Why can't the father choose not to pay the child support if he wants abortion?

[PACOX]

These are very similar arguments used by the prolife crowd.

The problem with the politically prolife crowd is that make no exceptions to the rule. Circumstances be damned.

[De Lupe]

Or considering the number of men on this forum who are on record saying they're not wanting children because women are out to get them -- get a vasectomy.

I choose not to be a father because I'm the oldest of six and I spent a large portion of my teen years assuming the role of parent #3 instead of being, ya know, a teen. I already raised five kids, I ain't raising no more.

[Drutt]

Simple matter of public policy.

Either neither of the couple become parents (abortion or adoption), or they both do. In the vast majority of cases, a situation where only one parent assumes parental responsibilities will ultimately shift the burden of financial responsibility to the state and thus to the taxpayer.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm quite happy that men who suck at using condoms pay for their kid instead of me.

[pathora44]

Yet the pro-choice crowd would rather piss on prevention and abort at convenience, right?

What are you talking about? Pro-Choice people are advocates of sexual education in schools and free clinics like Planned Parenthood that have proven to be one of, if not the biggest, factor in declining pregnancies and STD's in teens. Real proper sex education teaches kids how to have safe and secure sex and Planned Parenthood is a place for all people to receive sexual health check ups. While Pro-Life people are advocates for abstinence education or no sex education at all in schools or closing down all clinics like Planned Parenthood. They think that trying to scare kids into never having sex will prevent pregnancies and std's when, like most things they think, in actuality that causes the rise of pregnancies and STDs.

[tripleh]

Personally, MGTOW

[Moralgy]

Yet the pro-choice crowd would rather piss on prevention and abort at convenience, right?

The pro-life crowd isn't the group that advocates for better access to birth control and sex education. That would be the pro-choice side of this entire thing. I'm not sure where you gathered that the "pro-choice" crowd doesn't give a shit about prevention.

[deenman]

So,if the man has custody,does the woman have to pay child suport?

[Goldielocks]

You are physically incapable of going through pregnancy, so why should you have the right to decide?

The point is to not pay child support if you wanted the abortion as a man, not to have a say in what a woman can do with her own body. These two arguments are entirely different.

I agree with the sentiment. Women get the final say on if their baby comes to term, but she has to deal with the lack of financial support from the man not wanting it. Freedom of choice, not freedom of consequences.

[Rasulis]

I don't care about them getting abortions, I'm pro-choice. But I'm also pro-choice in the fact that if a Woman chooses to keep the Baby the Guy should have the choice to have nothing to do with it.

If she can't pay the way herself, she can always have an abortion.

Have you heard of the term "Contraception Deserts?" You may want to look it up.

To no one's surprise, the states where contraception deserts are most concentrated are the states trying to defund Planned Parenthood in the name of Pro-Life.

Correlation does not imply causation. However, by the strangest coincidence, these are the states with the highest rate of teen pregnancy, highest rate of repeat teen pregnancy, highest infant and maternity mortality rates.

[pathora44]

Have you heard of the term "Contraception Deserts?" You may want to look it up.

To no one's surprise, the states where contraception deserts are most concentrated are the states trying to defund Planned Parenthood in the name of Pro-Life.

Correlation does not imply causation. However, by the strangest coincidence, these are the states with the highest rate of teen pregnancy, highest rate of repeat teen pregnancy, highest infant and maternity mortality rates.

Shit like this is the reason why anyone with a brain sees when Trump and Kavanaugh say Roe v. Wade will not be "overturned" we still get scared. All the funding for clinics like Planned Parenthood going away with it all being funneled to these religious organizations that throw on a white doctor coat and put "clinic" over their building. More of these conservative states pushing more and more laws to make abortion all but impossible to perform. Yet Trump and Kavanaugh will glady stand at the podium waving around the literal skin suit of Roe v. Wade, after the SCOTUS gutted everything from it, saying how it was never "overturned".

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

We pick up the tab for the ones who need it. If the man in question wants zilch to do with a kid and is forward about it during the pregnancy, he should have the same right to opt out as the mother. The mother still has the time to decide on her and possible child's future (abort, adopt, or take care of him/her).

That not always true and you need a job to function. I'm fine with someone whose unemployed having a temporary freeze but if the mother has to raise the child alone. The fatther can pay the 200-300 a month that's nothing.

[Deleted]

Women who abort do suffer from ptsd afterwards and being a parent is hard especially when your poor and single. Those are consequences. It's not special rights it's her body and keep arguing for a lack of personal responsiblity and victim culture.

I didn't appeal to authority ones, I simply said we use biology to justify shit all the time. It's better than feelings which is all you've pointed towards.

