Medivh vs. Lich King

[Terongor]

Where is this stated?

Very Simple, any caster with 1000's of years of experience and a powerful artifact brought by Sargeras himself can do it!

The Spell was said to be ripping the land apart and Medivh(aka captain planet) felt the world was in danger from this very simple and easy ritual.


Citation? Feats? no, ok. Maybe to some stormwind soldiers, but not the Lich King.

Aegwynn gave him the guardian powers and even with Sargeras in him, couldn't kill her, only banish her as she was winning the fight with just her 100's of years of experience.

Legion and chronicles 2 stated that Sargeras power that Aegwynn aimed to lock in tomb of Sargeras was the body of the fallen avatar which makes Eye of Sargeras probably same level as or lower than Scepter of Sargeras. Which makes Titans spirit easily stronger as we see them in Antorus about the titans spirits.

It was stated by Malfurion in the frozen throne not Medivh because.... If you know anything about the lore you should know Medivh wasn't seen after the end of Reign of Chaos and Illidan put 4 nameless nagas to do it.....

He did it to Khadgar and Lich King body wasn't that well magically proctected as we have never seen him having strong magical protection.

It was stated she gave medivh her guardiang powers. Guardiang powers are by defined the powers that the council gives the Guardiang.

[Deleted]

Medivh would win, Anywhere, at any time, in any weather. His mother 1 shotted the avatar of sargeras, the guardians of trissfall are powerhouses like no mortal

[Phasetwist]

I feel like Medivh's power is grossly overstated and over hyped, and it's hard to dispute it even though the most impressive thing he ever did was open The Dark Portal. I mean, when you can raise an ancient Wyrm at a whim and an army of undead who don't have to eat or drink, and attack without becoming tired, it leaves even Sargeras-possessed Medivh in the dust. You can't put the Lich King in a 1 on 1 and just say "yeah ok, but it's no raising undead, it's 1 vs. 1 arena!" Lich King isn't going to accept those terms, he's not Garrosh. His goal was destroying all life on Azeroth not proving his gladiatorial skills. If Medivh is going to be standing against him, he's going to bring an undead army to destroy him, end of story.

Dragon, bro.

[MikeBogina]

Legion and chronicles 2 stated that Sargeras power that Aegwynn aimed to lock in tomb of Sargeras was the body of the fallen avatar which makes Eye of Sargeras probably same level as or lower than Scepter of Sargeras. Which makes Titans spirit easily stronger as we see them in Antorus about the titans spirits.

Enough power to destroy much of Northrend and threaten the World. The Power of the Avatar, which is no longer in the Avatar as of Legion(used to power the portals)... it's not the spirit of Sargeras.

This power is used by Gul'dan to mess with Khadgar for a bit before he transfers it to the portal setup.

Why do you think Sargeras, who's intentions were to bring a huge battery source to power the portals(meaning he didn't need to use his power in his spirit) would also need to bring several powerful artifacts if his soul/spirit held his true power? Because it didn't. He never once shows having more power than Medivh's and there's no way he could have brought it if he wanted to.

It was stated by Malfurion in the frozen throne not Medivh because.... If you know anything about the lore you should know Medivh wasn't seen after the end of Reign of Chaos and Illidan put 4 nameless nagas to do it.....

Ahh that was a typo on my part, i meant to write Malfurion, even saying Captain planet next to it as a joke. Trying to remember how to spell Medivh so much in this thread, I spelled it instead of Malfurion's.
But to that point, Malfurion(Captain Planet) said that the simple and easy ritual threatened the world.

He did it to Khadgar and Lich King body wasn't that well magically proctected as we have never seen him having strong magical protection.

He did it to a young mage in training and the effects wore off. Arthas, a Death Knight that has anti-magic powers, with the power of the Lich King and the Plate of the Damned is not the same. He's said to no longer age(though not enough time was ever given to demonstrate this) and he is even able to rip out his own heart and still live without it.
Medivh has no physical protection at all, case in point how he died. Lich King is the most durable character in the known universe, for his size.

It was stated she gave medivh her guardiang powers. Guardiang powers are by defined the powers that the council gives the Guardiang.

Yup and that power still hasn't been shown to achieve any great feats, making just how powerful it is, unknowable. The fact that she was beating Sargeras possessing Medivh+guardian powers kinda proves the guardian power itself isn't all that you're trying to make it be.

