Lady Liadrin is a savage

[omeomorfismo]

Infallible defense? Hide inside a bubble like their Nightborne cousins, fat lot of good it did them BTW, almost as if hiding and pretending there's nothing out there isn't quite "infallible"...

i mean, there was zero legion invasion this way. and zero complications unlike druidic works of their cousins

[mysticx]

i mean, there was zero legion invasion this way. and zero complications unlike druidic works of their cousins

Yeah, too bad the Scourge had to come around (Instigated by the Legion, Kil'Jaeden set up the whole "Lich king"-deal), bust through their barrier and almost annihilate the High elves, the Nightborne didn't last too long with their barrier once actual trouble arrived, either...

The Worgen-trouble the Night elves had was a result of having to fight off the satyrs, which were a remnant of the war of the Ancients, sure the whole Worgen-thing wasn't their finest hour, but they dealt with it just the same, just like the war of the shifting sands, in the meantine the Blood elves and Nightborne were sitting under their little domes soaking themselves in magic and doing preciously little else.

[Irian]

It's acceptable as her opinion. She may not access to all the lore or is simply biased.

Players could know better, though.

That's kinda what I'm hoping it is. She wasn't exactly a notable figure until after the War of the Ancients so it's not really a big surprise that she wouldn't be too aware of the night elves and their history.

It makes sense that she'd have that opinion of the night elves if she didn't properly understand what went down. Maybe through stories, but it's really just hard to say night elves "hid in their forests" when the current group of night elves sacrificed their immortality to save everyone only about a decade ago lorewise.

[Deleted]

Oh she's being savaged alright. Just savaged her 6 times today! xD

[united]

Lady Liadrin is a paladin who apparently supports and defends the burning of civilians.
She should be cut off from the Light.

That's not how the Light works.

Anyway when Liadrin and Turalyon are the commanders in Arathi he pretty much spends the entire warfront whining about how she's a Horde Paladin. Lol.

[omeomorfismo]

Yeah, too bad the Scourge had to come around (Instigated by the Legion, Kil'Jaeden set up the whole "Lich king"-deal), bust through their barrier and almost annihilate the High elves, the Nightborne didn't last too long with their barrier once actual trouble arrived, either...

The Worgen-trouble the Night elves had was a result of having to fight off the satyrs, which were a remnant of the war of the Ancients, sure the whole Worgen-thing wasn't their finest hour, but they dealt with it just the same, just like the war of the shifting sands, in the meantine the Blood elves and Nightborne were sitting under their little domes soaking themselves in magic and doing preciously little else.

"worgen thing"
like if both war of shifting sands and emerald nightmare arent caused by druids xD
basically in warcraft all what elfs touch become a world ending danger.

and surely even humans caused tons of problems. kirin tor should face all the shit they caused with their misuse of magic and guardian tecnology. but at least high elves tried to stop being elves

[Rozz]

This thread brings so many people together.
People that understand that dialogue between elves is just shady shit talk.
People that still think NB joining the horde defies logic, bc salt.
People that assume a character not being used in the story, means they're okay w/ bad things going on.
And people who confuse their HC love for elves with lore.

I love it. This thread is like the ultimate bait for elven salt miners.

[Netherspark]

This is better writing than it seems. Liadrin is obviously biased and is distorting the truth due to her own prejudice, which is both justified and not.

Yes the Kaldorei did scorn the Blood Elves and especially the Nightborne, and have acted with arrogrance towards them, but what Liadrin says about the Night Elves is plain wrong and she is very much aware of it. It's a pretty normal thing to demonize someone you don't get along with.

In truth the Night Elves have been fighting demons, qiraji and all sorts for thousands of years, while Malfurion warded the very nature of the world from within the dream. And they immediately leapt into battle to fight the scourge and the burning legion when they appeared.

Liadrin's claims that her people "fought to protect the world" are somewhat dubious, as the only enemies they fought which the Night Elves did not are trolls and orcs (and they even initially refused to join the war against the horde until their own lands were in danger).

[Defect]

these days if people dont like something they just yell "BAD WRITING".

