Why did M+ players become so toxic with BFA?

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

In general it just seems people overall in games right now are going more and more toxic seeing how much they can get away with. There should be more actual people reviewing reports and the threshold for a person to actually check the reports should be lower, rather than the automated system that need so many reports just so people wouldn't be able to abuse them. If there were real people checking reports you could quite easily see from context if the person should get a temp ban or if the person reporting sends reports for nothing and deserves one.

Doing the bare minimum has been a blizzard way to handle toxicity though.

[stresskiller]

lack of proper moderation , the feelling i can get away with my bad behaviour ....
i'm untouchable if i'm an ass hole in this game ... etc etc and it starts at +/- lvl 60 -70 up to 120

[Great Destiny Man]

I really don't like comments like this. People like me legit come here to find out how some of you cope with pug life and get this sarcastic answer.

I also have quit doing m+ and raiding because after so many years of online gaming I just can't take it anymore. Like I'm slowly becoming toxic myself because I just wanna respond in kind. I can't get out of my brain the thought "what is the purpose of calling someone all this horrible shit just because they made a mistake or hasn't seen the fight yet?". Not everyone is super skilled at this game but still wants to maybe enjoy normal raids or some lower mythic+ content.

How does one just not care that one human being is calling another human being a "useless idiot piece of trash that should uninstall and kill themself"? Just bothers me.

These threads aren't really in the theme of finding out how people deal with the situation though, that's the issue. It's just a barrage of "I think M+ is toxic because" which are all varied and ultimately useless.

Thing is the only person who can teach you how to deal with toxicity is you. If you can't develop coping mechanisms for it then is it really worth running with randoms, or even playing the game at all, if it affects you so heavily?

[Ragingheadache]

I really don't like comments like this. People like me legit come here to find out how some of you cope with pug life and get this sarcastic answer.

I also have quit doing m+ and raiding because after so many years of online gaming I just can't take it anymore. Like I'm slowly becoming toxic myself because I just wanna respond in kind. I can't get out of my brain the thought "what is the purpose of calling someone all this horrible shit just because they made a mistake or hasn't seen the fight yet?". Not everyone is super skilled at this game but still wants to maybe enjoy normal raids or some lower mythic+ content.

How does one just not care that one human being is calling another human being a "useless idiot piece of trash that should uninstall and kill themself"? Just bothers me.

You should give FFXIV a try - far more civilised and no raider.io rubbish.

[Tekkommo]

You should give FFXIV a try - far more civilised and no raider.io rubbish.

That's because that game is ridiculously easy.

[slime]

Well now this thread has become funny. I wonder why the toxic people and the non-toxic people both seem to like the same thing.

[juselara02]

Last nite I was running temple with a pug group. It was a +10 and they where things like monks, druids, DH and I was a poor ret pally, so they all complained because I was always behind. I was using my steed on cooldown in the indoor places.

We got to the Boss of the three totems. As you know, the totems have to be killed all in the same time. So, I went to the totem of the left along with other dps and I used wings, so the totem died fast. When the totem was almost done, I checked the other two totems: One was almost down too, because the other dps was taking care of it, but the other totem was intact. So, realizing we had two totems almost ready, and still having like 15 seconds remaining in my wings, I used my steed and ran to the undamaged totem and started to attack it. Dudes, the backlash was real!. The thank was like: Pally!, dude!, WTF! really?, you f*cking moron, etc etc. I was totally confused so I started to freeze thinking: Wtf!. Did I do something wrong? :/ So I became a mess, almost died. Then we killed the boss and asked the tank I he could explaing me what did I do Wrong. He never talked again. The healer was super nice and said: No worries, we killed it. Then at last boss we where strugling a lot and ended killing the Boss The tank and myself with one minute remaining. The tank took his loot, said Nooobs!. and left the instance.

[probert]

3 reasons:

- Given the weakness of end game content overall for BFA, mythic+ has become the progression focus. Its the end game for the hardcore.
- there are obvious class design deficiencies that eliminate some specs from being relevant. while in heroic/mythic0/LFR/normal raiding the margin of error can allow for 10% less DPS or 20% less healing, mythic+ demands min/maxing
- the timers in mythic+ basically introduced a failure state where you can have 5 poeple work on something for 30 minutes with nothing to show for it. gating entry into mythic dungeon groups is a hedge against wasting time.

