Asmongold, voice of many, shares his thoughts on current state of WoW

[Noomz]

Care to please point me to where he or any other youtuber/streamer initiated the current shit show of a social media crisis at Blizz hands? In return I can point you to dozens of threads in this very forum foreseeing the current situation when BfA was still in beta. We can then come again to the hen/egg question, your frustration maybe aside by then.

Also - only because everyone is trying to sell crap doesn’t mean people should accept the best of crap as something fantastic, which it isn’t.

I think you're makign a strawman and ignoring what I wrote. I would prefer you adressed what I said first. No offense intended.

What's the alternative? It's the essence of what makes an MMORPG. Nobody has done it differently, nobody is doing it differently and nobody is capable of doing it differently. Many MMO's die or never even see any kind of success. Especially if you try to be different and break the mold.
I don't think you understand the amount of money and work that goes into making content for an MMO with several million players.

They currently have what, 2 different teams working on WoW? THey have that so that they're even remotely able to provide content and expansions quickly and reliably.
At no point in WoW's history, have you had content faster or more abundant than now.
It was always the same, there was always a grind of reputation, gear, alts and so on. In fact, it was waaaaaaaaaay worse the further back in WoW's history you go. WoW has never been more accessible and easier than it is now.
So I think you're ignorant of what you have and ignorant of what is reasonable to expect. Because if Blizzard took more time to develop each expansion and each content patch for them, you'd get more content but it'd take longer for you to get it. There's a limit to how much better something can get by just throwing money and people at it. I have no idea how much money Blizzard currently spend on making WoW, but I reckon that running 2 teams (I think it's 2. ARe there more?) is neither cheap nor easy.


This is NOT to say that there aren't problems. Every expansion has problems and I've yet to play a single MMO that doesn't have problems with content or the lack thereof. But seriously, the grass doesn't get greener than this. This grass is pristine.
I encourage you to widen your experiences and try other MMO's. It will help you understand what's good and what's not.

[oathy]

Do you seriously not realize those aren’t his videos? Fans make them and post them on YouTube. He rarely makes YouTube vids himself anymore and when he does they aren’t reactions videos. Those are all fan made.

least that makes sense why "his" videos keep coming through my you tube suggestions
blocked his content a while ago and that's all I still get are videos linked with him.
said in another thread those people that like his views fair enough.

Just find Bellular/ T&E and Hazel just in another league.
Bellular has been basically all over the issues the Game currently has
even when some of the community were really going for him.

Still think the suggestion he made about the necklace being the focal point
of a new talent system and dropping the other Azerite items is the best way forward

[slalmon]

I think you're makign a strawman and ignoring what I wrote. I would prefer you adressed what I said first. No offense intended.

What's the alternative? It's the essence of what makes an MMORPG. Nobody has done it differently, nobody is doing it differently and nobody is capable of doing it differently. Many MMO's die or never even see any kind of success. Especially if you try to be different and break the mold.
I don't think you understand the amount of money and work that goes into making content for an MMO with several million players.

They currently have what, 2 different teams working on WoW? THey have that so that they're even remotely able to provide content and expansions quickly and reliably.
At no point in WoW's history, have you had content faster or more abundant than now.
It was always the same, there was always a grind of reputation, gear, alts and so on. In fact, it was waaaaaaaaaay worse the further back in WoW's history you go. WoW has never been more accessible and easier than it is now.
So I think you're ignorant of what you have and ignorant of what is reasonable to expect. Because if Blizzard took more time to develop each expansion and each content patch for them, you'd get more content but it'd take longer for you to get it. There's a limit to how much better something can get by just throwing money and people at it. I have no idea how much money Blizzard currently spend on making WoW, but I reckon that running 2 teams (I think it's 2. ARe there more?) is neither cheap nor easy.


This is NOT to say that there aren't problems. Every expansion has problems and I've yet to play a single MMO that doesn't have problems with content or the lack thereof. But seriously, the grass doesn't get greener than this. This grass is pristine.
I encourage you to widen your experiences and try other MMO's. It will help you understand what's good and what's not.

