Does Blizzard still think personal loot should be forced in BFA for EVERYBODY?

[La]

I mean, our raid group has basically all, more or less, gotten most of the stuff that we need, barring trinkets. So, you know, I don't see the problem with it, since our ilvls are more or less the same, with M+ to help fill the gaps. Probably a lot of undergeared officers out there, though. Tragic, really.

[kamuimac]

I mean, our raid group has basically all, more or less, gotten most of the stuff that we need, barring trinkets. So, you know, I don't see the problem with it, since our ilvls are more or less the same, with M+ to help fill the gaps. Probably a lot of undergeared officers out there, though. Tragic, really.

you dont have any empathy for poor people who were kissing officers asses for years now , all the hard work they put in to be put ahead of rest of team on gear priority wasted

how dare you not show them any sympathy

[Marani]

I've had someone literally say, "I got it, so, therefore, this item is mines" and proceeds to disenchant it, and once I kicked that person, everyone got mad and left because I thought she was being a douchebag.

In a pug if no other rule was announced at the start, in my opinion it's fine to do whatever you want with the loot you get. That includes disenchanting to me, though I personally probably wouldn't do it in such a public way, because that's kinda mean. Tbh I mostly expect this to happen if that person mostly outgears the content. Now if they outgear it, they might actually be mostly here to farm some mats and have some fun, and to me that's just fine. Yes, if they were also to trade the items they don't need that would be super nice, but I don't really expect them to do it either. I'm here for the fun, they are here for the fun, I might get an item on the next boss or the one after and they help me get there, so it'll be fine. *shrug* If they make a thousand gold for that crystal, good for them? Maybe I just don't care for loot enough...

I appreciate you taking a more leveled approach this time, but I would like to point out one think: do you have any proof of your claim here? Can you really claim to know that "too many" guilds using master loot abused it? And how?

I'm not the one you were asking, but I always felt like rightout abuse was rather rare. However unintentionally playing favorites ("A is a good player and should get a lot of gear!" -> the gap between A and the rest widens even more and people start getting mad, or even the other way round "A is a good player and doesn't need the loot!" -> A and his friends are getting really mad, because he feels like he's carrying the group and doesn't get rewarded) or causing drama does happen and it can feel shitty for all parties involved.

The truth is, there is not always a right or wrong answer for who should get an item. Player A is there every week, every raid and hasn't gotten an upgrade in a while, Player B might have only been in the guild for a month or so, but he's also been consistent since and it's a really big upgrade for him, Player C is a bit more inconsistent, but you really want him in on the next boss you progress (because his class can help out a lot) and it's a decent upgrade for him.

IMO there's a case to be made for either person (long term commitment should be rewarded, biggest personal gain and thus raid dps gain, biggest benefit for the next challenging boss) and when there's a decision to be made that isn't clear-cut that's usually when arguments start. ("But it's a much smaller upgrade for A, why don't you give it B or C?" "But B has just joined the raid and is getting all the gear! That's unfair!" "But C has missed two raids last month! He shouldn't get loot!") And now even if everyone is fine with the decision at that point in time, imagine the player getting loot leaving the guild a week later... And now imagine you are the loot master who made that "wrong decision" and people telling you that was obvious from the start...

I don't think perso loot really fixes all of that, but there's some element of randomness involved that shifts the blame from the evil masterlooters... I always found masterloot rather stressful and even though most of my guild mates are rather reasonable, loot still caused a lot of drama over the years.

edit: There's quite some more cases, that always are questionable: Trials not getting any loot or trials getting loot, who gets the awesome mount especially if it's clear you can't get it for all the raiders, etc pp

[Rhade1337]

Because i'm playing my char and not some1 else? It's my luck on a boss to get a piece of gear. Each player contributes to kill a boss so i do my job i get rewarded right? System is fine, just deal with it!
How many times did some1 kill a boss until they get a piece of gear, and on those kills how many times the item you needed drop and someone else got it and after a few kills that players leave the guild? That case happens all the time.
So again PL is a good thing, ML was aids. That's my opinion and no one here will change it!