Now I think you want to say Aegwynn is really cool and powerful, and I'll agree with you, she was. She probably was the most powerful of the guardians and much of her feats is because of herself and not the guardian powers. In the hands of others, that power was ok, but in her hands it was quite something. That's because of her and what she made of that power. But you wanted to then lie and say Medivh beat her, which he didn't. She had the upper hand against Guardian Medivh with Sargeras' soul, with just her own power and and knowledge. That makes Medivh(Sargeras possessed) not as powerful as you like to think.

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Dragon, bro.

The Scourge's undead blue dragons are referred to as Frost Wyrms.

[Dravec]

Medivh nearly killed his mother she managed to survive barely and duel a magic and Aegwynn was the one who defeated the avatar of Sargeras. Aegwynn served as the guardisng of Tirisfal for 1000 years slaying many extremely strong demons and if her experience wasn't enough in no way Arthas stands chance.

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What about his duel with Aegwynn who had 1000 years of experience as Guardianf and mastery of magic? Aegwynn survive just barely.

Avatar of Sargeras has done nothing except get its ass kicked. Lich King >>>>> featless Avatar.

All Medivh is is implied power. Aegwynn did one notable thing and that was beat the Avatar of Sargeras that let her beat him.

[Terongor]

Enough power to destroy much of Northrend and threaten the World. The Power of the Avatar, which is no longer in the Avatar as of Legion(used to power the portals)... it's not the spirit of Sargeras.

This power is used by Gul'dan to mess with Khadgar for a bit before he transfers it to the portal setup.

Why do you think Sargeras, who's intentions were to bring a huge battery source to power the portals(meaning he didn't need to use his power in his spirit) would also need to bring several powerful artifacts if his soul/spirit held his true power? Because it didn't. He never once shows having more power than Medivh's and there's no way he could have brought it if he wanted to.

Ahh that was a typo on my part, i meant to write Malfurion, even saying Captain planet next to it as a joke. Trying to remember how to spell Medivh so much in this thread, I spelled it instead of Malfurion's.
But to that point, Malfurion(Captain Planet) said that the simple and easy ritual threatened the world.


He did it to a young mage in training and the effects wore off. Arthas, a Death Knight that has anti-magic powers, with the power of the Lich King and the Plate of the Damned is not the same. He's said to no longer age(though not enough time was ever given to demonstrate this) and he is even able to rip out his own heart and still live without it.
Medivh has no physical protection at all, case in point how he died. Lich King is the most durable character in the known universe, for his size.


Yup and that power still hasn't been shown to achieve any great feats, making just how powerful it is, unknowable. The fact that she was beating Sargeras possessing Medivh+guardian powers kinda proves the guardian power itself isn't all that you're trying to make it be.

Now I think you want to say Aegwynn is really cool and powerful, and I'll agree with you, she was. She probably was the most powerful of the guardians and much of her feats is because of herself and not the guardian powers. In the hands of others, that power was ok, but in her hands it was quite something. That's because of her and what she made of that power. But you wanted to then lie and say Medivh beat her, which he didn't. She had the upper hand against Guardian Medivh with Sargeras' soul, with just her own power and and knowledge. That makes Medivh(Sargeras possessed) not as powerful as you like to think.

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The Scourge's undead blue dragons are referred to as Frost Wyrms.

Malfurion even though killing wild gods would threaten the world itself. Also power of the avatar wasn't used to create the portal during legion it was the portal legion created there during WotA which was closed by using the eye of aman'thul. It was stated demons in tomb feeded on the avatar and Kil'jaedan tried to reanimate it during the raid. It was never stated to come from the avatar.

Even though Dks can make antimagic shields it has never being shown that LK is particulary good at them or makes strong ones.



Still greater feats than any what Arthas or LK could ever accomplish. Also the magic power which she gathered during her 1000 years of guardianship prove with her experience to equal their power gap as the fight focuses on how her magical experience gave her the edge.

It has being many times stated back and forth either medivh of her mother was the strongest guardiang, but lets go with illidan with frostmoune arthas was equall to illidan during RoC but with the powers he got from skull of Guldan outclassed arthas in everyway with even being directly fueled by LK and being in the holy ground of scourge and Arthas managed to only win becausr Illidan toyed with him and let his guard down

But how Illidan talks about Aegwynn it heavily imblies that she outclasses him without guardiang powers. Sargerases spirit still held huge amount of power part of whicch was in medivh) and how Ragnon sensed the eye of sargeras(beyond the dark portal)he imlied it to be of equall strenght with the scepter of sargeras which by itself weren't that strong as KJ had to use scepter and sunwell to make his portal (TBC and was stated in scepter of sargeras resarch notes)

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Avatar of Sargeras has done nothing except get its ass kicked. Lich King >>>>> featless Avatar.