[Friendlyimmolation]

Literally man, the past year for night elf fans has been brutal. It's beyond the point of memes at how fucked over they're getting to prop everyone else up

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Really? She was neutral in WoD and Legion, and in BFA she decides to kill the Alliance for? What? She's one of the least consistent imo, her motivations make literally 0 sense, the same goes for Thalyssra. I genuinely believe I could find better fan fics on reddit for WoW's story at this point

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Well yes. Imagine what being a Paladin means to someone like Turalyon, that's all he's known for 1000 years, fighting evil for the greater good. While light can be used either way, it's always been the traditional force for good in WoW. He was one of the first paladins, it probably is upsetting to know that other paladins have no qualms in killing civilians, committing genocides etc

Liadrin has always been Horde/quel'thalas first, but was always willing to work with others, if the situation demanded but she wouldn't give up her previous loyalties.. I don't know how that could be interpreted as inconsistent.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Okay. What threat were the alliance to Quel'thalas or the Horde after Legion? They didn't start the war, they didn't seize and weaponise Azerite, so tell me how you protect your home by starting a war.

Because that's how wars and loyalty work, it does not matter who started the war. The Alliance and Horde are once again fighting and the blood elves sure as hell don't want to rejoin the Alliance and still consider themselves Horde. This makes the Alliance her enemy and following her characterization, means Liadrin is going to fight the enemies of Quel'thalas as she always has.

The Alliance is a threat to Quel'thalas, that's beyond obvious with current events.

so tell me how you protect your home by starting a war.

Liadrin didn't start the war so I don't know why you keep repeating that.

regardless incase you actually did forget, Sylvanas lays out why attacking the Alliance was a good idea, to even the field.

[Deleted]

That truly proves Theron's stupidity. Alleria was misguided, it's as simple as that. If Theron were smart, he would have denied Alleria access to the Sunwell, regardless of her opinion. Since Alleria is wise, eventually she would have realized that it would have been for the greater good. But since Theron is a bigot and a racist, on top of being a fool, he allowed her to come too close to the Sunwell. Then he even had the guts to exile her without apologizing for not showing her the respect that was due to her (as the most renowned war veteran in Thalassian history and finest of the Rangers), and treating her in a most obscene and vulgar way by cutting her words. Alleria is basically a victim of Theron's stupidity, and paid for it, even though she had no control over her fate.


So you deny that the Night Elves fought for many ages to save the world against threats such as the Satyrs, Worgen and Qiraji?

First two are problems horn from the Night Elves themselves...

[Friendlyimmolation]

The Alliance is a threat only because of Sylvanas. Do you seriously think Anduin would have gone "Well that's the greatest evil we've ever faced defeated, better attack Silvermoon!"

I don't think you realize it doesn't matter. There's still a war happening, the blood elves have zero trust in the Alliance.What is the point you keep trying to make, that Liadrin consistently fighting with the Horde and quel'thalas is inconsistent because you don't like that Sylvanas started a war?

Do you honestly think Anduin's going to go "lets just Ignore the strongest Horde presence in Lordaeron because I like elves?"

Or are you saying the blood elves should have not fought because reasons? Do you actually think blood elves like the Alliance and are best friends?

Your original thought that Liadrin somehow always at the end of the day being loyal to Quel'thalas and the Horde is somehow inconsistent is baffling.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Well, let's not forget the Blood Elves nearly betrayed the Horde just a few years ago. But no, my point is - your take on Liandrin's motivations make absolutely no sense. You don't protect your home by starting a war against people that had no intention on fighting with you.

Before Jaina completely solidified their loyalty you mean.

Once again Liadrin did not start the war, it doesn't matter if Quel'thalas had no intention of fighting the Alliance at the time, now the Alliance is an enemy, and like every time before Liadrin is going to fight enemies of her kingdom.

Hell this is ignoring the Void elves/ Allerias/ Vereesa's obesssion with forcing the Blood elves into the Alliance, furthering tensions.

And no, I think Anduin would've likely been very diplomatic, as he was shown to have been in before the storm and correcting the mistakes the Alliance made with the Forsaken before, he wanted the Forsaken to live freely and be able to see their former loved ones, he wasn't against that - he didn't want a war.

Attempting to negotiate with separate parts of the horde has never worked well, it would also require them to trust Anduin more than Sylvanas, if you've missed it Lor'themar pretty much points out that if Sylvanas didn't fight as hard as she did and pay the ultimate price, Arthas may have been able to wipe out all the high elves if he wasn't so delayed, they value and will follow her because of her sacrifies, Anduin has nothing on that, let alone their trust.

