Thread #n+1 Arms vs. Fury

[Zorachus]

As far as "fun factor" goes, Fury has that in spades over slow motion stuck in mud Arms.

[Bigbazz]

As far as "fun factor" goes, Fury has that in spades over slow motion stuck in mud Arms.

I dunno I find it the opposite, Fury is a whack-a-mole spec with very little meaningful decision making and a lack of tools giving the spec a monotone feel.

[Sainur]

I dunno I find it the opposite, Fury is a whack-a-mole spec with very little meaningful decision making and a lack of tools giving the spec a monotone feel.

I agree. This is especially true now with furious slash no longer being a base-line ability, and you now have to choose between that or sudden death.

I've always mained fury in the past but find it very boring and lackluster now with average dps at best. Arms still comes out on top on pretty much every situation and in general feels more fun to play. Sure, arms has always been slower to play than fury, but it requires more thought and decision making than fury nowadays.

They gutted fury imo, awful execute phase, no filler abiltiy unless you spec into furious slash and they nerfed recklessness (formerly battle cry) into the ground so you have a shitty mediocre burst window where you just constantly do one ability (either BT or RB) and then rampage to dump rage.

I don't really enjoy the final row of the talent tree either, I don't like having to choose and pick between reckless abandon, AM or siegebreaker. I can't really find out which suits fury better either. Seems like reckless abandon is no longer the way to go, AM will only allow you to have a maybe one or two extra recklessness burst windows in fights and I suppose siegebreaker can be good for mob cleaving and a bit more single target burst.

[Zorachus]

Arms was amazing in Legion, and Fury felt so clunky and bad in Legion, specifically both rotations.

Now Fury is warp speed instant rotation very smooth and great play. And Arms feels like slow motion, stuck in mud. Cast a spell, then go to washroom, come back when your next spell might be ready. Cast another then eat a sandwich and then the next spell should be ready. Arms has crazy long cooldowns and slow rotation

[Azerate]

I played fury at the beginning of the expansion and didn't really like it so I was happy to switch back to arms which turned out to be more versatile, especially for m+.

In the end though, you just play what you want to play. It's really stupid to abandon a spec you like because it deals 2% less damage, and switching back and forth and spending 100k weekly doing that is beyond silly.

Are you in a top 50 guild? Are you doing +15 and higher keys (now)? If not, both specs will be fine. Don't be the guy who is trying to apply the world first race logic to medium level keys and heroic raiding.

Arms was amazing in Legion,

What?

[Chowder]

If anyone thinks Fury warrior is bad for m+ go to Youtube and find player name Deswind.They recording 10+ keys in time.

10s in time is a last month thing to do, right now if you are not timing 13s and 14s you are a shitter.
and anything higher than that makes you actually good, so far every warrior above 15 is arms, and there is very few of them, not many reasons to bring warriors of any type to m+s.

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Arms was amazing in Legion, and Fury felt so clunky and bad in Legion, specifically both rotations.

Now Fury is warp speed instant rotation very smooth and great play. And Arms feels like slow motion, stuck in mud. Cast a spell, then go to washroom, come back when your next spell might be ready. Cast another then eat a sandwich and then the next spell should be ready. Arms has crazy long cooldowns and slow rotation

crazy long?
arms has probably the lowest cds in the game after anger managment
and if anything, Fury is a great example of how a fast spec can lead to decisions being meaningless and stale.
At least arms requires excellent cooldown management, rage and swing timer control and perfect cooldown to mechanic synchronization.

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Mayby Fury is worse than Arms, but i dont sure is he far behind in m+.I can beat, frost mage, outlaw rogue, bm hunters in overall dps, is this that bad ? .