So all woman all off a sudden get ptsd from it now, right
Yes you did, you justified a rule by stating the rule.. its a fallacy..

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no I understand it just fine, I just think it's a really stupid argument.

No you don't.

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The mother is also paying in time spent which is more valueable than most child support. The average child support payment is like 430 a month that doesn't make up for working and raising a child. The parent with custody is working a lot harder.

Yes, its normal to pay for things that you choose to have. But the men didn't choose it.

[Pannonian]

How many times has it to be explained before the man rights activist get it?

Women don't get the right to an abortion to opt out of children. Women get the right to abortion because of their bodily integrity. That's a human right. Man have the exact same right, but it won't apply here as they don't get pregnant.

Of course SOME women use this right to opt out of the child, which might be appalling to some of you, but that's a consequence because of human rights.

This is one part of the equation. The other, is the child:

NO one gets to opt out of the responsibility to care for a child. Neither mother, nor father. Also, think about the consequences: If you don't pay, society has to. Why should the rest of us pay because you couldn't bother to use a condom? (an yeah, i know they can malfunction. Well, buckle up buttercup, if you cannot be bothered with children, avoid vaginal intercourse)

[Ishayu]

If you don't want to pay for a child, don't stick it in without a condom.

If a woman doesn't want a child, don't have sex without contraceptives.

Oh wait, feminists don't like that line of reasoning. That would actually make both men and women equally responsible for creating a child. (Excepting the case of rape, which is a crime for a very good reason)

Can't have that.

[Pannonian]

women have more rights then men

that's the way society works in the western world

its impossible to name a right men have that women do not have
its possible to name a right women have that men do not have

on top of that women have better quality of life then men and get to play the victim / receive lesser punishments for their wrong doings

Name one?

And to start. No, not abortion. The right to abort a pregnancy, derives from the right of body integrity, which applies to man as well. if man could get pregnant, this would also apply to them. So that's a non-starter.

[Demontjuh]

NO one gets to opt out of the responsibility to care for a child. Neither mother, nor father. Also, think about the consequences: If you don't pay, society has to. Why should the rest of us pay because you couldn't bother to use a condom? (an yeah, i know they can malfunction. Well, buckle up buttercup, if you cannot be bothered with children, avoid vaginal intercourse)

most biased logic in a while,
why didn't the women use pill or condom?
Or did you mean only the guy wanted the risk of having a kid?
did she not want sex as much as the guy?
or are you saying all guys without condom are rapist?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

So all woman all off a sudden get ptsd from it now, right
Yes you did, you justified a rule by stating the rule.. its a fallacy..

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No you don't.

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Yes, its normal to pay for things that you choose to have. But the men didn't choose it.

I said some women suffer from ptsd afterwards that's not a strawmen that is a fact your really bad at this. I pay for tons of the things, I didn't choose it's called taxes. Also you did make a choice by choosing to have sex or fucking someone raw.

[Pannonian]

most biased logic in a while,
why didn't the women use pill or condom?
Or did you mean only the guy wanted the risk of having a kid?
did she not want sex as much as the guy?
or are you saying all guys without condom are rapist?

Woah, way to go overboard with interpreting what i said mate.

Yeah, if they want to not have a children, they (women) should use contraceptives as well. Not saying contraceptives are the responsibility of only one partner. The thing is though, women can ABUSE their right to bodily integrity to opt out of pregnancy. This is an important distinction to all this "women have more rights" - they don't. The lawgiver doesn't give them an opt-out of pregnancy. De facto != de iure.

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there is a long list let me pull a few out my ass without even thinking

affirmative action from the government
lesser prison sentences from the government
more protection services from the government

Affirmative action is a process, not a law (afaik, could be wrong, not that well versed in every law of the US)
Is there a law saying women HAVE to get lesser prison sentences (that our judical systems works to a degree on emtions is very sad, but doesn't make it a law)
The last one... is too broad for me to answer. What do you mean? Care to give an example?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

there is a long list let me pull a few out my ass without even thinking

affirmative action from the government
lesser prison sentences from the government
more protection services from the government

a woman could force a man to impregnate her and still charge him for child support without her ending up with any sort of punishment from the government

Men can benefit from affirmative action as well. Do you have proof sentencing is based on sex and not behaviour. What protection do women have that men don't?

[Theodarzna]

You mean, as a man, you want to have the power to command what another person does with his body?

Why is it that people can not fathom that their actions have consequences? If you as a guy have sex with a woman there#s a risk of pregnancy. Well, maybe don't fuck around everywhere. How about that?

Getting pregnant would in theory be the consequence of having sex, you are aware that can happen right?