So once again, Liadrin could choose to follow the Horde as she's always done or she could betray her loyalties and switch sides or stand by.

Disagree with their reasons, but Liadrin has always been consistent in loyalty.

[Peldorain]

By enslaving a Naru? Oh yes because Liadrin is awesome. Malfurion defeated Ragnaros when he came back, saved Hyjal against deathwing, multiple wars as people have mentioned, helped save Azeroth after the Cataclysm. Where was Liadrin during all this?

Thalyssra couldnt have done anything with the Alliance/Horde champion, BE AND NE army. The Night Elves have shown before they can hold their own (before BfA where clearly they've been so dumb down they forgot how to do anything).

Malfurion is better then Liadrain hands down just accept facts and try find a different way your BE did anything. At least the NE gave up their font of power to save Azeroth, Nightborne and BE? kind of selfish and just kept theirs

Bro, your deluded, it was Hamuul Runetotem that defeated Ragnaros.

BFA isn't the first expansion where the Night Elves have been shown to be so incompetent that a wet bag could defeat them. In past novels & expansions they were constantly bailed out of their trouble by the Humans & Worgen.

Opinion, in my opinion he is the worst twin of the worst set of twins to ever grace fantasy settings.

No, they didn't. A Crazed Eco-Terrorist destroyed it for his own personal reasons then decreed that anyone who used Arcane Magic would be put to the death as part of his final solution. Oh, lets not forget that the only slightly more reasonable of the insane twins created a second well, that said Crazed Eco-Terrorist then used to feed a Super-Tree to grant his people eternal life & youth.

[Gurmech]

This questline was what pushed me over the edge and made me realized that Elves and their fans are irredeemable trash.

Infracted.

[SirKickBan]

Lady Liadrin: The Sin'dorei are also scorned by Tyrande and her prideful lot. Yet for many ages her people slept in dens and hid in trees while my people fought to save this world.

...I don't remember the Quel'dorei doing a whole lot of world-saving in those thousands of years.

Didn't they spend hundreds of years looking for somewhere to live, then stayed put and quiet for thousands until the trolls attacked? Then stayed quiet again until Arthas came to town.

That's not a lot of world-saving. So maybe Liadrin's great at revisionist history, or just a liar, but... Yeah. No.

[shadowmatrix]

Except unlike the night elves the high/blood elves are not immortal. There's been generations lived and died since then. Whereas the night elves in charge now were around then. It would be like blaming a person today because their ancestor in the 1500s was a killer.

That might be true for the Blood Elves but the Nightborne are the same elves that willingly followed Azshara and then cooperated with Guldan rather then fight.

[Thundering]

While the Druids slept, the Night Elves were involved in more wars than any other race. Without the Night Elves, the Burning Legion would have won a long time ago.

What you're getting excited about is actually horrible writing and pretty much the exact opposite of what happened in lore.

So you deny Malfurion slept for ten thousand years?

I think Malf. was not really sleeping he was protecting the "Dreamgrove".

[kendro1200]

While the Druids slept, the Night Elves were involved in more wars than any other race. Without the Night Elves, the Burning Legion would have won a long time ago.

The druids also slept in shifts, not all of them were sleeping all of the time either.

Let's entirely forget the War of the Satyr and the War of the Shifting Sands. Two wars that put everything except maybe the third war and the most recent Legion invasion to shame on size and scope of life lost and stakes.

War of the Satyr would have brought back the Burning Legion before Silvermoon was even up and a city, before the Earthen reawoke as dwarves, the humans started setting up kingdoms or the Trolls to be able to recover from the Sundering.

The War of the Shifting Sands was so brutal that even the Dragonflights when hiding from Deathwing decided that the situation was dire enough that they had to step in or all else was lost.

The Sin'Dorei have two major things in common with the Shal'dorei.
One: Both people hid in magical cities with arcane wards to hide their activity and shields to protect them from physical threats and literally ignored everything going on in the world until their cities were burning.
Two: Both people are super butt hurt about a majority of the Kaldorei turning their back on obsessive arcane studies and claim to be victims of the Kaldorei banning dangerous studies into arcane magic.

