Is it time for tiered content to return?

[Dusty tome]

Please do tell me what was deep about collecting boar shit. If Classic gives you "deep gameplay" you will get it soon but you will never get it in current WoW.

So like I said find another MMO to play cause its clear current WoW isn't for you.

Farming dungeon tier then upgrading it comes to mind. I find it odd how you try to scare me with a past that never was.

[Jtbrig7390]

Farming dungeon tier then upgrading it comes to mind. I find it odd how you try to scare me with a past that never was.

Once again tell me how collecting boar shit was deep gameplay.

[Akka]

It's not really "time for it to return", but rather it was never "time for it to leave".

[Enosh]

wildstar
#hardcore

[Socialhealer]

That's not how this works. You made the claim, prove it.

Also, LFR was only introduced in the last tier of Cataclysm, whereas subs had already been falling. If there's any causal relation, one may say they introduced LFR to staunch the bleeding.

yeah they went up, and up again for MoP then quick shot back down.

while WoD again spiked and shot back down, how much did LFR save? who knows so you have zero idea of its value.

- - - Updated - - -

Once again tell me how collecting boar shit was deep gameplay.

1 quest every x-pac at this point it's just a meme.

[Jtbrig7390]

1 quest every x-pac at this point it's just a meme.

Not the only quest that's like that ether, Its just one example.

Or do you find getting the turtles safely to the water to be a deep quest?

[Socialhealer]

Not the only quest that's like that ether, Its just one example.

Or do you find getting the turtles safely to the water to be a deep quest?

obviously not, but i could pick from the thousands of storyline quests that are good in WoW.

but you do you, cherry pick the worst ones.

[Deleted]

I don't think you explained your point very well.

Wich RNG are you talking about? Cause BfA is better than Legion in that sense. But if it's cause it would be nice to have a deterministic complementory system? I agree.

The content is another topic and really has nothing to do with the RNG.

I am a defender of the TBC model, so, yes, i'd like to see small raids and large raids with just one difficulty. But i can't tell if this is even what you want.

[Icechaosss]

Personally, I'd like to see tiered content return. I quite like the Ulduar model specifically.

However, that will never happen, for a few reasons.

1. When you give someone something, you can't expect to take it back. Flying is a good example of this.
2. The convenience of LFR allows people to log-in, do the raid. Log off and unsub. It's the cyclical model that Blizzard themselves have gone on record to state that WoW has become.
3. People want rewards with minimal effort.

I dislike LFR. I personally feel as though it takes away much of the social aspect of the game. But it's here, and we have to deal with it. In my case, I quite simply don't do it.

I personally see a value to a certain percentage of your playerbase not seeing specific content. However, times have changed and the game isn't going back to the way it was before, save for an entirely new MMO.

WoW is where it is because of the current devs' vision. Don't expect any changes to happen any time soon.

[Draenox]

The fact that people bring up sub numbers of a 14 year old game as an argument to support LFR is killing it is completely asinine, in fact the sub number curve represents the average rise/peak/decline life cycle of a product very accurately, with a few anomalies represented in the early expansion hype trains.
Expecting any game with a lifespan as long as WoW to continuously rise throughout the entire thing is delusional at best, its an old game, in a market where MMO's are not as popular as they used to be 10 years ago.

I used to be a mythic raider, I grew tired of it 3 years ago, yet I still enjoy playing the game sometimes and LFR allows me to experience the content when I feel like it, without having to commit to a guild or go through terrible pug groups.

I dont feel entitled to get gear thrown at me, in fact I dont really care, I want to experience the raid on my different alts in an environment that is totally adaptable to when I feel like playing it.

Mythic still exists, the bosses are getting ever more intricate with every expansion, I honestly dont see the problem outside of people getting triggered over titanforged gear from low content, which is a seperate issue entirely that existed for far less time than LFR ever did.

[Dusty tome]

Once again tell me how collecting boar shit was deep gameplay.

Yeah the wonderland of current slot machines is great. Look you don't like classic wow I get that. Honestly I hope they go old school runescape and just start making new content for it.

Leave me that and I wont darken your door.

[In Ogres We Trust]

I would prefer the following:

a) LFR
b) The raiding model from Ulduar
c) Add the Mythic+ model to raiding (after a certain point within the life cycle of the raid).

Also, the same can be said for running dungeons.

[Kaibhan]

I think OP is correct. Just wish there was a solid MMO that provided that experience I could go to instead.

Things like LFR are a waste. Doing things where there is no chance of failure is not engaging content. Warfronts are impossible to lose. LFR is impossible to lose. Jeez I was on my demon hunter LFR on zek'voz the first week that wing came out and literally fell asleep only to wake up with the raid gone and a new pair of boots.

On the other hand mythic+ doesn't feel engaging either. It's boring running the same dungeons for 2 years with slightly more health and doing slightly more damage each level.

The carrot only works when you eventually get to eat one.