I am with you and agree with what you are saying. I think what is probably just becoming clear is that a large number of folks on forums like this (people who are "elite" or think they are ) really just have a fundamental problem with any kind of accessibility.

This is the same tired 'welfare epics' bullshit of BC but just updated with added incivility and snark for 2018

[Noomz]

I am with you and agree with what you are saying. I think what is probably just becoming clear is that a large number of folks on forums like this (people who are "elite" or think they are ) really just have a fundamental problem with any kind of accessibility.

This is the same tired 'welfare epics' bullshit of BC but just updated with added incivility and snark for 2018

WHich brings me to another point that's really important: THey are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

If they make things easy and accessible, it's a much better environment for new players to come in to.
If they make it the opposite, you may get a hardcore audience but it WILL be smaller because you're getting a considerably lower influx of new players.

No matter what decision Blizzard takes, someone will like it and someone will dislike it. It's utterly impossible to avoid. But what people need to do is to consider wether or not it's actually worth getting up in arms about something or if they can stop, take this thing into consideration, and accept that you won't get everything every time.
People need to remember that unless you want exactly the same thing given to you all the time, there will be changes to things and how things work, and eventually you will come across changes you won't agree with.
An MMO needs to change or it becomes stale and dies. It's a walk of balancing that most people have no idea how hard it is to develop for. Especially when the same people keep demanding MORE content, FASTER.

WHich reminds me about the reason WoW, vanilla WoW, was successfull at all to begin with: It was waaaaaaaaay more accessible than any other MMO back then.

If people really don't think WoW is any good, they honestly should take a break from the game and try something else. Get some perspective.
I've played Guild Wars 2, FF14, Wildstar (RIP), Tera and BDO. The one I think is more on par with WoW is FF14, but they've far less content with much more time in between it and MUCH more grind. Plus the fact that it has instanced zones, which really ruins my immersion and enjoyment.

[slalmon]

WHich brings me to another point that's really important: THey are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

If they make things easy and accessible, it's a much better environment for new players to come in to.
If they make it the opposite, you may get a hardcore audience but it WILL be smaller because you're getting a considerably lower influx of new players.

No matter what decision Blizzard takes, someone will like it and someone will dislike it. It's utterly impossible to avoid. But what people need to do is to consider wether or not it's actually worth getting up in arms about something or if they can stop, take this thing into consideration, and accept that you won't get everything every time.
People need to remember that unless you want exactly the same thing given to you all the time, there will be changes to things and how things work, and eventually you will come across changes you won't agree with.
An MMO needs to change or it becomes stale and dies. It's a walk of balancing that most people have no idea how hard it is to develop for. Especially when the same people keep demanding MORE content, FASTER.

WHich reminds me about the reason WoW, vanilla WoW, was successfull at all to begin with: It was waaaaaaaaay more accessible than any other MMO back then.

If people really don't think WoW is any good, they honestly should take a break from the game and try something else. Get some perspective.
I've played Guild Wars 2, FF14, Wildstar (RIP), Tera and BDO. The one I think is more on par with WoW is FF14, but they've far less content with much more time in between it and MUCH more grind. Plus the fact that it has instanced zones, which really ruins my immersion and enjoyment.

Hah, totally!! I think people don't know or don't remember how much better WoW was compared to say Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online (my first MMO lol), Everquest, etc. Accessibility was the key to it being better.

I think you are right on re: narrow hardcore audience over time is a limiter on keeping your game going. If all WoW had left at this point was Mythic raiders it wouldn't be around

In another thread I was laughing because some dude was like "I want new systems, BFA has to much content..." I mean what are you supposed to do with feedback like that when for 14 years people have been telling your team... "Yo, you don't give us enough content!". I would much rather have lots of content to play through than a bunch of weird sub-systems to micromanage that get in the way of playing the game.

