[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Kazgrel]

That's actually pretty enlightening. I certainly wasn't frustrated before I installed ACT. In fact, the term "Ignorance is bliss" feels like it applies here.

Even without a parser, extremes stick out noticeably, whether it’s good dps or bad dps.

[Granyala]

BTW, whenever I play DPS, I cannot do so w/o ACT. It feels like tyring to play while being blindfolded. I need a parser, I need to see what I am doing and whether it is working or not.

Yes, that means getting a kick in my butt for being incompetent.

[dope_danny]

BTW, whenever I play DPS, I cannot do so w/o ACT. It feels like tyring to play while being blindfolded. I need a parser, I need to see what I am doing and whether it is working or not.

Yes, that means getting a kick in my butt for being incompetent.

Try playing red mage, you usually end up doing more ressing and healing than dps in the ivalice raids so its hard to care about dps when all the goddamn other dps are dead on the floor

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Even without a parser, extremes stick out noticeably, whether it’s good dps or bad dps.

summoner without a summon, dragoons that wont jump, red mages that never do the melee part of the rotation, black mage without leylines, ninja without mudra. A large amount of shitty dps seems to be 'i dont want complexity i want 4 buttons like guild wars 2'.

[Grable]

I'd probably just get upset looking at ACT so I decided not to install it, yet. Granted I'm not the best player, since my FFXIV playtime is on and off, I drop the game often when I get bored so my total playtime at max level and endgame content isn't that much, but I do my research on what to use and my rotation and just common sense. Seeing all the mistakes people do this plainly would hurt my motivation to continue with a difficult encounter.

Just 2 days ago I had a tank in Suzaku EX who couldn't tank swap without shirk. Disregarding the many times he failed at boss mechanics from getting one shot by Cremate(tankbuster) in first phase to failing colors and pull/push in later phase, running into aoe after tankswap, he had the nerve to start complaining about shirk. My Shirk wasn't off cooldown for every swap and I don't think he did it successfully even once without it. So after a few wipes I ask him to just use one enmity combo after provoke, after which the response was "just use shirk". It didn't help that this was a PF group with a random FC doing the kill "for a friend" and they obviously sided with him. After that I just left, no point.

[Wrecktangle]

So unless you have a third party program to tell you that you should be miserable, you won't be as miserable?

As @Advent said - there is merit to the the notion of "ignorance is bliss". However, I could never live like that. That's not who I am. I'm curious by nature and I don't like to do anything half-assed.

Once you're "enlightened" it's incredibly hard to look back. You notice things you never noticed before, etc. Pro's and cons as they say.

In 4 man runs, I'm really not bothered by shaving that extra 4.28 minutes off the run. Seriously, I don't give the tiniest crap imaginable that people min/max their per second efficiency in there.

It's not usually about the absolute time that gets me, it's always been about effort. If I go in with a group of like minded individuals (i.e. my static we cleared Skalla in 11 mins. If I went in with geared pugs, 15 mins (your 4 minute differential metric). If I went in with bad pugs, it was 20 minutes. If I went in with captain shield lob and crew it was 25-30 mins.

The difference of 11 mins to 20, isn't just 10 mins, it's literally twice as long, which does feel bad. Even worse when you get a full team of people whose sub's I do not pay. It becomes triple the time, or assuming good pugs, back to double the time.

It's a huge swing in competency. To make matters worse, it's TRIVIAL to push your AOE DPS buttons to speed it up and the content doesn't even fight back.

Here's what I'm getting at though. I don't mind the 15 minute run. That's fine. I mind the 20+ one. The one that shouldn't exist. Even with min ilvl, and a 0 DPS healer. DPS who know how to push oGCDs and spam AOE you will clear it in sub 20.

I'm a near exclusive Duty Finder player. I've said it before, I can count on one hand the number of notably bad experiences caused by players being clueless over the last 5 years. The people who seem to have massively incompetent players every other day? They tend to be the ones staring at parsers. I stand by my view that most people make themselves more miserable than necessary with these "useful tools." It's a bit of a longshot that you're going to fix a group's problem long term when they're going to drop at the end and you'll likely not see them again for long, if ever. Moreso if you use the block tool that's been given to you so you don't have to be grouped with bad players.

