Mass poll/discussion: Would these changes positively or negatively change the game?

[Regalbeast]

These are the changes/reverts I'm proposing (which aren't new or groundbreaking at all):

-Bring back tier sets and get rid of Azerite armor
-Bring back vendors for gear (both PvE and PvP)
-Get rid of titanforging on gear

It's my opinion that these simple changes would drastically improve the game. The casino-like approach to gear is an abomination to the core gameplay that we used to have. It was clearly implemented to keep players in the game (sub #'s) due to the possibility of a "random" upgrade. What it really does is introduce ambiguity and frustration.

[Deleted]

I'm fine with that, especially the last 2 points. But if Blizz bring back tier sets, must be possible to get it from m+

[Cosmic Janitor]

Would essentially turn the game into FFXIV, which keeps hundreds of thousands of players busy by the sheer virtue of giving them a reason to do a dungeon a day and get some easy catchup gear that matches.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Get rid of secondary stats too.

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Get rid of secondary stats too and replace them with stuff like speed, leech, block, avoidance, etc.

[Lochton]

These are the changes/reverts I'm proposing (which aren't new or groundbreaking at all):

-Bring back tier sets and get rid of Azerite armor
-Bring back vendors for gear (both PvE and PvP)
-Get rid of titanforging on gear

It's my opinion that these simple changes would drastically improve the game. The casino-like approach to gear is an abomination to the core gameplay that we used to have. It was clearly implemented to keep players in the game (sub #'s) due to the possibility of a "random" upgrade. What it really does is introduce ambiguity and frustration.

First point won't happen till next expansion.
Second point, wouldn't mind for PvE.
Third point, no. I want that in but from World content.

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Get rid of secondary stats too.

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Get rid of secondary stats too and replace them with stuff like speed, leech, block, avoidance, etc.

What?

Get rid of crit? Haste? Mastery?

Versi is the one I would get rid of before any of the others.

[Foolicious]

I think the vendor gear is overhyped right now. Some semi famous people threw it out there and people think if they clear normal uldir they should be able to buy a normal uldir piece. Catch up gear like it usually was would be fine, but why dont you run mythic+ then? I dont get the point.

Titanforging - no discussion needed.

Tier sets should not be necessary if azerite gear would have worked out. seeing what they did with that - Bring tier sets back.
Also we were promised more transmog sets to make up for the loss of tier sets. All we got is an extra cloth set plus a mace. The rest is the usual stuff with mythic versions and hundred recolors minus our class sets.
I take another dead animal on the head of my hunter over the actual sets everytime. Even the warfront sets are just recolors of the pvp set.

But for me the most important part is missing: fix class gameplay.

This should be their first priority over everything else.

[Thetruth1400]

Catch up gear like it usually was would be fine, but why dont you run mythic+ then?

Because M+ are trash. Blizzard says the Island Expeditions are poorly designed because they're nothing but a "GO GO GO GO!" race to complete, yet that is exactly what M+ are and they turn the other cheek to that fact.

M+ only get done because of the easy gear rewarded. Take that away and put a vendor in place like the old valor system with a cap on weekly earnings and lets see how many people do M+ over other modes if the only thing they offer is a faster route to valor cap. My guess, it would stabilize and we'd see the same amount of people doing normal and heroic vs feeling they have to complete M+7 or higher just to keep on par.


As for the OP's suggestion, yeah, I'm fine with it as long as it has limitations. Tier set pieces should come only from raids again, and the other slots can go on the vendor as bad luck protection via the valor buy weekly capped system. As for titan forging, yeah that needed to go along time ago. You shouldn't have to farm a piece then farm the same piece but 5 - 10 ilvls higher because it's technically not the BiS.

[Derpleton]

I personally don't like M+ (though I'm fine with M0) due to the fact that it's just a rush and I prefer to relax and take things slowly in the games I play and M+ is very much counter to that. So that said, with heroics basically being entirely useless this Xpack and LFR only dropping 340 gear I've basically been forced into a "Raid or Die" situation when honestly the thing I enjoyed most from this Xpack and Legion was some fo the world content (doing World Bosses, WQ etc). So bringing back Badge Gear and Tier Sets that can be acquired via Queueable content would actually give me something to do other than see how fast I can click the unsub button.

[Chickat]

None of this has a chance of happening until 9.0.

I want MoP game systems with the best of Legion. Think about how good that would be.

[Hobbidaggy]

I voted Negative, only for the following reason. Having Tokens (assume you mean Valor style) will simply cause people to complain again about welfare gear being handed out to people. Yes you have to earn the tokens but that was easy. I was always at a very comfortable level and never had to worry about running out and that was from an extremely casual person due to work etc at the time.

I don’t mind TF gear. It doesn’t impact me in any way that is bad or good. If I get it yay if I don’t oh well. I think having teir is also good but I don’t think we should get “rid” of Azerite gear. If you do it will be a massive cluster f**k for those who have it and there will be a huge fall out from it. Ride the wave and just see how it grows and changes over the expansion. It won’t be like the way it is they will change things. Will it be in the next expac or a newer version? Probably not. I feel they have seen the negative impact it has had and they won’t bring it back. Something will replace it, something always does, and I don’t see it being this same system but replacing halfway through the expansion would be worse than it is now.

