A history of not caring

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If I’m enjoying the game why should I care what some worthless streamer or loudmouth doesn’t like? I have some problems with bfa but none of them are the same problems most streamers/youtuber parrot.

[Magistrate]

Subs are going to drop because PC gaming is a niche industry and isn't as accessible as other gaming platforms. The format of the MMO is also in direct conflict with how people tend to experience games these days. I'm not saying there weren't many points where player opinions were obviously disregarded--one of the blues mentioned as much recently on some topic, I forget which, but in the context of BFA beta. But that isn't going to result in a huge trend like that. It's the genre, the format, the technology, the accessibility.

[Maudib]

Well that's great. Stellar evidence there, man.

Look.
I haven't played WoW since Legion. I quit after NH progression, because the current state of the skinners box sucks and it's not for me.

I'd really love them to change the direction of the development, but this leak and these numbers are plainly not correct. Half of the WoW population doesn't have WA installed. Also if you read his other tweets you'll find that this is based on a really badly formulated tweet - the information authenticity is questioned in the same thread.

It actually isn't confirmed either way. The accuracy may be in question... but again... when combined with in-game experience... it jives.

[DisNagaEatinBeans]

Maybe they shouldn't time-gate everything in the most blatant attempt to keep you subscribed possible.

[Maarius]

there are WoW players who started playing with Classic
there are WoW players who started playing with Legion
there are WoW players who enjoy Raids
there are WoW players who enjoy open world leveling
there are WoW players who enjoy PvP
there are WoW players who want a challenge
there are WoW players who want to watch Netflix while chilling in WoW content
there are WoW players who prefer RP
there are WoW players who want many many people around


there are so many different kinds of players and if you ask me nobody is superior to another. Now create a game around that userbase...

[Kyphael]

The game greatly evolved and changed from what the "influential players" knew and loved. It's a double-edged sword. The casuals all flocked to the hottest game then, but not all casuals could before hardcores, so Blizzard naturally made changes to please a general fan base versus the loyalists. They were making more money, I doubt subs would have climbed to Wrath levels if the game had been as difficult from onset as it had been in Classic. There are a lot of variables to consider but that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Is it though? It's hilarious that anyone could log into game and not EASILY tell the subs have been down for a few years. You almost NEVER see someone from your own server... unless you are perhaps on one of the two truly populated servers.

I have no doubt the figured "leaked" are fairly accurate.

That’s such a mornonic metric. I see people from my server all the time and I’m not on a huge one. If your gonna try and push low subs you should really try harder when looking for a straw man.

[Wilfire]

3 pages so far of people proving my point.

[Snackpack]

Why would that be? If you had watched his last post about BfA, he makes some very solid points. But if it's anything deemed negative to the few remaining fanbois... it's ridiculed and attempted to be discredited.
Facts are facts... he has 300,000 subs.. deal with it.

And it's not just him.. Heelvsbabyface has 150,000 and Bellular has almost a half million. Heel is pretty negative and Bellular is finally starting to reveal his distaste for the game. That's a lot of audience, and most agree with their streamer of choice.

It's a strong force of players that are truly disappointed or downright disgusted with the game's current state.

I'm not disputing that he makes some solids points, but anyone who stops playing the game or bases their opinion on what some over-dramatic streamer says, rather than based on their own experience, won't be missed. I may agree with some of their opinions, but it has nothing to do with anyone else spouting it out repeatedly for years.

[Enkrypt]

Uhh, what's an "influential gamer"? And if you're talking about streamers, which I hope you're not, you're talking about like, what, 40-50 popular WoW streamers tops? I wouldn't take feedback from 50 people and apply it to a game with 1,000,000+ subscribers.

Too much hyperbole, not enough data. You're dismissed.

[Deleted]

I simply have zero interest in letting the mechanics of skinner boxes and spreadsheets be my focus when the gameplay and scenarios of this game are great. .

thats the problem though.. the gameplay is not great anymore

[Flarelaine]

Facts are facts... he has 300,000 subs.. deal with it.

I never subscribed to the "ten million flies can't be wrong" school of thought. I am not starting now. 300,000 fanboys echoing does not make his opinion any more valid, just louder.

[Maudib]

Yes, so it's complete hearsay.
And you choose to attribute it to your anecdotal "in-game experience". Sure, you're free to believe in that of course, but don't expect anyone else to do so.

I don't... but the do anyway.

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That’s such a mornonic metric. I see people from my server all the time and I’m not on a huge one. If your gonna try and push low subs you should really try harder when looking for a straw man.

Anecdotal evidence does not make a straw man argument. But kudos for using a big word.

If I was still playing/subbed I would ask you invite me to a group and I'd take some screenshots for the thread... servers are DEAD.

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I'm not disputing that he makes some solids points, but anyone who stops playing the game or bases their opinion on what some over-dramatic streamer says, rather than based on their own experience, won't be missed. I may agree with some of their opinions, but it has nothing to do with anyone else spouting it out repeatedly for years.

Being influential doesn't mean being controlling. He simply states some valid points and people stop to think for themselves... something the fanbois are wont to do. When someone like Asmongold makes a video like the one he just did, it reaches a great deal of people... a large portion of the playerbase, and those people start to really examine why they are unhappy with the game.

