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  1. #1

    Is university a necessity for a good life in the U.S?

    This is just out of sheer curiousity to compare how it is to here in Sweden.

    Over here, university is good, but not really a necessity for a good life. Mostly for two reasons;
    1) Taxes are so high here, that an average university degree nets you only about 5-10 000 SEK more than a high school degree, or at most 15 000. Or, in American terms, 547 to 1643 dollars. My two friends, where one is a doctor and one is an engineer only makes about 8000 more than me, after taxes, who only have a high school diploma and works as an IT technician.

    2) There aren't really any jobs that pays poorly here. Even a cleaner, server and cashier earn 1752 dollars after taxes.

    We don't really have college education either, so we lack that middle-ground between high school and uni. We have something called "högskola", but that's basically a university without it's own scientific branch. The level of education is still the same as uni.

    I'm only high school-educated, and I make a tiny bit more than the average in Sweden, 29800 before tax or 3264 dollars. I work as an IT technician and graphical layout artist.
    Personally I did try uni studies, but how it was shaped wasn't for me at all. I can't handle that kind of freedom under responsibility, and most of all I need to be able to raise my hand, get the teacher to come to me and help, when I'm in trouble. Something uni doesn't offer, sadly.

    I get the impression that uni, or at least college, is more of a necessity in the states though, to get a decent life. Am I wrong about that?
    To me, it seems like unless you are at least college educated, you are doomed to flip burgers at Wendy's. Hopefully I'm wrong on that.

  2. #2
    Yes, a degree usually helps you get a higher paying job and this is especially true as you get older as older people jobs like managing require degrees usually.

    Taxes are screwed up here as the more money you make the less you pay in taxes as a ratio, meaning we keep more of our money.

    And if you have very good grades you can get into a college like Harvard or Yale and party with people who in later years will fix you and your business up with contracts worth millions.

    That said if you decide to become a trades person, say an electrician and you're able to join a union in a big city like Los Angeles you'll make a very good living. Some construction people make 6 figures a year.
    Last edited by Independent voter; 2018-10-11 at 08:23 AM.
    .

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  3. #3
    Depends it really does depend.

    My dad never went to university and he started of as a able seamen in the Royal Navy and left to become a postman and climbed his way to become a manager then he emigrated to the US and got a position at Vanguard investment firm at the very lowest position and now he is the number 2 guy there and like i said he never went to university.

    But then he had life experience and that means alot no matter where you live and all your certificates dont mean shit if you cant work under pressure or aint good at thinking on your feet.

    In my own experience i learnt life really does give you chances but you need to know when to grab them and throw caution out of the window cause those chances dont come along again.

  4. #4
    Can't say about the U.S. but assume it's like that everywhere.... It all depends on your age!

    Let's say you are mid/end twenties then it doesn't realy matter if you went to univerity income wise. You'll be around the same eventually and you might have earned more until people from the uni catch up to you.

    BUT things change drastically while you reach the fourties of age. That's usually when people that went to the universaty overtake you in huge steps. That doesn't mean you're not living a good life but your income will be a lot lower.

    Also numbers like 3264 dollars a month don't matter if you are not comparing them relative to what you can buy / afford for that ammount.
    For a single in a two room flat that amount might be totally fine to live a happy life but if you have a family with two kids living in a popular urban area that amount will not be keepping you afloat.
    Last edited by Raakel; 2018-10-11 at 09:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Raakel View Post
    Can't say about the U.S. but assume it's like that everywhere.... It all depends on your age!

    Let's say you are mid/end twenties then it doesn't realy matter if you went to univerity income wise. You'll be around the same eventually and you might have earned more until people from the uni catch up to you.

    BUT things change drastically while you reach the fourties of age. That's usually when people that went to the universaty overtake you in huge steps. That doesn't mean you're not living a good life but your income will be a lot lower.
    Depends on which uni you go to and what kind of job you get. I am 27 and earning already so much (six figures in UK) that guys with only a high school degree will never do unless they become an entrepreneur and start managing their own business. And my job is not even one of the hotter ones (lawyer, banker, doctor, IT, etc), I am just an economist.

  6. #6
    The answer is an unqualified 'no'. Of course your acceptance of that will vary greatly by what you consider a 'good life'. If you think you are doomed to unskilled service industry work without a college degree you are wrong, because there is so much well-paying opportunity in professional trades. Something started going downhill in this country when it became stigmatized somehow to be an electrician, a plumber, a welder, a carpenter, etc.

  7. #7
    I think in most places the answer would be a no - but, it increases your chances. Not much is a guarantee for anything, and a good life has as many definitions as there are people

  8. #8
    Uni degree makes it easier. You can join a corporation and casually climb the ladders until mid management, earn six figures and be well off. Higher than that is MBA territory usually (in the USA at least, at other places you need to be McKinsey/GS alumni or something like that).