TLDR:
- mythics are hard
- given how easy the rest of wow has become, epeeners now focus on mythic+ (or arenas if pvp oriented)

[Tekkommo]

Last nite I was running temple with a pug group. It was a +10 and they where things like monks, druids, DH and I was a poor ret pally, so they all complained because I was always behind. I was using my steed on cooldown in the indoor places.

We got to the Boss of the three totems. As you know, the totems have to be killed all in the same time. So, I went to the totem of the left along with other dps and I used wings, so the totem died fast. When the totem was almost done, I checked the other two totems: One was almost down too, because the other dps was taking care of it, but the other totem was intact. So, realizing we had two totems almost ready, and still having like 15 seconds remaining in my wings, I used my steed and ran to the undamaged totem and started to attack it. Dudes, the backlash was real!. The thank was like: Pally!, dude!, WTF! really?, you f*cking moron, etc etc. I was totally confused so I started to freeze thinking: Wtf!. Did I do something wrong? :/ So I became a mess, almost died. Then we killed the boss and asked the tank I he could explaing me what did I do Wrong. He never talked again. The healer was super nice and said: No worries, we killed it. Then at last boss we where strugling a lot and ended killing the Boss The tank and myself with one minute remaining. The tank took his loot, said Nooobs!. and left the instance.

That's pretty funny.

I do find, that if I do come across a dick, it's normally a tank. The person with the easiest roll in game.

[The7]

I got yelled at twice for having my voidwalker out. I promptly told the tank my pet taunt is automatically turned off. The second time, the tank called me a retard and I repeated what I said the first time, followed by "now STFU and pull". After a few more kind words exchanged, we ended up finishing the key w/no other problems.

Ppl need to know locks mainly use their voidwalker for their AOE on trash. This is often the case when interrupts aren't needed.

I'll admit I had no idea voidwalker could be a good AOE source of damage for warlocks, thanks for the information. It's been the "taunt pet" for so long I didn't expect to have been changed.

[Deleted]

I’m ranked in the top 20 for DK tanks for my realm by forming or joining good groups using discord and building relationships with good players but I still run into disgustingly toxic players from time to time. Thankfully, I’ve built up enough of a friends list base or guild mates to mitigate this problem

Sorry but after reading bouth of your posts as someone how cant get into a +10 ( dont ahve time to spam m+ so i dont get big score ) i CAN'T see how poeple can defend this to the core . I looked my slef up i am 41 Dk frost on my relm , still get denied on +4 , or nobody joins mine .... i am score about 300 ... its low , i don't have time spam it... was in a grp with only druids , as a frost i top-et the chars od dps on single target , and thats insane for a / so so shitty single target dps class like mine with only a cc 2 min burst CD

[HuxNeva]

I wont bother finding a new guild to stay "competitive", why would I? I'm 7/8 heroic in Uldir with pugs, no real need for raiding guilds anymore

I could and have progressed faster with PUG's than with the guilds I like in the past, but I'm having fun every raid night now with my guild, while that was seldom true in PUG's.

[Deleted]

i found m+ so super cool and nice, looking how it became more TOXIC that anything before EVER in WOW , lol BG is more harmless then that, xD LOL SALT is more harmless, i wish that they delete m+ , or remake it, the SALT is so real, the defending of it , the ELITIST scum , Jesus fuck me in the ass pls.

[MisterBigglez]

Sounds like nothing new, and raider.io is certainly making things worse in terms of toxicity, got a good score but mess up? Oh boy, you're in for a shitshow.

[Trend]

I joined a +12 WM pug today. Everything went smoothly but when we got to the last boss we were 2% short because the tank didn’t pull enough trash because teaming calculation was off. The healer who didn’t say a word the whole run goes off on the tank calling him an idiot, trash tanking etc I forget all the expletives, and then leaves the group with 5ish minutes left on the timer to down the boss and get 2%.

I have been running keys up to level 23 by the end of legion and I have never seen the levels of elitism and raging among random groups like I do now. We are barely past the first month of mythic+ being out and you will get criticized so hard if you don’t know the exact pulls/routes/skips/interrupt/dispel/fear pathing/aggro range/charm/cc without any voice or pre-planning. Some groups do things totally different.

For example I did a +14 TAD last week and I had never seen T-Rex boss tanked by the stairs and didn’t know to run under them during fear so I spawned some raptors going to where I normally have. I got lit up so hard and called a brain dead tart jabrony among other things... oh it’s not like we even wiped either.