[Deleted]

I'm not the one you were asking, but I always felt like rightout abuse was rather rare. However unintentionally playing favorites ("A is a good player and should get a lot of gear!" -> the gap between A and the rest widens even more and people start getting mad, or even the other way round "A is a good player and doesn't need the loot!" -> A and his friends are getting really mad, because he feels like he's carrying the group and doesn't get rewarded) or causing drama does happen and it can feel shitty for all parties involved.

The truth is, there is not always a right or wrong answer for who should get an item. Player A is there every week, every raid and hasn't gotten an upgrade in a while, Player B might have only been in the guild for a month or so, but he's also been consistent since and it's a really big upgrade for him, Player C is a bit more inconsistent, but you really want him in on the next boss you progress (because his class can help out a lot) and it's a decent upgrade for him.

IMO there's a case to be made for either person (long term commitment should be rewarded, biggest personal gain and thus raid dps gain, biggest benefit for the next challenging boss) and when there's a decision to be made that isn't clear-cut that's usually when arguments start. ("But it's a much smaller upgrade for A, why don't you give it B or C?" "But B has just joined the raid and is getting all the gear! That's unfair!" "But C has missed two raids last month! He shouldn't get loot!") And now even if everyone is fine with the decision at that point in time, imagine the player getting loot leaving the guild a week later... And now imagine you are the loot master who made that "wrong decision" and people telling you that was obvious from the start...

I don't think perso loot really fixes all of that, but there's some element of randomness involved that shifts the blame from the evil masterlooters... I always found masterloot rather stressful and even though most of my guild mates are rather reasonable, loot still caused a lot of drama over the years.

edit: There's quite some more cases, that always are questionable: Trials not getting any loot or trials getting loot, who gets the awesome mount especially if it's clear you can't get it for all the raiders, etc pp

I have never seen or used gear as a reward for playing good. Gear is a means to an end; killing bosses. So when my guild could use LC we gave items based on who got the biggest upgrade and what would help the raid the most. We did however not neccessarily give the very best items to people who we deemed unreliable, maybe they didn't show up every raid or they were the last 1-2 people we had to fit into the raid to get our 20, and they often parsed very bad because of lack of skill rather than gear, then the gear would be somewhat wasted in their hands.

Since we're a pretty "casual" mythic guild with two raid nights a week, currently at 3/8M I don't mind PL at all, we don't really "need" any gear cause we're not ever gonna wipe on damage checks, we're gonna wipe cause we're stupid, so it's just nice to not have to bother with master loot.

[Leodric]

you dont have any empathy for poor people who were kissing officers asses for years now , all the hard work they put in to be put ahead of rest of team on gear priority wasted

how dare you not show them any sympathy

I actually feel pity for you. It really has to suck playing a MMO without being capable of building up a genuine and friendly connection to other players, thus enjoying the game to the fullest. But I guess showing respects towards other players equals to kissing ass.

[klaps_05]

Most upvoted/gilded comment on reddit was about giving players choice/control, but on mmochampion less choice is better, along with random pvp gear, random azerite gear, etc.

[kamuimac]

Where was the toxicity? Everyone in the guild I'm in and every good player in this game wants master looter back. Rng is a virus that kills the game and is probably a huge reason why the game's popularity has been declining so fast. But its true the majority of the players is made up by people who will never set their foot inside an serious raiding guild. And since they're the majority ofcourse blizzard is going to cater to their every need. I wonder why all the hardcore players have ditched the scene? It might have something to do with that they removed everything thats hardcore about the game.

No but in all honestly you only say that because you have also never experienced how effective master loot was, the most perfect tool in the game for managing people in the guild. You want to get the best gear? Sure! You just have to prove that you're the best player. Easy stuff!

and yet in all of Q&A since begining of BfA they didnt touch the subject of PL even once.

clearly system is working more then ok and you and many others are stuck in past instead move on and forget ML ever existed since its not coming back

[Deleted]

In a pug if no other rule was announced at the start, in my opinion it's fine to do whatever you want with the loot you get. That includes disenchanting to me, though I personally probably wouldn't do it in such a public way, because that's kinda mean. Tbh I mostly expect this to happen if that person mostly outgears the content. Now if they outgear it, they might actually be mostly here to farm some mats and have some fun, and to me that's just fine. Yes, if they were also to trade the items they don't need that would be super nice, but I don't really expect them to do it either. I'm here for the fun, they are here for the fun, I might get an item on the next boss or the one after and they help me get there, so it'll be fine. *shrug* If they make a thousand gold for that crystal, good for them? Maybe I just don't care for loot enough...



