does gear get normalized in arena?

[wholol]

You are just retarded and try to by toxic in funny way but you fail even at it. I played tons of games on AT so i am pretty sure i know more about individual impact in games than you. And no it was not as low mmr as idk 2.5k.

I have been saying it a lot of times on this forum and EU official forums that blizzard made game easier, too easy so your point is so bad that you look at 1700 troll in my eyes

Why are you angry? I wasn't even talking about you, just the general application of how it's hard to explain to players who haven't pvped in prior expansions how it was, you taking it personally has nothing to do with my point.

[GreenJesus]

Yeah, that does't explain a 90% drop-off from one xpac (WoD) to the next (Legion).

Legion removed conquest vendors from PVP.

[Frosteye]

Legion removed conquest vendors from PVP.

Yep.

[sarcasm]And players really love pvping for crappy-low-ilvl RNG loot.[/sarcasm]

Classes really were not that complicated earlier either, I got gladiator multiple times in tbc and wrath and find pvp quite a bit more difficult nowadays, although part is that is probably because the skill level of your average player has increased dramatically. Fake casting in tbc meant you were an amazing player while now it's just something pretty much everyone knows off.

I agree that the average player is a lot better nowadays (the fake casting example is spot on), but I do think that some classes were more complicated back in TBC/WOTLK.

[Cyanu]

What skill ? the game has literally not been about skill for the past 3 expansions.

then why some people get to top ratings while others barely touch 1700?

[wholol]

then why some people get to top ratings while others barely touch 1700?

It's like no one's reading my previous posts properly... there is a difference between the lowest and highest ends of arena but those differences are a lot closer than they were in the past, a lot of abilities were pruned and playstyles were narrowed over the years, class toolkits are much more restricted now than they were a few expansions ago.

[Fitsu]

Feels like this conversations gone sideways a bit....

So, how does the scaling work? Like if I bring a fresh ding warrior into arena will I not be much different to a 350 guy or will they still destroy me?

How do traits/trinks/weapons scale? I.E. Could it be better to have a high ilvl wep/trinks/traits and everything else low to scale as much as you can from stats that give you more per point or is it still better to get as much gear as possible?

[Illana]

Feels like this conversations gone sideways a bit....

So, how does the scaling work? Like if I bring a fresh ding warrior into arena will I not be much different to a 350 guy or will they still destroy me?

How do traits/trinks/weapons scale? I.E. Could it be better to have a high ilvl wep/trinks/traits and everything else low to scale as much as you can from stats that give you more per point or is it still better to get as much gear as possible?

You have 50k hp

Opponent has 100k

You hit hit for 4k on your screen

He sees 8k on his screen

That's a simplified version of what's going on, however there is benefit to having higher ilevel gear, it's just not by a lot

[Fitsu]

You have 50k hp

Opponent has 100k

You hit hit for 4k on your screen

He sees 8k on his screen

That's a simplified version of what's going on, however there is benefit to having higher ilevel gear, it's just not by a lot

What a weird system to go with, I wonder why they just didn't stick with templates as this just seems like a more convoluted version of that.

I'm guessing there's no way people are "cheesing" the system with lower ilvl in certain slots?

[Nuba]

As someone who is playing arena rather than making random posts in forums, I can guarantee that currently gear matters completely in arena, the diference between gear inside and outside of arena is probably maxed out at like 1/10. Gearing is almost as important in arena as it is in mythics

[ilik2345]

As someone who is playing arena rather than making random posts in forums, I can guarantee that currently gear matters completely in arena, the diference between gear inside and outside of arena is probably maxed out at like 1/10. Gearing is almost as important in arena as it is in mythics

Pretty much this, while there is scaling, and you can verify it with a friendly healer in game, its not so much scaling to make gear not matter. Gear very much matters currently - Also its worth noting if your really interested the scaling scales off your hp, not your ilvl.

[Fitsu]

Pretty much this, while there is scaling, and you can verify it with a friendly healer in game, its not so much scaling to make gear not matter. Gear very much matters currently - Also its worth noting if your really interested the scaling scales off your hp, not your ilvl.

Doesn't that effectively make the pvp trink that increases your max hp kinda useless? Or atleast, less useful? As it sounds like having higher HP just makes things hit you harder? Or does having higher HP also make you hit harder, thus making HP increasing things kinda busted?

Also what about things like priest stamina buff? Would be really interesting to see a proper breakdown as to how this works... Although I imagine such a thing doesn't exist.

[fiestatastic]

Competitive PVP (rated) shouldn't be about who has time to be a Mythic Raider

Templates were one of the best things about Legion for competitive arena/rbg.

I guess they were great for the 10% that still participated in Legion pvp ... even out of those it seems like many still complained about the templates while they begrudgingly still pvp'd in Legion.

Very few people actually liked templates.

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4 expansions. mop was the worst dogshit and worse than both legion or bfa.

MoP was the best pvp ever was in this game.

You have a weird opinion if you think it required more skill in the first 3 xpac's. Cata was about the same as MoP, but the first 2 xpac's required very little skill to do well in pvp, definitely less than every other xpac.

[Frosteye]

I guess they were great for the 10% that still participated in Legion pvp ... even out of those it seems like many still complained about the templates while they begrudgingly still pvp'd in Legion.

Very few people actually liked templates.

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MoP was the best pvp ever was in this game.