    Without uni you can always be an entrepreneur, many people are doing exactly that and earning ridiculous money. But that is more risky and difficult, and accessing to finances to expand your business is also harder without a uni degree. And requires special soft skills which many people do not have. For example, a Google software engineer might have even difficulties with starting up a conversation. Those guys would stand no chance to earn decently without a uni degree, as they could never manage other people.

    The rule of thumb is, the worse social skills you have, the more you need a uni degree to be well off.
    Last edited by csucsup; 2018-10-11 at 10:06 AM.

  9. #9
    some sort of schooling past high school helps, though i feel like trade schooling is the best route for many people. you can make a good living right out of school and have little to no debt compared to many 4 year schools. Welders, mechanics, electricians, many tradesmen make much more money than people with 4 year or even some grad school degrees.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Raakel View Post
    Can't say about the U.S. but assume it's like that everywhere.... It all depends on your age!

    Let's say you are mid/end twenties then it doesn't realy matter if you went to univerity income wise. You'll be around the same eventually and you might have earned more until people from the uni catch up to you.

    BUT things change drastically while you reach the fourties of age. That's usually when people that went to the universaty overtake you in huge steps. That doesn't mean you're not living a good life but your income will be a lot lower.

    Also numbers like 3264 dollars a month don't matter if you are not comparing them relative to what you can buy / afford for that ammount.
    For a single in a two room flat that amount might be totally fine to live a happy life but if you have a family with two kids living in a popular urban area that amount will not be keepping you afloat.
    Even at higher age, the income differential isn't that much different here because of how our tax system works. The more you earn = the more you pay in taxes, and it increases fast and hard.
    At the moment, someone who earns double the wage as me earns less than 50% more post-tax.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknightish View Post
    This is just out of sheer curiousity to compare how it is to here in Sweden.

    Over here, university is good, but not really a necessity for a good life. Mostly for two reasons;
    1) Taxes are so high here, that an average university degree nets you only about 5-10 000 SEK more than a high school degree, or at most 15 000. Or, in American terms, 547 to 1643 dollars. My two friends, where one is a doctor and one is an engineer only makes about 8000 more than me, after taxes, who only have a high school diploma and works as an IT technician.

    2) There aren't really any jobs that pays poorly here. Even a cleaner, server and cashier earn 1752 dollars after taxes.

    We don't really have college education either, so we lack that middle-ground between high school and uni. We have something called "högskola", but that's basically a university without it's own scientific branch. The level of education is still the same as uni.

    I'm only high school-educated, and I make a tiny bit more than the average in Sweden, 29800 before tax or 3264 dollars. I work as an IT technician and graphical layout artist.
    Personally I did try uni studies, but how it was shaped wasn't for me at all. I can't handle that kind of freedom under responsibility, and most of all I need to be able to raise my hand, get the teacher to come to me and help, when I'm in trouble. Something uni doesn't offer, sadly.

    I get the impression that uni, or at least college, is more of a necessity in the states though, to get a decent life. Am I wrong about that?
    To me, it seems like unless you are at least college educated, you are doomed to flip burgers at Wendy's. Hopefully I'm wrong on that.
    This is probably good anecdotal evidince of why the highly subsidised welfare state of Scandinavian countries is a net loss for the society. What's the point of putting yourself through years of university if it only results in a small income increase against those that have only completed high-school education. Which would lead me to suspect that emigration rates would increase, which may result in the burden of taxation being shifted to those in lower income brackets. This is completely my opinion and though, I'm not basing this on data

    As to your point about university/college being a necessity in US and/or other countries... It is and it isn't. It all depends on the individual and their motivations. For some professions it's a necessity. Otherwise trades are a viable alternative (and probably net more income in the long run) and with the rise of social media, every second hot 18-30 year old girl can post shit in instagram and get paid for it

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    This is probably good anecdotal evidince of why the highly subsidised welfare state of Scandinavian countries is a net loss for the society. What's the point of putting yourself through years of university if it only results in a small income increase against those that have only completed high-school education. Which would lead me to suspect that emigration rates would increase, which may result in the burden of taxation being shifted to those in lower income brackets. This is completely my opinion and though, I'm not basing this on data