[Berndorf]

I think what happened in wow is that the general population just burned out on raiding itself. Back in wotlk it felt like everyone was running to guilds wanting to raid. It was kind of exciting to be part of the game back then. Since then I think the average player/gamer just has found other things that are new and exciting. Raiding just isn't the cool thing it once was. That's the main problem wow has right now. ie its 10 years later and raiding is still pretty much the end all be all of end game. M+ tried but its self defeating to expect people to try and hit timers while trash gets harder and harder along with all the suffixes and affixes keep piling higher. Its just not fun imo.

[Blizzard Moneybot]

LFR should be a tier behind.

only prior tier mythic gear should be stronger than LFR gear of the next tier. It should be roughly equal to heroic and better than normal. If you don't like this because you don't have enough mythic gear to be above the LFR masses, get better. for the rest of us, being able to do the newest tier's normal within the first week of release will put us way ahead of everyone doing wing 1 of the newest LFR/

[Hyral]

Multiple difficulty levels instead of Hard Modes and the addition of queues have really ruined the game in my opinion. But hey Classic is coming out soon. Shill for it, get all your friends to play it, get everyone you know to play it. If Classic is successful it is possible it could affect the development of nu-WoW as proof you can attract more subs with that type of design.

[h4rr0d]

There was never a gradual difficulty increase, just content requiring higher gear to pass the checks. Often also including resistance checks. Difficulty increase could exist within the raid itself, with the endboss being much harder than the entry boss, but it was never linear, and not exactly preserved between tiers (early next tier bosses easier than previous tier late bosses, no one will say shade of Akama was harder than lady Vashj because he was in the next tier?)

Anyway judging from general participation in raiding and mythic+ majority of playerbase is not interested in beating higher and higher difficulties, only in obtaining easy loot. People who play for challenge, like high key pushing or racing for the leaderboard in mythic raiding are extreme minority. Making a game around them alienates 99% of your paying customers. Gradual difficulty increase means sooner or later they will hit a wall, run out of content, and unsub. That's why also most raids are nerfed over time.

You just quoted the definition of difficulty in this game and then said it's not difficulty increase when it comes to raid tiers? Following that logic, M+ isn't more difficult, just content requiring higher gear either...

The reason people are interested only in obtaining easy loot is, that most of their progress gets invalidated with the next raid release and because doing hard content doesn't necessarily yield better loot. People get their lowest common denominator gear (for some that is HC raid, for some LFR + whatever they get from weekly chest, ...), between the ridiculous scaling of anything non-instanced, loot being gated behind RNG, being handed out for participation, rather than for effort and the impending ilvl reset, getting anything more than that is just not worth the hassle.

I seriously don't understand, why they moved from what was fairly good system by the end of tbc/beginning of wotlk to basically resetting the gear several times during each expansion (which also makes the gear inflation worse).

What would be so bad about there being guilds progressing through all the available raid instances in later stages of the expansion, rather than everyone killing the same stuff, just with different numbers?

[Marrilaife]

You just quoted the definition of difficulty in this game and then said it's not difficulty increase when it comes to raid tiers? Following that logic, M+ isn't more difficult, just content requiring higher gear either...

Gear checks =/= complexity. M+ adds complexity when it adds new affixes. Yes, the difference between 10 and 15 is mostly numbers, you want to do it will less gear it's harder, or you can outgear it later. However the difference between +2 and +10 is 3 affixes and these often throw a wrench in the cogs of pugs who have troubles handling them.

I seriously don't understand, why they moved from what was fairly good system by the end of tbc/beginning of wotlk to basically resetting the gear several times during each expansion (which also makes the gear inflation worse).

What would be so bad about there being guilds progressing through all the available raid instances in later stages of the expansion, rather than everyone killing the same stuff, just with different numbers?

1. There isn't enough playerbase to have them segregated into 4 different raid instances. Even back in tbc when the game had double the playerbase you had basically most people wandering about the entry instances like Karazhan, then the "hardcore guilds" that progressed with the flow and reached to Black Temple and Sunwell, and nothing in the middle. Consolidating playerbase into the same instance fixed the problem of people being stretched too thin.

2. Guilds have constantly players come and go. You need to be able to replace them without excessive poaching or wasting a month gearing fresh recruit up. Therefore catch ups were implemented.

3. The situation from tbc screwed players who didn't play expansion from the start, they were thrown together will all the people who couldn't progress due to lack of skill, and they couldn't progress out of it because as I said before, the middle didn't exist any more.

[Dusty tome]

Multiple difficulty levels instead of Hard Modes and the addition of queues have really ruined the game in my opinion. But hey Classic is coming out soon. Shill for it, get all your friends to play it, get everyone you know to play it. If Classic is successful it is possible it could affect the development of nu-WoW as proof you can attract more subs with that type of design.

Most of the people I know who are still playing mostly talk about it during raiding. We will have a excessive amounts of rogues it seems.

[xcitng]

only prior tier mythic gear should be stronger than LFR gear of the next tier. It should be roughly equal to heroic and better than normal. If you don't like this because you don't have enough mythic gear to be above the LFR masses, get better. for the rest of us, being able to do the newest tier's normal within the first week of release will put us way ahead of everyone doing wing 1 of the newest LFR/

That is not why it should be a tier behind.