You have a weird opinion if you think it required more skill in the first 3 xpac's. Cata was about the same as MoP, but the first 2 xpac's required very little skill to do well in pvp, definitely less than every other xpac.

I think dedicated PVPers liked templates in Legion. People who did crossover PVE/PVP did NOT like them. They wanted their overpowered PVE Raiding gear to give them an advantage.

Although -- I'm perfectly OK with templates being gone as long as they give us PVP Vendors. But they didn't do that.

I don't know why a WOD-style PVP Vendor system couldn't be a thing again. PVP Gear that has a lower PVE Item Level, but scales up in PVP Combat to be competitive with Mythic PVE Gear.

[Tyrannica]

gear in any kind of pvp matters, but not as you think it does.

There are people that abused this system to get high rated in arena, for some extra dmg.

They took high ilvl azerite armor and low ilvl gear slots for anything else, but with sockets to provide more secondary stats.

As long as you play a dd spec, i can confirm it does more dmg than just having 10-20 ilvl more, with bad stats.

You know when you get better gear, the gear you really want, or lets say the perfect azerite traits/secondary stats/sockets will be more rare too.

The problem here just is, healing is not calculated like dmg. Healers will always benefit from higher ilvl gear. As hp pools increases and healing won't scale like dmg done.


Its a weird ridiulcous pvp system we got here.


take a look at this vid, it was released very early several weeks ago, when hardly anybody had a clue:



Now to the other special secret topic here

Also i agree on everything wholol just said.

Just really look at the toolkit of classes and how it got pruned over the last expansions.

Legion and BFA class design in pvp makes wod pruning look awesome.

Outplays was a think of past times vanilla-cata.

Really look at the current DK design for frost/uh and blizz reaction to fix it (dead of winter + lichborn= one of the worst synergies i have ever seen, like self mutilation)

I can expand this pruning even to the oh so dominating assassin rogue in current arena metas. He got pruned since legion by very big margin. All those rerlollers for fotm are delusional once numbers get adjusted they got a shallow spec like any other.

At one point i could interrupt on range with a dagger and have 2 vanishes at all time.

Despite kindergarten rating talks, i suggest doing some duels in front of you capitol city and look at the real class balance when it comes to dd specs, with peels and heals in your back that expierence will get faked to a pve expierence, hardly a skillful outplay, when based on your own ability to survive.

Really, Assassin is the best example here, you do a pve rotation for max dps in arenas, and in duels you bend over to any kiting frost mage no matter what, with no meaningful toolkit/survivability in your traits/talenttree for that spec to improve in such a situation when on your own.

I hope blizz does not fuck up with vanilla classic wow too, but they probably will, to make current wow class design and endgame systems look better.

[Jotaux]

I got declined from groups for my ilvl being too high

[Cyanu]

It's like no one's reading my previous posts properly... there is a difference between the lowest and highest ends of arena but those differences are a lot closer than they were in the past, a lot of abilities were pruned and playstyles were narrowed over the years, class toolkits are much more restricted now than they were a few expansions ago.

and this has nothing to do with the game itself

in the past the worst player was some poor guy that had hardly completed 10 bgs and decided to just try to get into the arena while the best was some pro

now the worst player is someone who's obviously bad but he still has played for at least a couple of xpacs vs some pro

so yes the gap is shorter but it's not about the game itself, it's about the community, new players are hated out of the ranked pvp scene nowdays, even the bads are actually veterans with addons and proper comps and stuff

as for the toolkits what you're refering to is essentially homogenization, they just gave everyone everything, so if you look at the individual class you'll feel that it had so much tools but if you look at the big picture you'll see that there's something wrong in a game in which roughly every class has: a stun, a slow, a disorient, an execute, a self heal, a defensive cd, an offensive cd, a buff/debuff, a dot etc, classes have much more character now and since legion pvp is way better in terms of balance than the fiascos of old days

[Super Kami Dende]

What skill ? the game has literally not been about skill for the past 3 expansions.

I find people that say this have never broken 1500 rating in Arena.

[Tyrilion]

What skill ? the game has literally not been about skill for the past 3 expansions.

and out of curiosity, how many glad seasons have you had, OT - they are trying something new.. i like it it makes PVPing more fun when i start an alt, i dont feel like im at a massive disadvantage and thanks to the fact ive played my chars for a very long time i can actually be of use and get kills. I think its great.... bar one thing, 110-119 need to have a little nerf i understand putting up a fight but ive killed palas and warrs on my monk at 116 and i dont think that right, i think that should be a benifit of getting to cap.

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I find people that say this have never broken 1500 rating in Arena.

beat me to it :P

[Dizzeeyooo]

Classes really were not that complicated earlier either, I got gladiator multiple times in tbc and wrath and find pvp quite a bit more difficult nowadays

this is because in tbc and wrath individual player ability was the most important aspect of pvp, compared to wod/legion/bfa where individual ability is massively muted and "team synergy" is now the most important factor - you were gladiator level individually (and probably still are) but now you need a gladiator level team to reach the same level

basically in earlier expansions it was much easier for one individual to carry a team, vs now when individuals on a team don't really matter much compared to the overall synergy a team has - plus now it is massively more important to be playing a comp that actually works, again since individual carry potential is so low

[wholol]

I find people that say this have never broken 1500 rating in Arena.

I could say the same thing about you, it's easy trying to demean people in forums where you have no reference point.