I think at this point Blizzard wins by making new content and keeping things fresh in the game. Sometimes it doesn't work, or isn't quite what we expected or wanted. I am cool with it though as I know they will try to do their best to make it right and then iterate on it for the future and probably give me something even better!

New is hard, really hard. Doing new features in a 14 old product (especially a game like this) must be exceedingly difficult. As you say, you can't win either way.

[InfiniteRetro]

At this point every other mmo on the market that every person laughs at has actual progression and doesn't cull skills because #reasons. wow is a f'ing joke now. no other mmo is doing what they have done and you can crack on the korean mmos all you like for their grind but i have to ask...u really think wow is different now? fuck me im surprised the login screen isnt rng enabled. "sorry sir, better luck in an hour to try and access your product"

[Sastank]

But you haven't refuted anything he's said with any sort of real logic, reasoning, or fact. You've illogically claimed his stream content is evidence that his points should be ignored. Your latest statement alone, having next-to-nothing relevant to asmongolds video, shows it's just garbage to be ignored.

As is his video, and your needlessly snarky replies.

[Deleted]

Agree with him. I also dont like mythic plus, all different raids difficulties, flying mounts, teleporting, phasing and so on. For me it kills good RPG feel. Wow doesnt feel like a big mmo world. Wow is so focus on loot and not the adventure or the world. Players should have more powers what can be done, but we need wow 2 and that will never happen until people stop enjoying this treadmill.

[Craaazyyy]

you must be a kid or you would know mythic level content use to reward lower ilvl or the same ilvl as heroic level content

you must be new to this game aka young aka a kid

congrats on lacking knowledge

never did

unless you go back to wrath and 10m vs 25m heroics

and 10m were just much easier than 25m

if anything you lack knowledge

cuz higher difficulty used to always give higher ilvl gear

[Doomchicken]

Agree with him. I also dont like mythic plus, all different raids difficulties, flying mounts, teleporting, phasing and so on. For me it kills good RPG feel. Wow doesnt feel like a big mmo world. Wow is so focus on loot and not the adventure or the world. Players should have more powers what can be done, but we need wow 2 and that will never happen until people stop enjoying this treadmill.

If they ever make a WoW 2, they will never and I repeat NEVER make it like the way you want it. They do that they will die as quickly as wildstar.

[mich4el]

Classic WoW is and always was a dumpster fire right out of the box. So Blizzard could take a huge dump on it and it'd be an improvement.


Listen up, genius. Not as many people give a fuck about Classic as you think they do. I sure as Hell don't. I would rather cancel my sub and play a completely different game instead of pissing about with a 14 year old relic that has been dug up out of the nearby cesspit. I don't doubt people will try out the game merely as a curiosity. But when they see how slow, archaic, imbalanced, bug ridden and generally shitty the game was back then, they'll immediately drop it like a bad habit.

Stop acting like Classic is going to immediately kill retail. Such a mindset is just as stupidly asinine as thinking VHS will come back to kill DVD's.

If you think that retail has any chance to not collapse the second classic launch you are completely delusional and insane too. Tbh nobody cares if an idiot like you stop playing as we will better off without you. Players like you drag the game down into a slot machine / cash shop garbage for new age suckers like you who thinks that this is what gaming is all about.

Your kind is unwelcome in classic and wow in general.

[Daffan]

Too much welfare and catchup = content drought and aura of "who cares nothing matters" mentality.