Beating shitters is great anecdotal evidence I hear

[MisterBigglez]

Heres the thing. Unless you're in a cutting edge guild, play whatever you want. Both specs are viable in raids. But lets talk m+

What do warriors bring to the table? Battle Shout, ST stun, AoE fear. Defensives, you have a parry with 30% dmg reduction on a long cd, or a 30% dmg reduction with increase healing on a long cd

Battle Shout is only gonna be useful for yourself, the tank and maaaaaaaaybe another dps if they're melee aswell. Groups can just take the scrolls however so really, you're just bringing an extra 3% attack power

ST stun on a short cd can come in handy, but it means you can't take Double Time, which is annoying for you, cause 2 charges is bliss, but it has to be done.

AoE fear half the time just messes things up and you're only really gonna use it if, for whatever reason, theres multiple casts going off and theres nothing that anyone can do to interrupt it.

Apart from that, theres nothing else.

Then you get classes like DH, who bring a purge, aoe stun and a possible ST stun. They are also more tanky and can provide decent self healing which you can either improve a lot or you can take an immunity instead. They also apply a 5% magic damage taken to targets.

Rogues can bring a ST stun on 0 cd, group stealth, silences, target damage reduction, immunes, aoe dmg reduction and a self heal.

Druids can soothe enrages, knockback, combat res, aoe silence, self heals, quite tanky with constant dmg reductions and on use dmg reductions on short cds.

Those are the three classes you see everywhere when you look at high keys being cleared. You also see some mages, warlocks, hunters, a monk here and there, but other than that, no real sign of warriors. Theres no reason to bring one if you want to push, the damage alone is not enough to justify a spot when you have the above classes doing more than you while also bringing so much more utility. RIP Shockwave. RIP Glyph of Intimidating Shout. RIP Dragon Roar knockback

[Zyky]

Is arms the only way to go or could I play Fury for occasional casual raiding and lower level mythics?

For casual raiding, assuming you have a guild, I don't see why not. Same goes for low level m+, if you're doing them with friends. Pugs are generally far more specific about if you're playing a spec that isn't optimal.

However long term you'll want to be Arms if you want to play the game seriously or be in any semi-hardcore Mythic raiding guild or if you want to push higher keys. Next tier you'll probably see more Fury Warriors, because Fury right now is simming better than Arms with roughly ~400il.

[tru]

As far as "fun factor" goes, Fury has that in spades over slow motion stuck in mud Arms.

To each their own. I prefer slowe harder hitting playstyles vs master of 1000 wet noodle strikes.

[Chowder]

This "unless you're method" shit meme needs to die, even if you are in a very casual guild, using a subpar spec is plain and simple being selfish and a dickhead to your teammates, and even tho fury can keep up on some bosses, the overall winner for Uldir is Arms by far, and if you're not playing it you are gimping your own raid.

[Deleted]

As far as "fun factor" goes, Fury has that in spades over slow motion stuck in mud Arms.

Arms is not really slow at all.

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Arms was amazing in Legion.

And Arms feels like slow motion, stuck in mud. Cast a spell, then go to washroom, come back when your next spell might be ready. Cast another then eat a sandwich and then the next spell should be ready. Arms has crazy long cooldowns and slow rotation

Everything you said is wrong.

[Zorachus]

Arms is not really slow at all.

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Everything you said is wrong.

I am only level 113 on my Warrior alt, and with Fury I have no waiting issues on spells, it's wham bam thank you ma'am spell casting. Warp factor 9 Mr. Sulu, lightning fast spell casting, always something up and ready to go, never waiting on spells to refresh or cool down.

At least with Arms, it does not feel like that whatsoever, I cast my first two spells one after the other, then there seems to be a half second wait, then I can click another spell, and maybe another might be ready, or there could be a slight wait for either rage to be build up again, or spells to come off cool down. To me Arms feels slower in spell casting compared Fury.

[deadmanfred]

I am only level 113 on my Warrior alt, and with Fury I have no waiting issues on spells, it's wham bam thank you ma'am spell casting. Warp factor 9 Mr. Sulu, lightning fast spell casting, always something up and ready to go, never waiting on spells to refresh or cool down.