I have never seen such a level of insults/toxicity/rage quitting over even minor events in dungeons. I got my raider.io to 1123 so far on my own... but I’m starting to not have fun anymore and am starting to think it’s not worth it to try and push further. I feel like you have to walk on eggshells, be absolutely perfect and pray the way you know to do things is the same as the groups or else it’s a bust. And in B4 run with a guild group or make your own- because of the times I play I’m not able to keep a consistent m+ team together.

I don’t remember legion being anywhere close to this bad. Has the MDI and focus on raider.io causes this or have toxic players just driven most reasonable people out? M+ was my favorite part of the game coming out of legion and I was so excited for all the new dungeons and comps going into BFA... I’m feel very salty now.

So back to the title..

Anecdotal experience is awesome. Personally I've seen toxic behavior going back to closed beta in 2004. I don't think overall human nature has changed in the thousands of years of recorded history and I certainly don't think it's changed that much in the last 6 months.

Sorry you have had some run-ins with rude people. Unfortunately, you will have more.

- - - Updated - - -

Raider IO probably has a role in it. I have no issue with Raider IO myself and it's nice to something like that to serve both as a tool and to give some players something to work for, but things like that can really inflate egos.

Yeah, because players didn't have egos before raider.io

/s

[Progenitor Aquarius]

They always been toxic. The harder dungeon the more toxic players. That of course depends how many mistakes are made.

[Loveliest]

Good question, really. I know everyone here says this has always been the case, but I've seen this change in one of my friends as well since BfA. In one of the hardest weeks he bitched the whole instance. Not even talking that he didn't bother to stun unless called to stun or interrupt unless it was something really big or put healthstones down and so on. He bitched over and over, I wanted to slap him in place.
I've concluded it's an expectation vs reality thing. Players come with certain expectations (eg you have high raiderio so you should play perfectly) and when things don't happen this way, people rage. Of course, it takes a certain type of person to react like that, someone civilized would never do that.
Why is this worse than in Legion, though? Not sure, I think people forget that at Legion start people learned pulls and doing a +10 in time wasn't all that easy. Also, at the start of Legion, you'd deplete your key so keys were limited, participation was lower, people didn't care for higher keys as much as they do now (+3-ing lower ones was preferable to pushing) and that's when the learning happened. People forget stuff like that and expect perfect keys like they did at the END of Legion.

[bladeXcrasher]

I might be wrong since i don't play my lock that often , but when i did dungeons i always used my imp instead of voidwalker isn't that correct any longer? voidwalker opperates as tank it's like a hunter not turning off growl.
Correct me is this is wrong nower days.

It auto cancels and all pet damage is normalized. The exception being felguard, which is demo only. Anyone playing affliction or destro can use whatever pet based on the command demon ability they have.

[Great Destiny Man]

Last nite I was running temple with a pug group. It was a +10 and they where things like monks, druids, DH and I was a poor ret pally, so they all complained because I was always behind. I was using my steed on cooldown in the indoor places.

We got to the Boss of the three totems. As you know, the totems have to be killed all in the same time. So, I went to the totem of the left along with other dps and I used wings, so the totem died fast. When the totem was almost done, I checked the other two totems: One was almost down too, because the other dps was taking care of it, but the other totem was intact. So, realizing we had two totems almost ready, and still having like 15 seconds remaining in my wings, I used my steed and ran to the undamaged totem and started to attack it. Dudes, the backlash was real!. The thank was like: Pally!, dude!, WTF! really?, you f*cking moron, etc etc. I was totally confused so I started to freeze thinking: Wtf!. Did I do something wrong? :/ So I became a mess, almost died. Then we killed the boss and asked the tank I he could explaing me what did I do Wrong. He never talked again. The healer was super nice and said: No worries, we killed it. Then at last boss we where strugling a lot and ended killing the Boss The tank and myself with one minute remaining. The tank took his loot, said Nooobs!. and left the instance.

If you're using wings on totems and finding yourself with 15 seconds potentially wasted that's not really optimal CD usage. Would've been better popping that on the boss itself (especially with the fact that you're under pressure to get that down before you too much shit spreading).

[Lurker1]

Main reason why im avoiding MYthicplus like the plague i might do Mythic0 for that quest that gives heroic raid gear but to get into yet probably not i got a gut feeling warfronts in the future will drop higher ilvls anyways making them kind of pointless to do it asap.