    As to your point about university/college being a necessity in US and/or other countries... It is and it isn't. It all depends on the individual and their motivations. For some professions it's a necessity. Otherwise trades are a viable alternative (and probably net more income in the long run) and with the rise of social media, every second hot 18-30 year old girl can post shit in instagram and get paid for it
    Well, I mean, I didn't want to make it sound THAT bad. You will still live a better life, as it still gives you access to faster savings and such. It's just that you can't get filthy rich like you possibly can in the U.S. You won't run around with 5 mansions, 10 cars and 20 housemaids, but you will still probably own a pretty nice house by the coast or in the archipelago and a Tesla car, with a newly renovated bathroom and such. The main difference is that your average high school ed. can do that too, it will just take longer.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknightish View Post
    Well, I mean, I didn't want to make it sound THAT bad. You will still live a better life, as it still gives you access to faster savings and such. It's just that you can't get filthy rich like you possibly can in the U.S. You won't run around with 5 mansions, 10 cars and 20 housemaids, but you will still probably own a pretty nice house by the coast or in the archipelago and a Tesla car, with a newly renovated bathroom and such. The main difference is that your average high school ed. can do that too, it will just take longer.
    Doesn't exactly sound conducive for striving to achieve the maximum out of life

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Doesn't exactly sound conducive for striving to achieve the maximum out of life
    I think it's just our societies having different mindsets. Correct mf if I'm wrong, but if you're American I get the sense that the average American is a lot more individualistic, while the general Swede/Scandinavian is much more of a collectivist, where we help each and everybody around us reach success, even if it means we have to sacrifice some personal.

    We are all affected by the Jante law;

    You're not to think you are anything special.
    You're not to think you are as good as we are.
    You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
    You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.
    You're not to think you know more than we do.
    You're not to think you are more important than we are.
    You're not to think you are good at anything.
    You're not to laugh at us.
    You're not to think anyone cares about you.
    You're not to think you can teach us anything.
    It has shaped our mindset and society immensely. Nothing wrong with individual thinking, as the U.S seems great if that's how your boat floats, but it's just not our thing.

  15. #15
    No bit it helps a lot.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknightish View Post
    This is just out of sheer curiousity to compare how it is to here in Sweden.

    Over here, university is good, but not really a necessity for a good life. Mostly for two reasons;
    1) Taxes are so high here, that an average university degree nets you only about 5-10 000 SEK more than a high school degree, or at most 15 000. Or, in American terms, 547 to 1643 dollars. My two friends, where one is a doctor and one is an engineer only makes about 8000 more than me, after taxes, who only have a high school diploma and works as an IT technician.

    2) There aren't really any jobs that pays poorly here. Even a cleaner, server and cashier earn 1752 dollars after taxes.

    We don't really have college education either, so we lack that middle-ground between high school and uni. We have something called "högskola", but that's basically a university without it's own scientific branch. The level of education is still the same as uni.

    I'm only high school-educated, and I make a tiny bit more than the average in Sweden, 29800 before tax or 3264 dollars. I work as an IT technician and graphical layout artist.
    Personally I did try uni studies, but how it was shaped wasn't for me at all. I can't handle that kind of freedom under responsibility, and most of all I need to be able to raise my hand, get the teacher to come to me and help, when I'm in trouble. Something uni doesn't offer, sadly.

    I get the impression that uni, or at least college, is more of a necessity in the states though, to get a decent life. Am I wrong about that?
    To me, it seems like unless you are at least college educated, you are doomed to flip burgers at Wendy's. Hopefully I'm wrong on that.
    No, in fact we have a huge shortage of skilled blue collar labor.

  17. #17
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Nope. Getting a college degree is important only depending on what you want to do. Some professions, such as plumbers, can make a lot more money than someone with a college degree. And a good life is also subjective. For some, it is not about having a lot of money, but working at what they want to do and also, if they have any plans for retirement and the benefits the job offers such as vacation time, sick leave, health care and retirement.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
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  18. #18
    university degree is not the only way
    but it increases your chances by a lot
    in some cases like an MBA degree from top university, your chances are so high it is almost guaranteed

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Nope. Getting a college degree is important only depending on what you want to do. Some professions, such as plumbers, can make a lot more money than someone with a college degree. And a good life is also subjective. For some, it is not about having a lot of money, but working at what they want to do and also, if they have any plans for retirement and the benefits the job offers such as vacation time, sick leave, health care and retirement.
    well to be fair "what I want to do is Plumber" ... said no one ever
    it is good profession and can make good money. and I respect all professions.
    Just it is not something most people "want to do". just something they do to make money
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    university degree is not the only way
    but it increases your chances by a lot
    in some cases like an MBA degree from top university, your chances are so high it is almost guaranteed

    - - - Updated - - -



    well to be fair "what I want to do is Plumber" ... said no one ever
    it is good profession and can make good money. and I respect all professions.
    Just it is not something most people "want to do". just something they do to make money
    Not true. I know some who love their job as a plumber. Such as my son in law. And some love being a mechanic. Same with being a electrician. I would rather be a plumber than a lawyer.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
    The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to - prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..” - Samuel Adams

  20. #20
    Other than the medical field university is complete bullshit and an almost forced money and time sink, there is no job a semi intelligent person cannot be shown how to do.
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