[Craaazyyy]

10m were the same amount of difficulty as the 25man but it was easier to get 10 people at that skill level then 25 people at that skill level back then did you even do that content or are you ignorant of it

once again you are ignorant thinking people doing 10man mythic were rewarded a higher ilvl then the standard heroic raids witch were much easier

they were never rewarded with higher ilvl

no it wasnt.. 10m in ICC, for example, was cleared almost a month earlier than 25m

in Cata when they actually merged 10m and 25m, 10m actually was as hard as 25m on average(some bosses were harder, some were not)

also 10m "MYTHIC" was never a thing.. it was heroic

also when 10m was rewarding worse gear it was easier than 25m and i already explained that

when they made 10m and 25m have the same difficulty they made gear drops have the same ilvl


you have no idea what you even talking about, so im done arguing with idiots

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

He had some points, but lost me with others. He seemed to be saying he preferred grinds with guaranteed rewards over RNG. In my experience, players complain about both. All rewards in the history of WoW have fallen into one of four categories, as best I can remember, with most of them falling in the first two:

1. RNG loot drops - kill the same target or targets until what you want drops. Might get lucky first try, or may take forever RNG.
2. Grind for guaranteed reward, e.g., rep grinds, AP grinds, badges
3. Special Challenges, e.g. Mage Tower - you only have to beat them once, but may take many tries.
4. Catch up mechanisms - mostly there so no one says "I'm so far behind there's no point in coming back"

Each of these have their place, and the game is best when they are balanced, imho. So if you're having bad luck streak on RNG drops, you can console yourself by grinding something guaranteed. If you are tired of the grind, you can queue for raid or M+ and hope for lucky drop.

But no matter the expansion or patch, it is guaranteed that players will complain. Grinds are boring, RNG is frustrating, Mage Tower is elitist, catch-ups aren't fair to those who had already earned it, etc etc etc.

Does BfA have issues? Yes obviously.
Has the direction of the game fundamentally changed? Not as much as Asmongold makes out, imho.

[Craaazyyy]

it was Mythic level difficulty you could activate mythic level difficulty mode for each boss

its like you children have no idea about the history of WoW

no you couldnt, jesus christ you're dumb

the only time you needed to activate harder difficulty(it was called hardmode btw) was ulduar.. and it was rewarding higher ilvl gear bonus gear

[vashe9]

During MoP and Legion there were a ton of healthy posts, guess why there aren't that much around anymore. Surely not because BfA is such a huge success, right? Perhaps someone as shortsighted as you should try to make the connection between "a lot of people are unhappy about this addon so there a lot of unhealthy posts".

Because we're in the 2018 "Trump Era - Make america hateful again" where everyone is entitled to bash on everything. And not only in the US, it's the same in Europe too.

Imagine the BS if Ion was "not white". I don't even want to imagine it.

[Tinytalon]

People who listen to streamers and Youtubers often forget to have their own opinions based on what they themselves like, not just what the streamer/Youtuber thinks about certain things. That being said, I never have and never will consider these kind of people the voice of many. Most of their opinions are based on their own taste, and people blindly follow without thinking if they actually agree 100%.

[Tekkommo]

10m were the same amount of difficulty as the 25man but it was easier to get 10 people at that skill level then 25 people at that skill level back then did you even do that content or are you ignorant of it

once again you are ignorant thinking people doing 10man mythic were rewarded a higher ilvl then the standard heroic raids witch were much easier

they were never rewarded with higher ilvl

In no way 10 man was the same difficulty as 25 man in WotLK. 25 man was already simple, but 10 man was so much easier.

They tried to make it the same in Cata and failed, 10 man ended up being harder, but rewarded the same loot as 25 man.

Not sure why you keep on insulting the person for apparently not knowing the history of WoW, when you repeatedly refer to old content which was called Heroic, as Mythic, which didn't come till WoD for raids.

[Deleted]

Because we're in the 2018 "Trump Era - Make america hateful again" where everyone is entitled to bash on everything. And not only in the US, it's the same in Europe too.

Imagine the BS if Ion was "not white". I don't even want to imagine it.

Are you fucking drink or what?

Don't try to deflect on some " durr people are gonna Trump mode "


BfA is in a terrible state compared to Legion or MoP.

End of story, the fact that there is a lot of criticism is just a consequence of bad management from Blizzard.

[Stormwolf64]

Dont you just love this trend. People not gifted in the upstairs compartment gobble this shit up because they're not bright enough to think about these things themselves. Do some self reflection and rethink your life.