Why did M+ players become so toxic with BFA?

[Regalbeast]

and you never generalise

Saying “all” would have been generalizing. Saying “most” is a slight hyperbole but not far off from the truth.

[Wirzy]

the time is cancer, wish there was a calm mode

[Marrilaife]

It sounds like the people you are playing with are douchebags. I haven't been in many guilds (three since Wrath), and I have never experienced that level of disrespect. If people were no-shows, they were quickly excluded from all guild activities, and quickly replaced in the guild roster.

Believe me or not, but that guild I was on where people would arrange m+ and then bail was actually a guild that got cutting edge: guldan (on the last week but still), so it wasn't even that casual as you'd expect (read: not normal/heroic raiders only).

I've been in 4 guilds during legion, and not in a single one of them m+ activity was policed by the gm, only in one he was checking if people did their weekly chest at all, because he saw many people not doing a single m+.

Anyway even now I can ask on guild chat "1 dps for m+" and hear answers like "but I don't like x dungeon".

On top of it, everyone seems to be pvping much more than participating in any m+ activity. I'm a dedicated tank and I don't see myself doing arena like that, so I'm trying to get extra gear from m+, but people are unwilling to come unless it's a perfect day, hour, dungeon and level of keystone for them. Otherwise, they decline.

Last time someone asked me to join for m+, I went, ended up having to use my own key, because no one had a 10 so had to burn mine, and 2 people decided to relog their alts that 1 plays a poor class for m+ and another was undergeared, so the key got depleted despite this week being quite easy.

I'm just sad when everyone says tanks are the douchebags, while it's the tank that ends up being used and abused to carry people's alts to their weekly +10.

And I'd swear it was much worse in the previous guilds I've been in, one of them people would only ask me to tank low keys for their alts no one wanted to join, but never ask me to do anything higher, so half the Legion I had to pug my weekly chest. Once when a guildie asked me for BRH +8 and I declined, I got a whole lecture about how my life priorities are wrong. That was awkward as fuck.

I'm by no means some raider.io all star, but I'm more than capable to run a weekly chest dungeon, I don't rage at people, so I have no idea why I can't even get a group together without going around and literally begging dps players to join.

And tbh it isn't even just my problem, our 3rd guild tank has exactly the same problem trying to get people for his weekly runs. Both of us have 2 capable tank classes both in need of weekly chest.

My blood boils when I see people write "oh my guild doesn't have enough tanks and I'm a poor left out dps and have to pug", when I see how much of a chore is to coerce players into running the weekly m+ even though they benefit from it as much as everyone else.

I mean f someone is a no-show to m+, his gear will be lacking. if his gear is lacking, he isn't taken to guild raids. if he isn't taken to guild raids, he is removed from the guild eventually. problem solved.

Was only true first few weeks of the raid tier, now our top ilvl people are the ones the most lucky with personal loot from mythic raid, not the ones who run m+ all day. I have only 1 item from the mythic raid I managed to coin, nothing else, so I dropped from being one of the top ilvl after heroic week to being in the bottom half. And then you have all the 380ilvl people who don't give a damn about m+ anymore.

[ID811717]

This happens at the start of every expac. Most people remember end of previous expac and how most things were faceroll and how +20 groups and higher being "normal" and how everyone knew exact tactics and dungeons were always pulled the same way. That's because everyone had been running them for two years solid.

Even in the last months of Legion, there was a huge discrepancy in how the pulls and skips are handled. If the difference between two players was 1k raider.io score (e.g. 5k vs. 4k players), you could be certain that the lower rated player did not know the pulls that were commonly done by the higher rated player.

[HuxNeva]

It's Raider.io - Its fostered an environment of elitism instead of just bringing people and doing your best.

No it isn't. It is Blizzard tying a reward outlier to it (the weekly cache) so people who are not interested in M+ at all feel entitled to a carry. They don't want to run M+ at all as the reward for investment for the normal runs is subpar, but they want that one +10 run for 'their chest'.

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I'm just sick of seeing "m0 big dick deeps ilvl 345 min required" LOL

And then I join it and they all suck ass except me.

Why the hell would you join that?

[Maarius]

I'm not sure why people use raider.io, I tried it once to look at my own character and it shows a state my character had weeks ago.

