Turkey releases Andrew Brunson, but was it worth it?

[Kuntantee]

No offence, but the only thing America cares about is having nukes off Russia's borders.

If erdogan had any bollox he kick the nukes out...and that's not likely.

Otherwise, Turkey, eat it up and smile.

Those nukes are pretty useless in post 2000s. It is true that it takes balls to kick America from Turkey, but I believe even the threat and showing the will to kick USA if they keep supporting terrorists would put pressure to USA stopping support to terrorits. They need Turkey in the region.

[Deleted]

Those nukes are pretty useless in post 2000s. It is true that it takes balls to kick America from Turkey, but I believe even the threat and showing the will to kick USA if they keep supporting terrorists would put pressure to USA stopping support to terrorits. They need Turkey in the region.

Turkish definition of terrorism = any person who opposes Erdogan's will, and is also important enough to matter.

[Kuntantee]

Like what? Turkey's only worth to America and NATO, is its position at the Black Sea, and even that is evaporating as it seems Erdogan is more concerned with pissing off both the EU and America.

Eventually the EU will tell Turkey to fuck off with their dictator, and will be a huge kick in the balls for Turkey's economy, and it will turn into another failed 3rd world Islamic country that exports terrorism. Erdogan's dream.

EU's relationship with Turkey is different than USA. EU and Turkey has strong economic ties and there is geopolitics. An economically collapsed Turkey would definitely bring Spain down due to loans from Spanish banks. This could create a domino effect in EU. Furthermore, a weak Turkey wouldn't be a buffer zone between East and Europe.

Countries, including Western ones, are okay with tyrants and dictators (e.g., Egypt, SA) so long as their interests are served. All in all, your posts make makes no sense whatsoever.

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Turkish definition of terrorism = any person who opposes Erdogan's will, and is also important enough to matter.

So you have nothing intelligent to say? Only if I had a penny for every illiterate peasant I deal with in mmo-c.

[Deleted]

Those nukes are pretty useless in post 2000s. It is true that it takes balls to kick America from Turkey, but I believe even the threat and showing the will to kick USA if they keep supporting terrorists would put pressure to USA stopping support to terrorits. They need Turkey in the region.

Why do they need turkey in the region? Its only use is being able to stage short and medium range nukes on russia's border.

[Kuntantee]

Why do they need turkey in the region? Its only use is being able to stage short and medium range nukes on russia's border.

There are many reasons, from Turkey's location to having a proper country in the region to back you up. USA has two proper allies in the region which can get things done, militarily speaking; Israel and Turkey. If USA loses Turkey too, then it would be Syria + Russia + Iran + Hesbollah and possible Turkey too against USA. That would leave Israel alone, surround with strong enemies. Let me remind you that USA and Israel are struggling to control Iran's influence in the region alone.

Then there is Russia. It looks like Russia is not a huge problem for USA now, but you may never know what will happen in a decade.

These are benefits that Turkey provides to USA in an alliance. I have to ask, what does USA provides to Turkey? Damn nukes that makes Turkey potential grounds for thermonuclear war? Or is it USA's blatant and brazen support to PKK?

We need to reconsider what this alliance brings to table.

[Holofernes]

do you really think that any western nation (be it european or american) has a tiny bit of sympathy for turkey in erdogans time left? Nearly everyone in europe wants the kurds to be left in peace, and most are supportive of groups that fight for kurdish rights, be it in iraq, turkey or syria. Kurds seem to be the only reasonable people left in this area.

I personally think that for EU, the iran is a more reliable and responsible partner than turkey. which is kind of sad for turkey.

[Kuntantee]

Kurds seem to be the only reasonable people left in this area.

If you think this way, you are indoctrinated by Western media. I am not saying Kurds aren't reasonable, but the group you label as "Kurds" is actually YPG, which is PKK's Syrian off-shoot. PKK and YPG are terrorist organizations, targeting Syria, Iran, Iraq and Turkey. PKK/YPG is an existential threat for these countries well-being and territorial integrity.

I don't care what you think of Erdogan, it is not an excuse for supporting/having sympathy for terrorists.

[Astalnar]

You got it wrong. USA made bad calls in Syria, then as a last resort, they tried to get foot hold with PKK, even tho it's a terrorist organization acknowledged even by USA. Knowing that it would piss Turkey, an ally, off.

If you are completely clueless about matters of Syria and ME overall, you shouldn't comment. If anything USA not being a nuassence but seriously damaging Turkey's interests. As I have always said, they should be kicked from Incirlik for their support to terrorism.


This is the kind of answer you ignorant peasants are capable of giving.
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And to reemphasize a fact to all: ISIS is a lesser threat for Turkey compared to PKK. Why should we even deal with ISIS other than clearing them from our border?

Seems someone is getting pretty upset. You don't like it when someone turns a mirror on you? Can't handle the truth, and so you start insulting people?

You inserted yourself in this topic, not me. You started spouting off your Turkish brainwashing. You were the one, who made all efforts to make it known you are the voice of Erdogan's propaganda, that you are Turkish.