All Medivh is is implied power. Aegwynn did one notable thing and that was beat the Avatar of Sargeras that let her beat him.

What has arthas LK done? Arthas with frostmoune nearly lost uther had to empowered by Ner'zhul, won illidan by luck, ran from.Tirion in lights hope. Oh yeah and fighting equally against weal illidan in RoC. While Aegwynn hunted and killed demons one thousand years.

[derpkitteh]

Avatar of Sargeras has done nothing except get its ass kicked. Lich King >>>>> featless Avatar.

All Medivh is is implied power. Aegwynn did one notable thing and that was beat the Avatar of Sargeras that let her beat him.

some things don't need feats to obviously be stronger than another character. take random unknown demon #119472895 vs. a murloc which you personally saw kill three chickens and steal two sheep.

the avatar of sargeras fought aegwynn and nearly killed her. we don't exactly know how much power sargeras put into this specific avatar, but we have seen other avatars. one fought the lord of the aldrachi in a titanic battle that lasted for quite a while. when he managed to piss sargeras off, he killed the aldrachi instantly. then the next avatar we know of is the one that broxigar wounded. brox fought his way through a great many demons and finally made it to the avatar, and when he struck with his axe that was empowered by all the nature magic of azeroth... it only scratched its leg, and the avatar instantly killed brox in reprisal.

these avatars are no joke, no matter how you want to spin it. i have no doubt that the lich king would die to the avatar's full might.

keep in mind, that lei shin is canonically stronger 1v1 than the lich king. guess what lei shin and the avatar have in common? both were infused with a small portion of a titan's power.

[Life-Binder]

Lich King is overhyped trash personal PL wise

[ThePallyRanger]

Medivh would win, Anywhere, at any time, in any weather. His mother 1 shotted the avatar of sargeras, the guardians of trissfall are powerhouses like no mortal

I have never heard of this. Aegwynn defeated the avatar with a single spell? I was under the impression it was quite the battle.

[Aucald]

I have never heard of this. Aegwynn defeated the avatar with a single spell? I was under the impression it was quite the battle.

It was - Aegywnn actually started the first using Aluneth as her chosen weapon, but Aluneth was resisting her for reasons of its own and its abilities were mostly ignored by Sargeras's avatar. She switched weapons to Atiesh and contended with the avatar for a time before she emerged victorious, using a potent spell that seemed to make the avatar become inert (but may have been due to Sargeras transferring his essence on to Aegwynn's form).

Afterward, Aegwynn would remember the battle as the most brutal she'd ever fought, but she finally destroyed the avatar of Sargeras in an avalanche of arcane might. As she stood triumphant over her fallen foe, she could scarcely believe that she had won. (Source)

[Dravec]

some things don't need feats to obviously be stronger than another character. take random unknown demon #119472895 vs. a murloc which you personally saw kill three chickens and steal two sheep.

the avatar of sargeras fought aegwynn and nearly killed her. we don't exactly know how much power sargeras put into this specific avatar, but we have seen other avatars. one fought the lord of the aldrachi in a titanic battle that lasted for quite a while. when he managed to piss sargeras off, he killed the aldrachi instantly. then the next avatar we know of is the one that broxigar wounded. brox fought his way through a great many demons and finally made it to the avatar, and when he struck with his axe that was empowered by all the nature magic of azeroth... it only scratched its leg, and the avatar instantly killed brox in reprisal.

these avatars are no joke, no matter how you want to spin it. i have no doubt that the lich king would die to the avatar's full might.

keep in mind, that lei shin is canonically stronger 1v1 than the lich king. guess what lei shin and the avatar have in common? both were infused with a small portion of a titan's power.

Lich King one shotted the players after he got bored of testing them. The same players that previously killed a Dragon Aspect and two manifestations of Old Gods.

Unless you want to tell me Aegwynn > Malygos and Old God avatars?

[avitush]

Medivh, easily, and regardless of where the fight takes place.

As for why:

Aegwynn defeated Sargeras with a Legion host single handedly. Aegwynn gave all her guardian powers to Medivh. Aegwynn claimed Medivh's power exceeded her's as guardian around the end of WotLK/start of Cata.

This.

Honestly, I can't think of anyone who could outright beat Sargeras-possessed Guardian Medivh in a 1v1. I can think of a small handful who might put up enough of a fight to make him break a sweat. His power at that stage was insane.

