[PTR] Alliance and Horde Darkshore questline SPOILERS

[Hallowseve17]

First off, I just want to say that I'm excited for the Battle for Darkshore, I'm not a big fan of Sylvanas, but the events of Darkshore could prove interesting and extremely crucial to the future plot. I must say though, I can't help but notice how inconsistent undeath has been recently, some characters have been questioning it and appear more fearful and hesitant about it, while others are embracing undeath like it's nothing. There has to be some sort of power at play. Call me crazy, but I'm looking forward to what's in store for the Forsaken in the ongoing and upcoming story.

[sillag]

bfa's story is complete garbage on all fronts but you have to give this one more than 5 minutes imo. yes sira is stupid but it would be amazing if delaryn doesn't turn on sylvanas by the end of the expansion. she might even be the one to kill her which would be a humiliating end as she apparently didn't remember her own life/undeath well enough to think that creating a version of herself would not backfire hugely upon her. and it would vindicate the night elves for one of them to get the killing blow. then maybe they'll be the alliance's dark rangers.

sure it may turn out to be just as stupid as it looks but for some reason i have the faintest hope that blizzard will actually do something here that isnt just fuck the night elves over completely. ive been wrong in the past though.

[Deleted]

boy oh boy.... personally I think ALL those Sylvanas haters are being manipulated and/or mindcontrolled by some evil entity. lets be honest, they all act alike as if they're being controlled by some hive mind :P

[Whitedragon]

Both of these are wrong. Delaryn wasn't just 'shaken' by the extermination of her people, the total lack of divine help and the fact that she failed to even make a moral stand. She was crushed. She cursed the phantasm of her lover, her goddess and her people and was just happy she would get to bleed out peacefully. The state she's resurrected in is exactly the state she dies in mentally, on top of the massive mental trauma of being undead. Unlike Sira, her turn actually makes sense and it's obviously not the end point of her character, making this whining even more out of place.

As for the Forsaken, since Vanilla their end motivation is to kill the living and the Scourge and institute their own world order. It's so emblematic of their race it's in both their intro cinematics.

But they did have some amount of divine help both leading into and during the burning, It's not like their warriors and priests lost all ability before hand, it's the fact that elune didn't save the tree solely with divine intervention I guess.... she also has the best example elune's wrath standing right in front of her, and has most likely witnessed other "miracles" in the past so it's not even a lack of proof, more she witnessed death, something she most likely has done MANY times before and Elune has bailed them out many times before as well so...

Lastly like others have said It's one thing to turn on your God and maybe seek to dismantle the faith because you believe it to be false, it's another thing to have her turn on her people just kuz... and even more unbelievable still that she joins up at the drop of a hat with the people who did all this to her in the first place, you can't even say she now values Sylvanas as some higher intellect because at that point in the lore Sylvanas's own commander admits that the horde is lousing badly, they are already showing sines of splintering internally again, and the person running things only really cares for her self.

[bowlink]

boy oh boy.... personally I think ALL those Sylvanas haters are being manipulated and/or mindcontrolled by some evil entity. lets be honest, they all act alike as if they're being controlled by some hive mind :P

same could be said about Sylvanas loves so your point is moot

[Daevelian]

boy oh boy.... personally I think ALL those Sylvanas haters are being manipulated and/or mindcontrolled by some evil entity. lets be honest, they all act alike as if they're being controlled by some hive mind :P

Eesh, you should probably see what her fanbase on here is like before drawing that conclusion. I'll just say that if you think the haters are a hive mind, you're in for an extremely rude shock when you see her fans.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one seeing that EVERYONE is obviously being played by "Death", including Sylvanas herself?

Blizzard is throwing all the hints literally on our faces. Even today we don't know the true motives of the Val'kyr for supporting Sylvanas, besides "we help you, we are free of the Lich King". And with the revelation that the Horde was manipulated by Death to put Sylvanas on the throne, it points out we still have much to learn about undeath.

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I understand the reasoning of "undeath changes your emotions" but when there are people like Faol and the Desolate Council that are Forsaken that aren't total dicks, it's really hard to believe that every single night elf that's raised just happens to immediately become a turncoat. Something as simple as, during the quest where you raise night elves into dark rangers some of them attack you upon being raised, would have been nice.

From the moment the Sylvanas warbringer came out, it was obvious Delaryn was going to be raised, so I'm not even shocked about that. I guess to really drive home the Arthas-Sylvanas parallel they need to have Delaryn serve Sylvanas for a time before turning on her.

Faol himself said he was a dick during the first stages of undeath. Only his believe on the Light permitted to overcome and redeem himself.