[ArenaDk]

Funny enough i play on a server which has one guild at 10/11 Argus, while Bfa is out for a while. Its a pretty dead server. But i see constant people from my server / the connected one. AND I HATE ALL FROM THE CONNECTED ONE. I would love to be phased with other servers. But it seems we wont. Even in bgs , island and dungeons i see people from my server to the point it isnt even special anymore. So dont say you dont see any people from your server if even i can do so.

[Duckypoo]

Cataclysm comes out.
Influential gamers: there are problems with this game that need to be addressed.
Casuals: pfft who cares, I'm enjoying this game!
And then subs dropped.

Actually, the subs dropped with the pre-Cata patch. The one that removed the talent tree and gave us a talent twig. Most classes were in bad shape during that time.

[Awsumpossum]

only "Influential gamers" think they are actually influential, everyone else knows they are just some loud mouth streamers with a fanbase that jumps on any bandwagon they belch

A fan base is the definition of influential.

[Deleted]

The problem with your narrative is that it starts with Cata. The same things happened in TBC and Wrath yet subs were on the rise. Most of the decline in subs, frankly, is that the product aged. At mid-Cata it was 7 years old (assuming mid = 2011).

i think its a combination of a lot of factors. Age being one of them, but also the changes in the game itself

[lollermittens]

This cycle repeats every single goddamn expansion:

1. Game comes out to much fanfare.
2. People quickly realize which systems they don't like.
3. Mass whining/ bitching (very few constructive posts) about why these systems are failures/ suck/ should die.
4. Insistent that their opinion is absolute. Anybody else enjoying the game is a moron and should feel bad for not supporting their subjective opinion.
5. Blizzard releases intermittent updates which address almost every complaint. Never happy; never enough.
6. Keep harassing people enjoying the game for rest of the expansion.
7. New expansion is announced with new feature.
8. All is forgiven.
9. Cycle repeats all over again.

This shit has been going on since BC. What you may not like, thousands of other people do.

What makes your opinion superior to another and why should someone listen to you, is the real question that cannot never be answered.

[kamuimac]

Cataclysm comes out.
Influential gamers: there are problems with this game that need to be addressed.
Casuals: pfft who cares, I'm enjoying this game!
And then subs dropped.

WoD comes out.
Influential gamers: there are problems with this game that need to be addressed.
Casuals: pfft who cares, I'm enjoying this game!
And then subs dropped.

BfA comes out.
Influential gamers: there are problems with this game that need to be addressed.
Casuals: pfft who cares, I'm enjoying this game!
And then subs dropped.

If we, as a community, were more united and vocal, we'd still have reforging, glyphs, tier sets and meaningful progression. But dismissing valid complaints and telling people to quit just because you are too lazy to turn on your brain and think about how the game's systems will play out in the long term is, of course, easier than engaging Blizzard's game devs in constructive discussion.

Every time there is a constructive post spanning a page, most of the replies are "lol who cares" "just quit you loser" "you can't tell me what to enjoy".
You may think you are clever with your witty little retorts, but the game will suffer for it. Are you still going to be having fun once WoW drops below a million subs?

and yet after so many years casuals still having fun and hardcores whining

i bet most of people in game wishes for hardcores to fuck off once and for all and let us enjoy game we like

if you hate game problems is with you not with game

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This cycle repeats every single goddamn expansion:

1. Game comes out to much fanfare.
2. People quickly realize which systems they don't like.
3. Mass whining/ bitching (very few constructive posts) about why these systems are failures/ suck/ should die.
4. Insistent that their opinion is absolute. Anybody else enjoying the game is a moron and should feel bad for not supporting their subjective opinion.
5. Blizzard releases intermittent updates which address almost every complaint. Never happy; never enough.
6. Keep harassing people enjoying the game for rest of the expansion.
7. New expansion is announced with new feature.
8. All is forgiven.
9. Cycle repeats all over again.

This shit has been going on since BC. What you may not like, thousands of other people do.

What makes your opinion superior to another and why should someone listen to you, is the real question that cannot never be answered.

you forgot 10th point - wow is making blizzard more and more income with each year when the game is supposedly failing

BfA was the most financial succesfull launch since vanilla - and neckbears are still whining doom and gloom

its beyond hillarius at this point

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A fan base is the definition of influential.

its not hard to influence morons . politician and religious leaders have been doin it for millenia now .

also not all influence is good . remember hitler ? he influenced germans at some point too . (also he has "fanbase" untill today - look at all those neo-nazis around world even now)

[Deleted]

Such a jealous response. There are influential gamers... Asmongold, Heelzvsbabyface, etc... you may hate them because they are popular and people like them, because they make money playing video games... but the truth is... they have a HUGE following... and that, by definition, makes them influential.

Influetial? Who can they actually influence? Only those who cant have own opinion, mostly younglings who still need heroes and need to grow up to form their own opinion.
Huge following? How huge? Few hundered people? Dont be ridiculous...
Also, how can they know better than any of us individuals? They have some PHD in WoW, so their opinion is somehow worths more than ours? We are playing for more than 12 years and noone can have better opinion than us, noone.