I’m not a solid Negative but I feel I’m more a negative than a positive. I’m not defending the current state. But I don’t think we can change the system while we are in the middle of it. It would be like telling people tomorrow we are changing the side of the road you have to drive on. It would be chaos and a hot mess

[beanman12345]

Not bad ideas at all, but they won't get rid of azerite gear till at least the next expansion.

[A Chozo]

First point would negatively change the game: we are in the age of M+ as a form of endgame PvE content - tier sets from raids would only mess with that.

Second point would be positive. Bad luck protection is a must in this RNG-intensive reward system.

Third point would negatively change the game for ME, since I mostly appreciate when a reward titanforges in my heroic raid runs. It's a bigger upgrade! Yay! I mean, I know that some players may feel angry when their friends get better upgrades for the same effort, but I kinda can't point out why. If the players feel that it's unfair that some LFR Raider rarely gets something that titanforges, should it really be removed?

[Mirishka]

These are the changes/reverts I'm proposing (which aren't new or groundbreaking at all):

-Bring back tier sets and get rid of Azerite armor
-Bring back vendors for gear (both PvE and PvP)
-Get rid of titanforging on gear

It's my opinion that these simple changes would drastically improve the game. The casino-like approach to gear is an abomination to the core gameplay that we used to have. It was clearly implemented to keep players in the game (sub #'s) due to the possibility of a "random" upgrade. What it really does is introduce ambiguity and frustration.

Hundreds of people have suggested these things.

The first doesn't matter, because Blizz isn't going to Shift-Delete Azerite armor - if anything they're going to double down on it to try and find the 'fun'.

As for gear vendors, I emphatically agree those need to return.

WF and TF were added to make killing a boss for the 100th time potentially rewarding. So you have the trinket it drops? Maybe one will drop with a socket, or at higher ilevel, etc. Meaning there was still the excitement (in theory) of a potential reward from stuff you've farmed to death. It wasn't a terrible idea, IMO, but the ilevel boosts too much (30+ is ridiculous) and adds RNG on top of RNG, in an expansion that is already overdosing on RNG (as was Legion).

[f3llyn]

These are the changes/reverts I'm proposing (which aren't new or groundbreaking at all):

-Bring back tier sets and get rid of Azerite armor
-Bring back vendors for gear (both PvE and PvP)
-Get rid of titanforging on gear

It's my opinion that these simple changes would drastically improve the game. The casino-like approach to gear is an abomination to the core gameplay that we used to have. It was clearly implemented to keep players in the game (sub #'s) due to the possibility of a "random" upgrade. What it really does is introduce ambiguity and frustration.

While I think these would be good changes for the game blizzard is pretty committed to azerite now and it's too late to go back.

[Powerogue]

It can be mixed.

-leaning towards good but I don't think tier sets were that great either
-also leaning towards good but with downsides
-hell no titanforging is a necessity to prevent people getting locked out of content due to community over-strict gear reqs.

[Irian]

Absofuckinglutely. OP I've been screaming into the void for that exact thing basically since SoO/WoD.

They never should have done away with the old model. It was the backbone of the game and gave me reasons to log in and want to do shit. The best gear should be available at a steady pace if you keep playing the game, or at least the gear a difficulty step below the best. Let players gear up at a fair and steady rate, stop treating us like fucking skinner box subjects and start giving us something substantial out of our time.

Legion was a decent success despite of its loot system, not because of it. People want to finish with a tier, they want that feeling of knowing exactly the path to take if they want to get into hardcore raiding, without these RNG bumps that turn the game into a "haves" and "have nots" pachinko machine.

But sadly, I've learned from the past years that Blizzard has absolutely no interest in bringing it back. I'm convinced the current developers don't play the game to any meaningful degree because they're insistent that these shots in the dark for RNG-focused pure drop-based loot is more "fun" somehow than having a goal and working towards it, like the fucking game was designed to encourage.

[melodramocracy]

Basically removing that much RNG would simply accelerate the pace at which folks unsub or don't play between patches, unless the acquisition from vendors was extremely time gated (thus yielding even more complaints). Hardly an optimal scenario for players or devs.

[TriggeredKid]

I agree with all, I see it as positive. They really need to add reforging back maybe not get rid of warforging/titanforging all together but make it not go past next tier Ilvl like LFR can only go to normal, normal to heroic, etc.

[Tuhokoura]

These are the changes/reverts I'm proposing (which aren't new or groundbreaking at all):

-Bring back tier sets and get rid of Azerite armor
-Bring back vendors for gear (both PvE and PvP)
-Get rid of titanforging on gear

It's my opinion that these simple changes would drastically improve the game. The casino-like approach to gear is an abomination to the core gameplay that we used to have. It was clearly implemented to keep players in the game (sub #'s) due to the possibility of a "random" upgrade. What it really does is introduce ambiguity and frustration.

-Get rid of titanforging on gear <- this, so much this.

[TriggeredKid]

It can be mixed.

-leaning towards good but I don't think tier sets were that great either
-also leaning towards good but with downsides
-hell no titanforging is a necessity to prevent people getting locked out of content due to community over-strict gear reqs.

This guy is the games future btw, over-strict gear reqs? lmao just make your own group if you can't meet requirements it's not hard at all, how's it fair for an LFR raid hero to get in and the first thing he loots warforgd 10 times?