At least with Arms, it does not feel like that whatsoever, I cast my first two spells one after the other, then there seems to be a half second wait, then I can click another spell, and maybe another might be ready, or there could be a slight wait for either rage to be build up again, or spells to come off cool down. To me Arms feels slower in spell casting compared Fury.

I'd say at 113 you can't really tell. Of course that's not true other than azerite gear, and arms has some of the best for rotation/gameplay changing traits. Having say test of Might or Executioners precision changes your rotation a good bit so I haven't really been using the base rotation since the xpac started. Your rage gain is based on your auto attacks so with more haste means more rage and less downtime. Also th 120 enchant gale force striking greatly increases your rage generated giving you almost no downtime when it procs. Fury is a lot of little hits while arms has more controlled large chunks of damage, I got 55k mortal strikes during CS window with executioners precision:/

[Deleted]

At first I hated Arms but I think I now prefer it to Fury. Fury is smoother but it's just doing the same thing over and over of going through the motion of 1,2,3 and then rampage. That's the entire gameplay. Arms feels like it has it more variety, is more tactical and it's really not that slow. I actually find at times it's hard to dump all my rage so it's not often I'm pressing nothing. Plus you can't beat WB+BS and cleave execute spam.

[Deleted]

I am only level 113 on my Warrior alt

error detected

[Damik]

Heres the thing. Unless you're in a cutting edge guild, play whatever you want. Both specs are viable in raids. But lets talk m+

What do warriors bring to the table? Battle Shout, ST stun, AoE fear. Defensives, you have a parry with 30% dmg reduction on a long cd, or a 30% dmg reduction with increase healing on a long cd

Battle Shout is only gonna be useful for yourself, the tank and maaaaaaaaybe another dps if they're melee aswell. Groups can just take the scrolls however so really, you're just bringing an extra 3% attack power

ST stun on a short cd can come in handy, but it means you can't take Double Time, which is annoying for you, cause 2 charges is bliss, but it has to be done.

AoE fear half the time just messes things up and you're only really gonna use it if, for whatever reason, theres multiple casts going off and theres nothing that anyone can do to interrupt it.

Apart from that, theres nothing else.

Then you get classes like DH, who bring a purge, aoe stun and a possible ST stun. They are also more tanky and can provide decent self healing which you can either improve a lot or you can take an immunity instead. They also apply a 5% magic damage taken to targets.

Rogues can bring a ST stun on 0 cd, group stealth, silences, target damage reduction, immunes, aoe dmg reduction and a self heal.

Druids can soothe enrages, knockback, combat res, aoe silence, self heals, quite tanky with constant dmg reductions and on use dmg reductions on short cds.

Those are the three classes you see everywhere when you look at high keys being cleared. You also see some mages, warlocks, hunters, a monk here and there, but other than that, no real sign of warriors. Theres no reason to bring one if you want to push, the damage alone is not enough to justify a spot when you have the above classes doing more than you while also bringing so much more utility. RIP Shockwave. RIP Glyph of Intimidating Shout. RIP Dragon Roar knockback

Warrior have that unique good utylity, its rallying cry, you don't say nothink about this.Rallying cry is forgotten because nobody sees it, it gives you extra hp which sometimes can be very important, but you only know that and healer.
As if this skill would give something else, for example from azerite, let's say lifesteal or dmg reduction, sound great.For this moment there is something that improves this skill from azerite, gives additional hp but I think it's not enough. Generally this spell is very well thought out, but on m+ it still lacks something.
Just better Rallying cry and single target stun in baseline to replace for aoe stun from talents and warriors will be great again.
Self healing with Fury is amazing for me relly , healer dont need to heal me while i am in Enraged Regeneration, and Bloodthirst give sustain healing.

[Deciticus]

Fury Warrior is worse than Arms for M+ though, 10+ keys in time means he's well geared and plays with a good group, not much more because a +10 key is fairly standard practice now. I think the concern people have is that Fury is considerably worse than Arms, enough that it's not really the optimal pick in any situation at the moment.

Though that's nothing new, Blizzard has never done a good job of having both specs equally viable at the same time.