I'm not the one you were asking, but I always felt like rightout abuse was rather rare. However unintentionally playing favorites ("A is a good player and should get a lot of gear!" -> the gap between A and the rest widens even more and people start getting mad, or even the other way round "A is a good player and doesn't need the loot!" -> A and his friends are getting really mad, because he feels like he's carrying the group and doesn't get rewarded) or causing drama does happen and it can feel shitty for all parties involved.

The truth is, there is not always a right or wrong answer for who should get an item. Player A is there every week, every raid and hasn't gotten an upgrade in a while, Player B might have only been in the guild for a month or so, but he's also been consistent since and it's a really big upgrade for him, Player C is a bit more inconsistent, but you really want him in on the next boss you progress (because his class can help out a lot) and it's a decent upgrade for him.

IMO there's a case to be made for either person (long term commitment should be rewarded, biggest personal gain and thus raid dps gain, biggest benefit for the next challenging boss) and when there's a decision to be made that isn't clear-cut that's usually when arguments start. ("But it's a much smaller upgrade for A, why don't you give it B or C?" "But B has just joined the raid and is getting all the gear! That's unfair!" "But C has missed two raids last month! He shouldn't get loot!") And now even if everyone is fine with the decision at that point in time, imagine the player getting loot leaving the guild a week later... And now imagine you are the loot master who made that "wrong decision" and people telling you that was obvious from the start...

I don't think perso loot really fixes all of that, but there's some element of randomness involved that shifts the blame from the evil masterlooters... I always found masterloot rather stressful and even though most of my guild mates are rather reasonable, loot still caused a lot of drama over the years.

edit: There's quite some more cases, that always are questionable: Trials not getting any loot or trials getting loot, who gets the awesome mount especially if it's clear you can't get it for all the raiders, etc pp

Nicely explained in a way i can totally agree with, I'm not wild about PL either, but atleast with PL you cant get screwed over anymore by other players, just by blizzards poor rng system

[Deleted]

and yet in all of Q&A since begining of BfA they didnt touch the subject of PL even once.

clearly system is working more then ok and you and many others are stuck in past instead move on and forget ML ever existed since its not coming back

It will in classic tho so I'm not that stressed about tbh. But my luck is proof that the system isnt working in the current version. I'm literally behind everyone in my guild even tho I've probably run like 50 more M10 then the guys thats 2nd. Have never gotten loot from bonus rolls so far, And are still using 340 shoulders 370 chest and 355 helm. And I've been doing M10 since it was avaible aswell as 4/8 in mythic raiding. The system is shit because there is literally no RNG protection that they have stated, Only for the M10 weekly chest maybe. But here I am still without a 385 azerite piece for the 6th week in a row? or is it 7?

How can one defend a system where the only factor is luck is the question. Its illogical, some time and effort should atleast be accountable not just pure luck.

[JackWest]

Nicely explained in a way i can totally agree with, I'm not wild about PL either, but atleast with PL you cant get screwed over anymore by other players, just by blizzards poor rng system

I think I mentioned it in another topic, but I prefer to be "screwed over" by people. Why? Because I can stop it at any given point. I cant do anything about getting fucked by the system

[OreoLover]

"I'm screwed because others had better RNG" could be fixed with a nerf to all top-end (bonus roll, extra stats) RNG. Pair that with building quick, consistent RNG protection.

- Fewer items overall
- Drops more relevant
- Luck more special
- "I'm unlucky!" reduced

[Adlian]

Personal loot in Mythic raiding is such a dumb idea. Their precious trials are forced to trade the items or they need to look for a new guild. Bring back ML and let the guilds decide who deserve the item... stop trying to play a god in your game.

[Ilnez]

yes - so deal with it

this is literaly the best change that happend to the game

and only ones against it are those who abused others

No and you're an idiot.