Arthas because Medivh has zero feats besides of opening a portal with Sargeras power as his battery recharge and was killed by Lothar and Dilfgar

That's because he helped them. He was fighting Sargeras with everything he had, and that gave Khadgar and Lothar the chance to finish him off. He mentioned that "Thank you. I fought it for as long as I could" line right before he died.

The fact that Medivh could push Sargeras away for any length of time says a lot. This was Sargeras himself, not some random demon.

[somebodyz]

Lich King one shotted the players after he got bored of testing them. The same players that previously killed a Dragon Aspect and two manifestations of Old Gods.

Unless you want to tell me Aegwynn > Malygos and Old God avatars?

Game play decisions do not always reflect accurate power levels in lore (Or you could say that a monkey or seagull in BFA stomps Onyxia )

And to be honest, the players defeat Malygos "With the assistance of Alexstrasza".

And yes, Dragon Aspects don't want to mess with the Guardians of Tirisfal (even Deathwing avoided Medivh).

Medivh stomps Arthas anyday, at anytime, in any place.

[derpkitteh]

Game play decisions do not always reflect accurate power levels in lore (Or you could say that a monkey or seagull in BFA stomps Onyxia )

And to be honest, the players defeat Malygos "With the assistance of Alexstrasza".

And yes, Dragon Aspects don't want to mess with the Guardians of Tirisfal (even Deathwing avoided Medivh).

i don't think alex or malygos would have lost to medivh.

the problem for deathwing was that he was very weak to magic based enemies. when you've got a guy that's just below malygos, who deathwing knew he would lose to, then yeah he'd think twice about tangling with medivh.

the nature of the guardian of tirisfal buff makes sure it would eventually grow stronger than an aspect though.

[Dravec]

Game play decisions do not always reflect accurate power levels in lore (Or you could say that a monkey or seagull in BFA stomps Onyxia )

And to be honest, the players defeat Malygos "With the assistance of Alexstrasza".

And yes, Dragon Aspects don't want to mess with the Guardians of Tirisfal (even Deathwing avoided Medivh).

Medivh stomps Arthas anyday, at anytime, in any place.

Deathwing was not afraid of Medivh lmfao what? Wasn't that from some Knaak book too? The same guy that wrote the Old Gods would rape Sargeras if they got free? Deathwing would fart Medivh into a molten pool.

Aspects wouldn't give the Guardian the light of day. All Medivh is hyped power. He has done literally nothing to say he beats Arthas.

It's not a game mechanic either. It's literally the entire reason the LK let us get all the way to him. He wanted to test us to see if we were worthy, and once he deemed it so he killed us like gnats.

Argus killing us must of been a game mechanic too. Avatar of Sargeras and Medivh >>>>>>>>>>>> Argus confirmed?

[Bling]

i don't think alex or malygos would have lost to medivh.

the problem for deathwing was that he was very weak to magic based enemies. when you've got a guy that's just below malygos, who deathwing knew he would lose to, then yeah he'd think twice about tangling with medivh.

the nature of the guardian of tirisfal buff makes sure it would eventually grow stronger than an aspect though.

Deathwing wasn't weak to magic at all. Reread that novel. Deathwing basically had a whole regiment of spellcasters lead by Khadgar failing to even touch him with everything they threw at him. Nothing was even phasing him, he was holding off Gruul and an entire army and winning. It was only in the final moments that Khadgar thought to outwit Deathwing's magical protections by using a nonattacking spell to weaken the plates holding him together, something he had to get right up next to him to do. Not really even hurting Deathwing, Deathwing had to flee because Deathwing couldn't contain his own power without his plates holding his power in.

And its also a confirmed fact that Deathwing was the second most powerful magic user on Azeroth after Malygos during the War of the Ancients.

[derpkitteh]

Deathwing wasn't weak to magic at all. Reread that novel. Deathwing basically had a whole regiment of spellcasters lead by Khadgar failing to even touch him with everything they threw at him. Nothing was even phasing him, he was holding off Gruul and an entire army and winning. It was only in the final moments that Khadgar thought to outwit Deathwing's magical protections by using a nonattacking spell to weaken the plates holding him together, something he had to get right up next to him to do. Not really even hurting Deathwing, Deathwing had to flee because Deathwing couldn't contain his own power without his plates holding his power in.

And its also a confirmed fact that Deathwing was the second most powerful magic user on Azeroth after Malygos during the War of the Ancients.

that's what i mean by weak to it, you can take apart his plates with it.

and deathwing knew malygos would fuck him up.