This latter one is the most important because the circumstances that befell both the Sin'Dorei and Shal'dorei are directly related to their own choices after the Sundering. The Quel'dorei chose exile to go and hide their arcane practices from greater Kal'dorei society after their revolt in Ashenvale went sideways. They then built another city on sacred troll lands, built up their arcane usage, then went and trained humans to use arcane magic but forgot to tell humans that using arcane magic without special wards will draw the attention of the Burning Legion and lead to another invasion. The humans had to learn the lesson of demons invading and killing them entirely on their own, and instead of practicing magic safely they chose to make a demigod mage to fight demons. The Quel'dorei knew this was going on and did nothing. The Quel'dorei knew about the events of the first and second war and did nothing until an orc army was burning Quel'thalas down. When the undead plague was ravaging Lordearon the Quel'dorei did nothing again. The Quel'dorei only saw the undead plague as an issue when Arthas starting destroying their gates.

Note: the Kaldorei knew about the first and second war, but they had their own problems to worry about at the time, and they were also duty bound to protect the World Tree. The Kaldorei were literally sending agents across the world keeping an eye on it and trying to keep targets they saw most dangerous to the safety of Azeroth and then either killing them or locking them up in the Warden's Vault.

The Shal'dorei were even worse than the Quel'dorei/Sin'dorei. They actively chose to ignore the entire world. They knew everything was going to hell and that the fate of the world was in the balance and they chose to put up a shield and then ignore the world. For ten thousand years they decided ignoring the world was better than interacting with it, and they also knew that their method of ignoring the world was slowly killing them. Then, when refaced with the consequences of their actions from 10,000 years ago they caved and chose to ignore the problem again. This is very important the Shal'dorei in Suramar aren't direct descendants of the ancient Highborne society, they are the Highborne society from 10,000 years ago. Apart from children that grew up, most of the adults are literally the people that were alive and chose to work with Azshara and bringing the Legion to Azeroth, only to get cold feet part way through and then create a shield and ignore everyone.

The only breed of elves that have showed any capability of learning from their mistakes has been the Kaldorei. They make a mistake, it usually brings them to the edge of extinction, but they learn and change. The arcane obsessed offshoots of the Kaldorei have never learned and constantly make it the rest of the world's problem with their choices.

So no, the Shal'dorei and Sin'dorei did not make the correct choice when they joined the Horde, because each time they did so in an attempt to gain or maintain power and not accept responsibility for their past mistakes.
The Sin'dorei rejoining the Alliance would mean they would have to accept that they've made a lot of bad choices since they left Ashenvale.
The Shal'dorei joining the Alliance would mean they would have to reconcile with the Kaldorei, who also made it possible from the Shal'dorei to still exist without the Eye of Amun'thul powering the Nightwell.

Anyways that is my thoughts and rants on the matter. Lady Liadrin isn't savage, she is an intolerably proud and willfully ignorant individual who really should have been best friends with Garrosh, and probably has tea with Sylvanas every other afternoon if she honestly thinks that there is anything right or justified with the Horde's current state. Liadrin is just another case and point that the Light is not inherently good nor does someone using it make them virtuous. I could not see Liadrin ever being welcome in any temple of the Light, be it Light's Hope or the Netherlight Temple after a comment like that, as it does directly conflict with how other practices of the Light believe one should act.



edit:

I think Malf. was not really sleeping he was protecting the "Dreamgrove".

Also he wasn't protecting it the whole time, it's been repeated over and over again. The Druids would protect the Emerald Dream in shifts and when they were not protecting the Emerald Dream they protected the physical world.
You know all of those world trees around Azeroth? Fandral Staghelm planted those to take care of the saronite infestation. Remember saronite, the blood of Yog'saron? One of Yog'saron's escape attempts was to just leak his blood out across the planet and corrupt everything, and he almost succeeded. While Malfurion was in his first Emerald Dream shift, Fandral took care of that problem by planting additional world trees, which stopped the spread of saronite. Malfurion was upset when he woke up later and found out that Fandral had done that because it should have been discussed in detail before executed.
The druids basically took over the jobs of the Red and Green dragonflights between the War of the Ancients and the Third War. The rest of the Night Elf society took over the job of the Black Dragonflight, and protected the world from major external threats.

If you really want to look at a people that saw the world falling apart and did nothing, look at the Zandalari. They did not participate in the War of the Ancients, they did not help anyone or do anything until the return of Hakkar. For all intents and purposes the Zandalari slept for 10,000 years.