[Dagoth Ur]

Sira shoots you in the head and so stars warcraft new vegas.

Gallywix is actually hiding army of securitrons bellow Azshara. Game was rigged from the start.

[Lothaeryn]

Am I the only one seeing that EVERYONE is obviously being played by "Death", including Sylvanas herself?

Blizzard is throwing all the hints literally on our faces. Even today we don't know the true motives of the Val'kyr for supporting Sylvanas, besides "we help you, we are free of the Lich King". And with the revelation that the Horde was manipulated by Death to put Sylvanas on the throne, it points out we still have much to learn about undeath.

My bet is the Val'Kyr in Sylvanas' employ were actually not created by the Lich King originally, and were in the employ of Helya this entire time until they were enslaved by Arthas (which results in him learning how to create more); became "free" of the Lich King's control over them after wrath and proceeded to manipulate Sylvanas in Helya's name to claim more souls for their true master.

And since Helya has influence over the dead and they become thralls to her will, it would make sense why newly risen undead follow Sylvanas, who is technically Helya's unofficial champion.

[Deleted]

...

Faol himself said he was a dick during the first stages of undeath. Only his believe on the Light permitted to overcome and redeem himself.

Where does he say that? I know only that he said he did terrible things as mindless Scourge, which is .. kind of logical, because he was mindcontrolled like everyone else. Once he regained his will he continued on trying to do the work of the Light, finding Calia and trying to bring her hope back and all that.

[Zantos]

he his still right, you dont become instantly like your foe and side with thoose who killed you and tortured your mind just before this is stupid! some NE criminal or rebels, OK no problem but this... is stupide

Can't agree. I have seen similar plots before in the shows I watch, so it makes perfect sense to me. Here we have the big baddie (the ne), who is wicked strong. She is fanatical in her beliefs that, if her strength begins to fail her, her goddess will save her. After all, this is what she was lead to believe her entire life. Hundreds of years of reinforcement in this belief did little to hinder this though. Then here comes the horde challenging that thought. Trying to show her just how wrong she is, but she wont listen.

In common fashion, she must be beaten, brought down to a weakened state where she cannot deny that she isn't as strong as she was. Shown that her beliefs are fanatical in nature and hold no true bearing. Then she would be willing to accept what happened and turn on those who had lied to her all that time and used her for their own will.

Now, lets look at it from another point of view. We already know she goes overboard with how she believes in elune. Would it then not make sense for her to dive headfirst into revenge? We can only assume she feels and thinks just like Delaryn. That as she die, she feels anger, betrayal, and pain for her lost kin. Take how the time frame in how quickly the death and being brought back takes place. That is literally the only hang up anyone has with this story. "It happened so quickly". So? If anything, that means she would be More angry, More ready to turn on Elune, especially as she sees Tyrande doing nothing, yet again, to stop her dark rebirth.

In either scenario, the plot makes sense and people are just going "whut" at how quickly it unfolds. If she was dead for a week or so, no one would bat an eye.

[-aiko-]

Yikes, if this is really how it goes down then that is terribly disappointing. Those are weak as fuck reasons to betray their entire people and join the Forsaken. Sira feels betrayed by Tyrande because she didn't arrive in time to save her, so her response is to join the faction who killed her? What? And Delaryn feels strongly betrayed by Elune and so she decides she is Forsaken now? Um what? Are the Forsaken and the Horde at war with Elune? Why does joining the Forsaken make any sense for her character?

As with anything I'm willing to see where they go with it but unless there is some implied mind control, magical influence, or we have this series of events completely wrong then this is just bonkers. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Deleted]

So why do we only got Goblin and Forsaken there?
If Night Elves are messing things up in Kalimdor again then a full strike force should be send north to wipe them out.

[Deleted]

So why do we only got Goblin and Forsaken there?
If Night Elves are messing things up in Kalimdor again then a full strike force should be send north to wipe them out.

But the Horde wants to keep helping Talanji avenge her dad, so that's where the rest of them are.

[TickTickTick]

Remember there is a difference between the pre-cata and post-cata Forsaken.

The pre-cata ones are the ones risen by the LK, who broke free. They've been mind controlled until the breaking point.
The post-cata ones are the ones risen by the Val'kyr serving Sylvanas. There is really no reason to belive they are not mind controlled. I dont even think the val'kyr are serving Sylvanas.

The "death/undeath" expension is so overdue tbh. We know so little about it. Like, each race has a different way of afterlife, some dont even have it. There is no reason to believe that trolls' souls travel to Bwonsamdi cause they developed that way, and the kvaldir go to Helheim cause they developed that way, and other creatures to Great Dark Beyond etc etc.