That's, very untrue. Fury and arms are essentially equal in m+. Better at different things.

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Arms, while Fury has received some significant buffs recently every encounter in Uldir is Arms preferable. For M+ I would prefer arms especially on Tyrannical weeks for execute.

You're wrong, right, and wrong again. Fury and arms are pretty equal in m+. Arms is better in Tyrannical, but it has nothing to do with execute.

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For casual raiding, assuming you have a guild, I don't see why not. Same goes for low level m+, if you're doing them with friends. Pugs are generally far more specific about if you're playing a spec that isn't optimal.

However long term you'll want to be Arms if you want to play the game seriously or be in any semi-hardcore Mythic raiding guild or if you want to push higher keys. Next tier you'll probably see more Fury Warriors, because Fury right now is simming better than Arms with roughly ~400il.

Fury was simming higher than arms a 340, mate. And fury can do mythic well, same as arms, there are only three bosses where going arms is the "required" choice. Curious if you could name those. M+, guess what, said it twice now, gonna say it again. Fury and arms are essentially equal. It depends more on affixes, dungeon in question, and group comp. Ez mode, fury for fort, arms for tyrann.

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This "unless you're method" shit meme needs to die, even if you are in a very casual guild, using a subpar spec is plain and simple being selfish and a dickhead to your teammates, and even tho fury can keep up on some bosses, the overall winner for Uldir is Arms by far, and if you're not playing it you are gimping your own raid.

But, it's not really sub par. Arms is only outright better on three fights in the raid. Going fury on other bosses isn't hurting the raid, even a little.

[Zyky]

Fury was simming higher than arms a 340, mate. And fury can do mythic well, same as arms, there are only three bosses where going arms is the "required" choice. Curious if you could name those. M+, guess what, said it twice now, gonna say it again. Fury and arms are essentially equal. It depends more on affixes, dungeon in question, and group comp. Ez mode, fury for fort, arms for tyrann.

lol, no it wasn't. Fury was never ahead of Arms on sims even with 3 Auto Attack traits, which is why they had to buff it twice already and its only better now on sims and worse in real game situations. They were decent in burst, fell off strong in ST and were even worse in AoE. There's very few situations where subpar sustained AoE is better than Burst AoE followed by strong 2 target cleave.

[Deciticus]

lol, no it wasn't. Fury was never ahead of Arms on sims even with 3 Auto Attack traits, which is why they had to buff it twice already and its only better now on sims and worse in real game situations. They were decent in burst, fell off strong in ST and were even worse in AoE. There's very few situations where subpar sustained AoE is better than Burst AoE followed by strong 2 target cleave.

Yes, it was. There was a bug in the arms sims, early on. That was fixed, and arms sims dropped by several hundred dps, typically around 500. After that bug fix. warriors started simming higher as fury. If you're discussing class comparison sims, then you may as well stop. That's beyond pointless to even discuss.

Fury is equal with arms in m+. That's not debatable. Arms is better in Tyrannical, fury in Fortified. Obviously, group comp, affixes, dungeon, and key level all combined have an affect on the outcome, but that's the rough rule.

Fury has only been buffed once. Two traits have been buffed, one nerfed. The exact power of the buff depends on the traits you had at the time.

[Chowder]

That's, very untrue. Fury and arms are essentially equal in m+. Better at different things.

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You're wrong, right, and wrong again. Fury and arms are pretty equal in m+. Arms is better in Tyrannical, but it has nothing to do with execute.

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Fury was simming higher than arms a 340, mate. And fury can do mythic well, same as arms, there are only three bosses where going arms is the "required" choice. Curious if you could name those. M+, guess what, said it twice now, gonna say it again. Fury and arms are essentially equal. It depends more on affixes, dungeon in question, and group comp. Ez mode, fury for fort, arms for tyrann.

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But, it's not really sub par. Arms is only outright better on three fights in the raid. Going fury on other bosses isn't hurting the raid, even a little.

three, more like 6, including all the ones that matter, the hard ones.