PKK is not the greater threat to Turkey than ISIS because of their terrorist activity, but because they are fighting for their own country. They want free, and independent Kurdistan. You Turks instead oppress, and prosecute them. No wonder then, they started lobbing bombs at you people. Kurdish people are the largest minority in the world, that doesn't have their own country. We're talking about 30-45 millions of people mostly spread between Turkey, Syria, and Iraq, that want to have their own state.

You're on the wrong side of history, and you can pout and isult all you want. You will lose, Kurds will get their country wheather you like it or not. Because the alternative is another genocide. But this time, you won't be able to repeat what you did with Armenians, because there is media, there is internet, and they actually have the numbers to fight back.

You are correct that USA is seriously damaging Turkey's interests. Because Turkey's interests are anti-west, and pro-caliphate. Erdogan is blackmailing EU, to give him more money, or he will unleash half a million illegals from Afghanistan on Europe. In Trump's words, that's not good. Not good at all.

If Ataturk could see what you people made of your country, he'd die of shame again. His legacy lies in tatters, his dreams all but destroyed.

[grexly75]

My question to you is, if you or a loved one were wrongly imprisoned in another country, would you not want your counter to try to get you back as well?

Exactly not many people think about that when it comes to things like this.. Unless of course they enjoy staying in some crap hole of a prison in a foreign land..

[Kuntantee]

@Astalnar
I am not upset, you are after reading that peasant line. That's what you get for dumb posts. And the arguments you used for justifying terrorism of PKK can also be used for ISIS. At this point, we are at "I like these terrorists, but not those others", which is potentially beyond the borders of sanity.

[Kasierith]

I'm actually in full agreement here. Turkey has not even pretended to be a friend to the US for years now. That said, it's still two megalomaniacs having a dick measuring contest over a man's life, so don't expect me to proffer any praise over it.

[Deleted]

There are many reasons, from Turkey's location to having a proper country in the region to back you up. USA has two proper allies in the region which can get things done, militarily speaking; Israel and Turkey. If USA loses Turkey too, then it would be Syria + Russia + Iran + Hesbollah and possible Turkey too against USA. That would leave Israel alone, surround with strong enemies. Let me remind you that USA and Israel are struggling to control Iran's influence in the region alone.

Then there is Russia. It looks like Russia is not a huge problem for USA now, but you may never know what will happen in a decade.

These are benefits that Turkey provides to USA in an alliance. I have to ask, what does USA provides to Turkey? Damn nukes that makes Turkey potential grounds for thermonuclear war? Or is it USA's blatant and brazen support to PKK?

We need to reconsider what this alliance brings to table.

I still don't see what Turkey brings. Having a slightly less loony ally than the ones allied to Russia doesn't seem a great selling point.

[Holofernes]

If you think this way, you are indoctrinated by Western media. I am not saying Kurds aren't reasonable, but the group you label as "Kurds" is actually YPG, which is PKK's Syrian off-shoot. PKK and YPG are terrorist organizations, targeting Syria, Iran, Iraq and Turkey. PKK/YPG is an existential threat for these countries well-being and territorial integrity.

I don't care what you think of Erdogan, it is not an excuse for supporting/having sympathy for terrorists.

well the only one that calls those groups terrorists seem to be turkey. I know some stuff about how the turkish government treads kurdish people. I personally know some kurds from turkey, and i would never call them terrorists. but i bet they would take a gun and fight turkish military if they had no other choice.

And i know that turkish military orders lorry-loads of young turkish recruits on unarmored army transport into kurdish mg-postitions to be able to kall the kurdish "terrorists". When i was a soldier , i was stationed on the cyprus border un mission and saw the turkish army doing its stuff on a daily basis.

The problem is the turkish government and its opressive course against minorities, and its involvment in the syrian civil war. But erdogan is moving turkey even farer away from any dialogue with the west, and europe is more likely to work togehter with iran nowadays (which is not really a gain in my opinion) , thanks to turkish politics. Turkey is fading its importance for the west, and soon it will be part of the russian hegemony.

[Kuntantee]

I still don't see what Turkey brings. Having a slightly less loony ally than the ones allied to Russia doesn't seem a great selling point.

It is a great selling point if you consider the fact that both Israel and USA having hard times controlling Iran alone. It was Turkey who stopped Iran getting foothold in North Western Syria, the last rebel territory. USA doesn't have access to that region. That is why Trump praised Turkey's resistance to Assad's advance in Idlib. It's about do you want Turkey in your side, or potentially working against you. This includes future endeavors against Russia.

But I agree, this Alliance needs to end, because we do not benefit from it.

[Astalnar]

@Astalnar
I am not upset, you are after reading that peasant line. That's what you get for dumb posts. And the arguments you used for justifying terrorism of PKK can also be used for ISIS. At this point, we are at "I like these terrorists, but not those other". Which is borderline whackjob thing to say.

I didn't say that though. You did. Learn to read.