One major difference is what you may consider to be "notably bad experiences" and what I or others do. For instance - things I consider notably bad:

• Low DPS Healers
• DPS who do not AOE
• Tanks who do not pull in an intelligent fashion (too small for group, too big for group, too slow for group, intermittent speed/stop/starting)
• Low activity or "123ing"

It's quite clear it's a very particular subset of players who feel it's excessively necessary that everyone have parsers in their face in every form of content. I vehemently and completely disagree with that stance.

That's fine . I personally believe every player should be accountable for their performance in battle content. That's why I believe an unmitigated parser is the right way to go.

It is absolutely pathetic that you got banned for that.
Toxic trolling by incompetent players is encouraged and accepted but oh boy don't dare to use mathematical evidence to tell them that they are wrong.

Yeah I was surprised as well. Not "that" surprised, but still surprised.

[StrawberryZebra]

Even without a parser, extremes stick out noticeably, whether it’s good dps or bad dps.

The issue is that it leads to a huge spectrum of players not at either extreme to go largely unnoticed. I'm not going to be able to tell by looking if the MNK is only hitting 1-2-3 over and over and are doing less DPS than the healer or if they're carrying our groups DPS in a spectacular fashion.

Good group DPS stands out, but good individual performances can easilly get lost in the outcome. When at the end I'm going to be asked to give out a commendation to a player, I like to know which player(s) were doing well and which were getting carried.

A large amount of shitty dps seems to be 'i dont want complexity i want 4 buttons like guild wars 2'.

And yet, GW2 has a lot more depth hidden away in it's combat than FF14 does, even with a fraction of the buttons. That kind of organic play is great for the kind of open group play GW2 is looking to create. It's evidence that you can create compelling play with few buttons - Which is something I've been very critical of FF14 for.

[Faroth]

That's fine . I personally believe every player should be accountable for their performance in battle content. That's why I believe an unmitigated parser is the right way to go.

"Every player should be held accountable to my judgment."

Yeah, that doesn't sound elitist at all.

[Granyala]

"Every player should be held accountable to my judgment."

Yeah, that doesn't sound elitist at all.

Well I wouldn't go that far, I agree.
But I think if the group is wiping, parsers are vital in order to expose the weakest link and fix / remove it.

Yeah I know it sounds rather harsh but it's either that or abandon the run.

That hardly applies to 4man content though.

[Faroth]

Well I wouldn't go that far, I agree.
But I think if the group is wiping, parsers are vital in order to expose the weakest link and fix / remove it.

Yeah I know it sounds rather harsh but it's either that or abandon the run.

That hardly applies to 4man content though.

That's the distinction I've been referring to. Yes, they're a useful tool for progression groups and for raid leaders to identify where things need tightening up.

Having them up for everything at all times is inviting unnecessary frustration for the user and is all too often a tool for boasting rather than helping.

[lawow74]

Having them up for everything at all times is inviting unnecessary frustration for the user and is all too often a tool for boasting rather than helping.

If you had a personal parser, that would be one thing. But I hesitate to say they should allow linking of same as it would be used to try and brag/shame others and that would just lead to reports of harassment and more bans. I really doubt it would be worth the resources to add it. OOG programs do the job for them, as long as it stays a 'don't ask don't tell' situation, I say well and good enough.

Cos at the end of the day, the solution for 'bads' is and will always remain the same: form a static/circle of players to play with if they bother you that much.

[Granyala]

Having played WoW for a decade, I really don't see what all the damn fuss is about.
I can count the instances of unjustified DPS drama I have encountered on one hand. That includes LFR and LFG.

Yeah, if you half AFK and do 30% of what your class can do, you deserve to get called out on it.

[Sorrior]

If you have even a little experience running the content with a competent group, you don't need ACT to feel that players are crappy.
Esp as a healer when I get barely any DPS out because the tank is a friggin damage sponge or the DPS constantly stand in the fire.

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It is absolutely pathetic that you got banned for that.
Toxic trolling by incompetent players is encouraged and accepted but oh boy don't dare to use mathematical evidence to tell them that they are wrong.

Oh well, it's not as if people behave much differently IRL these days.

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To be fair: 95% of the random 4man runs are fine. Far from optimal but content is forgiving enough to see the party through.