There is one entity that has the absolute rule over the dead, I'm sure of it. Sylvanas, Bwonsamdi, Helya, Lich King, all the others, they just get a piece of the "dead" pie.

So in the end, that big death entity either allows the above mentioned characters to build their little armies because in the end they all belong to him/her/it anyway, or they dont even know that their armies belong to someone else. Remember Bwonsamdi being scared of his "boss".

Or it will turn out the val'kyr were still the servants of the lich king all this time and suddenly most of the new forsaken will become LK army. And we get Wotlk2.

[omeomorfismo]

Remember there is a difference between the pre-cata and post-cata Forsaken.

The pre-cata ones are the ones risen by the LK, who broke free. They've been mind controlled until the breaking point.
The post-cata ones are the ones risen by the Val'kyr serving Sylvanas. There is really no reason to belive they are not mind controlled. I dont even think the val'kyr are serving Sylvanas.

The "death/undeath" expension is so overdue tbh. We know so little about it. Like, each race has a different way of afterlife, some dont even have it. There is no reason to believe that trolls' souls travel to Bwonsamdi cause they developed that way, and the kvaldir go to Helheim cause they developed that way, and other creatures to Great Dark Beyond etc etc.

There is one entity that has the absolute rule over the dead, I'm sure of it. Sylvanas, Bwonsamdi, Helya, Lich King, all the others, they just get a piece of the "dead" pie.

So in the end, that big death entity either allows the above mentioned characters to build their little armies because in the end they all belong to him/her/it anyway, or they dont even know that their armies belong to someone else. Remember Bwonsamdi being scared of his "boss".

Or it will turn out the val'kyr were still the servants of the lich king all this time and suddenly most of the new forsaken will become LK army. And we get Wotlk2.

rotfl. litterally the first 10 missions are about this

[Kathranis]

Sylvanas murdered thousands of my people, but Elune/Tyrande didn't stop her, so now I'm going to help Sylvanas murder the rest of my people.

Jesus Christ.

Undeath isn't exactly murder. If Sylvanas wins then everyone is undead together forever.

[TickTickTick]

rotfl. litterally the first 10 missions are about this

Please tell me why would the undead who have been risen by the val'kyr pre-cata be mind-controlled and the ones who have been risen by the val'kyr post-cata would not? Do the val'kyr decide about it? "Hey, we are raising them for Sylvanas now! Let them have their will!"

There are many quests where you do something for someone, and at the end it turns out they lied to you and you were just a tool. Maybe they are not mind controlled literally, but certainly have a big bias towards the forsaken/Sylvanas into their minds the moment they are risen.

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Undeath isn't exactly murder. If Sylvanas wins then everyone is undead together forever.

Not forever. The Forsaken decay, which is the whole plight of that faction. Sylvanas mentions it before Garrosh in Silverpine, then again during the quest leading to Stormheim. Val'kyr seem to be a temporal bandaid. But the quantity is limited, and there's again one less now.

[Deleted]

What exactly is wrong with a race getting bad treatment. ( I mean game wise) after all the Night Elf players constantly talk about how they want to go pack to the feral warrior type as in warcraft 2 and 3. Well that's not just going to happen is it ? It's going to take some serious hurt for them to alter the culture they have developed since then and turn back to those ways. This is it. You asked for it Blizz is delivering.

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Yikes, if this is really how it goes down then that is terribly disappointing. Those are weak as fuck reasons to betray their entire people and join the Forsaken. Sira feels betrayed by Tyrande because she didn't arrive in time to save her, so her response is to join the faction who killed her? What? And Delaryn feels strongly betrayed by Elune and so she decides she is Forsaken now? Um what? Are the Forsaken and the Horde at war with Elune? Why does joining the Forsaken make any sense for her character?

As with anything I'm willing to see where they go with it but unless there is some implied mind control, magical influence, or we have this series of events completely wrong then this is just bonkers. Absolutely ridiculous.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but based on the context in the quest text it's not Tyrande that she is referring to it's Elune. Elune has abandoned them. Because she's corrupted.

[Hubbl3]

Please tell me why would the undead who have been risen by the val'kyr pre-cata be mind-controlled and the ones who have been risen by the val'kyr post-cata would not? Do the val'kyr decide about it? "Hey, we are raising them for Sylvanas now! Let them have their will!"

The Lich King mind controls them via the Helm of Damnation. The Val'kyr just rezz them.

But sure, Odyn also mind controls everyone his Val'kyr rezz.

Also Blizz said several times that there is no mind control involved with the Forsaken.