My brother got 395 bracers last night off a boss, they're not even an upgrade for him. He couldn't trade them to me (45 ilvl upgrade) or the other warrior (30 ilvl upgrade). They had my BiS stats on them as an HPal. So they got sharded. It's fucking horseshit.

The only people against ML are the people at the absolute bottom or the raiding guild pool who join guilds to carry them through content because they can't be bothered to pug and people with extreme lootwhorish tendencies.

[Nnyco]

No and you're an idiot.

My brother got 395 bracers last night off a boss, they're not even an upgrade for him. He couldn't trade them to me (45 ilvl upgrade) or the other warrior (30 ilvl upgrade). They had my BiS stats on them as an HPal. So they got sharded. It's fucking horseshit.

The only people against ML are the people at the absolute bottom or the raiding guild pool who join guilds to carry them through content because they can't be bothered to pug and people with extreme lootwhorish tendencies.

bullshit, just the strengh alone would be an upgrade, even if the secondaries are not optimal

[Ilnez]

It will in classic tho so I'm not that stressed about tbh. But my luck is proof that the system isnt working in the current version. I'm literally behind everyone in my guild even tho I've probably run like 50 more M10 then the guys thats 2nd. Have never gotten loot from bonus rolls so far, And are still using 340 shoulders 370 chest and 355 helm. And I've been doing M10 since it was avaible aswell as 4/8 in mythic raiding. The system is shit because there is literally no RNG protection that they have stated, Only for the M10 weekly chest maybe. But here I am still without a 385 azerite piece for the 6th week in a row? or is it 7?

How can one defend a system where the only factor is luck is the question. Its illogical, some time and effort should atleast be accountable not just pure luck.

Because, contrary to you and I, there are people like him who are 7/8 H and 1/8 M with a 385 weapon who bought M+ carries every week and have full Azerite @ 385 and are ilvl 376. Oh and they do 10k DPS on heroic Fetid BTW

Meanwhile I consistently parse upper purple/gold and I'm ilvl 365 on my ret.

- - - Updated - - -

bullshit, just the strengh alone would be an upgrade, even if the secondaries are not optimal

I saw his sim, you're wrong. His 385 bracers have a socket and BiS stats. Welcome to Arms Warrior.

I think he knows how to play warrior:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...k#difficulty=4

[Nnyco]

Because, contrary to you and I, there are people like him who are 7/8 H and 1/8 M with a 385 weapon who bought M+ carries every week and have full Azerite @ 385 and are ilvl 376. Oh and they do 10k DPS on heroic Fetid BTW

Meanwhile I consistently parse upper purple/gold and I'm ilvl 365 on my ret.

- - - Updated - - -



I saw his sim, you're wrong. His 385 bracers have a socket and BiS stats. Welcome to Arms Warrior.

I think he knows how to play warrior:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...k#difficulty=4

see you didnt say they had a socket so still just bullshit talkin

[Ilnez]

see you didnt say they had a socket so still just bullshit talkin

I honestly forgot until I armory'ed him tbh, just to make sure I wasn't talking out my ass and he wasn't using the 395. My bad about that, just remember it being a big meme in Discord.

[Deleted]

I honestly forgot until I armory'ed him tbh, just to make sure I wasn't talking out my ass and he wasn't using the 395. My bad about that, just remember it being a big meme in Discord.

But but but ... he will be able to trade the next 395 in that slot for sure! How is that not a comfort to you guys is beyond me ... working as intended.

[burek]

It will in classic tho so I'm not that stressed about tbh. But my luck is proof that the system isnt working in the current version. I'm literally behind everyone in my guild even tho I've probably run like 50 more M10 then the guys thats 2nd. Have never gotten loot from bonus rolls so far, And are still using 340 shoulders 370 chest and 355 helm. And I've been doing M10 since it was avaible aswell as 4/8 in mythic raiding. The system is shit because there is literally no RNG protection that they have stated, Only for the M10 weekly chest maybe. But here I am still without a 385 azerite piece for the 6th week in a row? or is it 7?

340? Bullshit. No loot from 15 bonus rolls? Bullshit. And why didn't someone trade you theirs? Good luck in classic, 2 items per boss for 40 people, you are gonna gear much faster. Let me know when everyone in your guild completes their tier set, 2 expansions from now.