Please, do explain, how you're going to equate an indigenous ethnic minority (Kurds) with radical religious minority that came into existence thanks to outside support. I'm really interested to hear some more of that brainwashing at work.

I also notice you just skipped over that little inconvenience about Armenian genocide. Still in denial?

[Ghostpanther]

Do you also question who and what was given up to get Bowe Bergdahl back?

Really good point.

Yes, it was worth getting the pastor back home. Trump has managed to get several releases since he took office. Just one more example of why his team has been successful.

[Kuntantee]

well the only one that calls those groups terrorists seem to be turkey.

No. USA and EU considers PKK terrorists too. Not only that but American officials have also admitted that YPG and PKK are linked.

I know some stuff about how the turkish government treads kurdish people.

Turkey is to blame for certain things but it is not an excuse for terrorism.

I personally know some kurds from turkey, and i would never call them terrorists. but i bet they would take a gun and fight turkish military if they had no other choice.

Did I say all Kurds are terrorists at some point? No. I said YPG and PKK are terrorists. This is because they employ terror as a method to achieve political goal, including deliberately targetting civilians.

And i know that turkish military orders lorry-loads of young turkish recruits on unarmored army transport into kurdish mg-postitions to be able to kall the kurdish "terrorists".

What? This is some wild statement. I am pretty sure it is pure horseshit but if you got some evidence, go a head. And for the record, PKK is called a terrorist organization by many political entities, including USA, EU and Turkey because they target civilians not army.

When i was a soldier , i was stationed on the cyprus border un mission and saw the turkish army doing its stuff on a daily basis.

Doing what? I spent a good time in Cyprus, I know how things are in there.

The problem is the turkish government and its opressive course against minorities, and its involvment in the syrian civil war. But erdogan is moving turkey even farer away from any dialogue with the west, and europe is more likely to work togehter with iran nowadays (which is not really a gain in my opinion) , thanks to turkish politics. Turkey is fading its importance for the west, and soon it will be part of the russian hegemony.

I agree. Erdogan is putting Turkey to a pretty shitty spot in international community.

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I didn't say that though. You did. Learn to read.

Please, do explain, how you're going to equate an indigenous ethnic minority (Kurds) with radical religious minority that came into existence thanks to outside support. I'm really interested to hear some more of that brainwashing at work.

I also notice you just skipped over that little inconvenience about Armenian genocide. Still in denial?

I have to admit, I think you are not particularly smart and probably a waste of time but I will respond to your horseshit so that other readers form their own opinion.

Does it matter if the terror is employed by indigenous or foreign militants? Do you deny that PKK is a terrorist organization?

[Barnabas]

Economic sanctions are jackshit. The real deal was probably made for Manbij. As for Turkey being untrustworthy ally. Not really. If you ignore Turkey's interests and help PKK in Syria, which is also in USA's terrorists list, no wonder Turkey starts cooperating with Russia. The very fact that USA so brazenly gives trucks loads of weapons and other material help to PKK deserves a kick from Incirlik, then again, Erdogan doesn't care for Turkey's best interests but his own.

USA can not hurt Turkey economically, EU can.

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Why don't you give Fethullah Gulen back? We asked for him several times from our awesome ally that is USA.

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What evidence do you have?


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This pastor was allegedly dealing with Kurds who are close to PKK. "No No" for Turkey.

No we will keep Fethullah Gulen here. Your country becomes warm with one of our sworn enemies and you cry about anyone partnering with the PKK because it's mutually beneficial? You are lucky we just don't put strong sanctions on your country since you help Iran evades theirs. Their economy is still shit even with your countries help and you try to pretend yours wont tank either? This is laughable.

Maybe if you get your head out of your ass, then none day, you will learn that even people you dislike can help you if the goal is the same?

[Kuntantee]

No we will keep Fethullah Gulen here. Your country becomes warm with one of our sworn enemies and you cry about anyone partnering with the PKK because it's mutually beneficial? You are lucky we just don't put strong sanctions on your country since you help Iran evades theirs. Their economy is still shit even with your countries help and you try to pretend yours wont tank either? This is laughable.

USA can not put strong sanctions to Turkey. They need to convince Europe. Considering they couldn't even convince Europe to sanction Iran, good luck on Turkey.

Turkey starting to work with Russia corresponds to a time frame when USA started supporting terrorists (PKK), even when they were warned not to by Turkey. Fucking shocker that Turkey is working with Russia...

[Barnabas]

USA can not put strong sanctions to Turkey. They need to convince Europe. Considering they couldn't even convince Europe to sanction Iran, good luck on Turkey.

Turkey starting to work with Russia corresponds to a time frame when USA started supporting terrorists (PKK), even when they were warned not to by Turkey. Fucking shocker that Turkey is working with Russia...Learn to respect your allies.

We don't need EU to start sanctions. Why do you think your dear leader folded and gave us the pastor? Is it because they work? Oh right you are so brainwashed from reality you don't seem to think so. At least Erdogan is smarter than you are.