Welll i just want to say if i see the healer dpsing it means to me i can pull more. So sometimes might be they are just pulling extra

[Granyala]

Welll i just want to say if i see the healer dpsing it means to me i can pull more. So sometimes might be they are just pulling extra

I don't care if a well geared and versed tank pulls with his ass to the next closed door. That's the way dungeons are meant to be played when overgeared.
I do care if you do it when the groups DPS is shit, stuff lives forever and you refuse to use CDs or have crappy gear because in that case, pulling more is ineffective.
Pulling less and letting the healer DPS would actually result in a faster run.

[Aruhen]

Extra points when the tank uses defensives when there's only 2-3 mobs at half health left after a huge pull as there's no need for it anymore.

[dope_danny]

I just remembered Encyclopedia Eorzea volume 2 comes out next month and was surprised they are still taking preorders. Did they print way more this time or do you think people just didnt check assuming another huge waiting list like last time?

[Katchii]

Having played WoW for a decade, I really don't see what all the damn fuss is about.
I can count the instances of unjustified DPS drama I have encountered on one hand. That includes LFR and LFG.

Yeah, if you half AFK and do 30% of what your class can do, you deserve to get called out on it.

Completely agree. If you're being nothing but an anchor for your group, regardless of what content it is, you should get called out for it, even if the run is going OK. If it's intentional because you just don't care and are watching Netflix on your other screen, that's your fault and you should get called out, if it's unintentional and you just don't know what you're doing...you should get called out and accept help if it's given, or ask for help, even if it's just someone pointing you to an online guide because you can't fix the problem if you don't know it's there.

That said, you should call people out as respectfully as possible, to figure out why their performance is so low. Once you find out why, deal with it accordingly.

[dope_danny]

Man, i make a nice mix/playlist of music for autumn/winter time and adding some new stuff in from games like Night in the Woods i got to Heavenswards OST and boy do i miss that expansion. Like i don't hate Stormblood but for some reason Heavensward just makes me super nostalgic in the same vein as Wrath of the Lich king does.

[Graeham]

I enjoyed both expansions.

Yet Heavensward rubbed me the wrong way at times due to eroding away much of Ishgard's grit. Stormblood, meanwhile, soured me whenever we had to interact with the Ala Mhigans. I do like Fordola and Arenvald though.

[Granyala]

That said, you should call people out as respectfully as possible, to figure out why their performance is so low. Once you find out why, deal with it accordingly.

Absolutely, the more polite you are, the bigger the chance that they are open for input. If you go "lawl why you so bad, nub?!!11" you don't have to be surprised if they lock down immediately and even the wisdom of the ages falls onto deaf ears.

[Trebdor]

Long time player here. I'm gonna be a bit mean, so entertain me if you will.

A lot of people bring up the sheer incompetence of FFXIV players, but seem to forget the other end of the stick. I've raided through the Omega savage raids and part of HW, and I think the raiding has gotten worst. Parsing has enabled some of the worst behavior I have witnessed in a MMO, where even the harder content isn't that difficult.

North America and Europe seems to really like this idea of "fuck you got mine", often at the detriment of the group. You will find tons of raid groups and pick up Party Finders who have little to no respect for other players, or standards. Players joining clear parties hoping to get carried without putting in any of the work, raid groups who all want to play "the meta" to increase their parses even if they're not good, raid groups who have these expectations such as clearing content ASAP and requiring ridiculous parses.

There's this one optimization discord community that englobates what is wrong with the raiding community in this game currently. The community is full of these people whom I can't describe other than "sad assholes", sitting on Discord all day bragging about how good they are with their 99 parses, and whoever doesn't have those 99 parses are "shitters". These are the players who write guides and set the tone.

There was a thread recently on Reddit about how this community stalks players in the game, because they have gray numbers on FFLogs, join their parties to screw with them to get a reaction to laugh at. You really need to be pathetic to be one of the best players in the game, and this is the example you set. The people running this community don't seem to care; the people who support them on Patreon are in part the ones doing this. I don't know what they're supporting financially, other than being part of a clique; their website looks like garbage, some of their resources are terrible. Maybe I'm more familiar with WoW and I'm used to seeing these really amazing and well laid out resources for raiding, often for free.

Upon getting called out, the admins bragged about how toxic they are "ironically", and looking down on the people who complained, going as far as trying to witch hunt some of them.

On one end, you have the most lazy/uncaring players who don't even seem to care that they're playing badly, and you can't call them out unless you want to get banned. On the other end, you have the worst kind of elitism that kills enthusiasm for even trying to learn the game's harder content, and that doesn't get punished for it, because it "happens outside the game".