[Vampiregenesis]

Everything was better regarding m+ on legion. Capping was easier and the dungeons weren't so unforgiving. There are SO many things you have to remember now especially as tank, you can screw up a stone with a misspull, ppl ninja pull all the time etc. I guess most who runs stone get leavers frequently and this cause some tension. If you are playing a tank then M+ are literally a hell, I was considering to create a notepad text with tips for each dungeon because I just can't remember everything

[Bangdingow]

Quick story. Started a full pug for Temple of Sethraliss last night. On the first boss the mage aggros the pack at the back of the room, dies and causes a reset. On the next pull the same mage dies 20 - 30 seconds into the fight then leaves the group. I don't remember his raider.io score but it was solid or I wouldn't have invited him in the first place. This type of shit rarely happened when WoW had a community, now it's common place.

[Ssateneth]

sorry to be ignorant, what is MDI?

[HuxNeva]

Saying “all” would have been generalizing. Saying “most” is a slight hyperbole but not far off from the truth.

Saying 'some' would be even less hyperbole and ven closer to the truth.

[Maudib]

It is getting more and more toxic because that is who is left playing WoW. Without admitting it, even the holdouts are getting tired of the boring game and endless grind... but instead of pointing their dissatisfaction toward Blizzard, they are eating their own young.

The situation you describe is the natural evolution of Mythic+ farming.... no one enjoys it.. it's just "the way" to get stuff. And "everyone else" is who is stopping progression.

[HuxNeva]

sorry to be ignorant, what is MDI?

Mythic Dungeon Invitational. Blizzard's poor attempt at making something out of M+, but mostly them demonstrating they don't have a clue of how to dress it up. Fair enough, everyone has to start somewhere, but the halfheartedness with which they approach these things is shocking.

[Zyky]

The issue is that keys are arguably harder at lower levels and more obnoxious at higher levels(overall I think the placement of difficulty is perfect personally), but there's a lot of bad players in this game, who like to blame anyone but themselves.

[Achilles55]

I thoroughly enjoy M+ and I think the raider.io addon is a great way to quickly filter out bad players and form a competent and successful group. The MDI is incredibly exciting to watch and twicth viewership proves that as the MDI blows every pvp tournament out of the water.

[Rhall]

Quick story. Started a full pug for Temple of Sethraliss last night. On the first boss the mage aggros the pack at the back of the room, dies and causes a reset. On the next pull the same mage dies 20 - 30 seconds into the fight then leaves the group. I don't remember his raider.io score but it was solid or I wouldn't have invited him in the first place. This type of shit rarely happened when WoW had a community, now it's common place.

I feel like the guy likely made a mistake. He's probably done similar or saw similar in the paste and didn't feel like weathering the barrage of insults he was likely about to face. Tiny mistake or not doing a small trash pack skip results in massive toxicity in alot of groups. It's 100% why I stopped tanking this xpac. If anyone makes a mistake there's so many times people would yell at me for not picking up the 3rd pack they body aggro'd while I'm eating a cc that should have been kicked.

Whenever someone has left mid run with me and its a low key I'm just messing around with I will message them sometimes and be like Why'd you leave its a chill group. I don't think anyone has ever responded.

[HuxNeva]

Everything was better regarding m+ on legion. Capping was easier and the dungeons weren't so unforgiving. There are SO many things you have to remember now especially as tank, you can screw up a stone with a misspull, ppl ninja pull all the time etc. I guess most who runs stone get leavers frequently and this cause some tension. If you are playing a tank then M+ are literally a hell, I was considering to create a notepad text with tips for each dungeon because I just can't remember everything

This is where most of the 'raiders' fail. They are so used to trash being a simple tank & spank AoE fest, and having like 3 things to look out for on a boss. Then they hit M+, and suddenly discover trash has abilities to remember, affixes can prevent mindless AoE, and bosses can be as unforgiving as raidbosses. They just buckle under the cognitive load.

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I'm not sure why people use raider.io, I tried it once to look at my own character and it shows a state my character had weeks ago.

Sure. It is updated every day, but whatever dude, you are 'special'.

[Vampiregenesis]

This is where most of the 'raiders' fail. They are so used to trash being a simple tank & spank AoE fest, and having like 3 things to look out for on a boss. Then they hit M+, and suddenly discover trash has abilities to remember, affixes can prevent mindless AoE, and bosses can be as unforgiving as raidbosses. They just buckle under the cognitive load.

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Can you blame them though? We spent 2 years doing m+ in this manner and only the really high stones (far more than the cap) were challenging. Now everyone has to adjust into a new reality and change his intuition about everything he knew so far. This is blizzard's fault, making so big changes isn't great for a game imo.

[Regalbeast]

Saying 'some' would be even less hyperbole and ven closer to the truth.

That's not the point of hyperbole

[Achilles55]

the time is cancer, wish there was a calm mode

There is. It's called regular mythics.

[Deleted]

idk. Sucks amirite