[Terongor]

Lich King one shotted the players after he got bored of testing them. The same players that previously killed a Dragon Aspect and two manifestations of Old Gods.

Unless you want to tell me Aegwynn > Malygos and Old God avatars?

It was stated that Lei Shen would beat Arthas lich king 1v1 and we didn't even need help against Lei shen. https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status...73579591680who lead the wow team when he stated that so its canon.

Lei Shen had to fight Xuen for 30 days and night who is of an stronger side from the wild gods. While it was stated in tomb of sargeras if kil'jaedan reawakens fully the fallen avatar no power on azeroth could stand a change against him which shows it would have being stronger than KJ.

Archi and KJ are about the same strenght. So when we take account how easily and fastly Archimonde killed Malorne during WotA who is stated to be strongest wild god. From them we asses anyone who beats avatar of sargeras is stronger than Lei Shen or malorne.

[Dravec]

It was stated that Lei Shen would beat Arthas lich king 1v1 and we didn't even need help against Lei shen. https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status...73579591680who lead the wow team when he stated that so its canon.

Lei Shen had to fight Xuen for 30 days and night who is of an stronger side from the wild gods. While it was stated in tomb of sargeras if kil'jaedan reawakens fully the fallen avatar no power on azeroth could stand a change against him which shows it would have being stronger than KJ.

Archi and KJ are about the same strenght. So when we take account how easily and fastly Archimonde killed Malorne during WotA who is stated to be strongest wild god. From them we asses anyone who beats avatar of sargeras is stronger than Lei Shen or malorne.

Yeah, and KJ started to freak out about how powerful the LK was getting back in W3, and that was before the merge with Arthas. I don't know if you've noticed, but demons tend to exaggerate a lot. Hence why the meme "enough!" and "puny mortal" came about. Also, feats > statements. You know how many statements like that have been made in WoW?

"If Kil'Jaeden comes through to Azeroth, the world will be thrown in a war it hasn't seen in 10,000 years!" - An NPC on IoD or Kalecgos, can't remember which.

"If Galakrond is raised, the Scourge will be unstoppable!" - Wyrmrest Temple

"Without the LK, the Scourge will be impossible to defeat!" - King "Jobber" Terenas Menethil

Hell, the most recent one is about Mythrax, and how if he is revived all of Zandalar is doomed.

So what Lei Shen is stronger than LK? Still doesn't change the fact that Arthas killed the players easily, and way before they ever fought Lei Shen. Players keep growing in power with every expansion. In Legion we killed a fucking Titan.

LK > Wrath Players > Yogg-Saron avatar and Malygos.

[Terongor]

Yeah, and KJ started to freak out about how powerful the LK was getting back in W3, and that was before the merge with Arthas. I don't know if you've noticed, but demons tend to exaggerate a lot. Hence why the meme "enough!" and "puny mortal" came about. Also, feats > statements. You know how many statements like that have been made in WoW?

"If Kil'Jaeden comes through to Azeroth, the world will be thrown in a war it hasn't seen in 10,000 years!" - An NPC on IoD or Kalecgos, can't remember which.

"If Galakrond is raised, the Scourge will be unstoppable!" - Wyrmrest Temple

"Without the LK, the Scourge will be impossible to defeat!" - King "Jobber" Terenas Menethil

Hell, the most recent one is about Mythrax, and how if he is revived all of Zandalar is doomed.

So what Lei Shen is stronger than LK? Still doesn't change the fact that Arthas killed the players easily, and way before they ever fought Lei Shen. Players keep growing in power with every expansion. In Legion we killed a fucking Titan.

LK > Wrath Players > Yogg-Saron avatar and Malygos.

1) you don't use quation marks if you don't remember the exact quote.

2) Blizzard have stated many times the scourge was the threat not the lich king. As Teranas " without its master command the restless scourge will become even greater threat to this world. Control must be maintained, there must always be a lich king" nothing that it would be imposibble.

Also link the exact quote about Galakrond.

Also the yes the comming of KJ during sunwell was said that nothing about the scourge.

KJ is one of the smartest commanders of the legion and he would have spend so much effort in reawakening Avatar of Sargeras if it wasn't worth it. Also it was stated by Aegwynn that no power in this world could stop the avatar of Sargeras if it was reawakened properly.

Also as we read in chronicles 3 KJ wasn' t scared of LK but wanted to punish him. Against avatar of yogg-saron we had the full support of titans keepers who at that point still had the souls of patheon and their power what they should in antorus.

Which still makes Aegwynn stronger than LK