Are no realistic alternative MMO's to blame?

[Naked Snake]

To be honest, what do you wanna do in terms of MMOs that is different? I'm sure if anyone had a great idea, that MMO would be out already. Do you have any ideas to revolutionize the genre?

At the end of the day, all you can do is copy WoW and find your niche, like a Star Wars MMO or Lord of the Rings MMO, or Final Fantasy MMO. Those are the only IPs that have a big fanbase. Everything that is completely new just feels like generic Fantasy/Science Fiction.

People will rather stay with a game they've known for years than try something new that feels like a cheap copy of it.

[Lochton]

It was treated as a meme child because the developers was idiots from day 1. The whole "We bringing back the hardcore MMO for the hardware player" was a really stupid idea. On top of that the game itself was a broken mess for a long time.

Not to mention they treated it as a joke with it apparently being like the roots of WoW but better. And the whole, 'Way to go cupcake' and such. They had a chance but the developers were too high on themselves to see they were going way off-road. And to think, some of them were from Blizzard and the WoW teams. So, we can't always pin it on the Blizzard teams, just how some developers become.

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To be honest, what do you wanna do in terms of MMOs that is different? I'm sure if anyone had a great idea that MMO would be out already. Do you have any ideas to revolutionize the genre?

At the end of the day, all you can do is copy WoW and find your niche, like a Star Wars MMO or Lord of the Rings MMO, or Final Fantasy MMO. Those are the only IPs that have a big fanbase. Everything that is completely new just feels like generic Fantasy/Science Fiction.

People will rather stay with a game they've known for years than try something new that feels like a cheap copy of it.

Don't think many do.

[Jtbrig7390]

Not to mention they treated it as a joke with it apparently being like the roots of WoW but better. And the whole, 'Way to go cupcake' and such. They had a chance but the developers were too high on themselves to see they were going way off-road. And to think, some of them were from Blizzard and the WoW teams. So, we can't always pin it on the Blizzard teams, just how some developers become.

Yep, Wildstar sealed its fate the moment they started all that shit.

[Eleccybubb]

Yep, Wildstar sealed its fate the moment they started all that shit.

Wildstar was just a fucking mess.

And the best part was WoW had forum posts saying Wildstar would kill it back then.

Oh how the tables have turned.

Oh and OP. There are plenty of MMOs in the West that are just as popular as WoW and have a sizeable playerbase. So you are either not looking hard enough or just showing this "WoW only MMO" mantra.

[kamuimac]

Hey

<Can't remember my log in for my normal mmo champ account so had to make a new>

As a WoW addict since TBC I've always read the mmo champion forums to see if people have similar views to myself.

Every day its practically the same discussions about the state of BFA (good or bad depending on your point of view) - personally i'm in the "bad" camp for reasons that have already been stated by people on here a million times

For me the reason I play WoW and continue to sub despite all the issues that I think are pretty awful is simple (1) I love MMO's (the whole concept) (2) I have over the years built up many friends and such in game

My main reason for posting is do others think that the lack of competition in the mmo market allowed blizzard to become somewhat lazy and arrogant with WoW?

Yes there FF and ESO etc but in the west / Europe its still all about WoW and has been since like forever.

Blizzard know people still love MMO's - they know people are tightly connected with people they have gamed with for 10+ years and will continue to sub to play together - has this made them less bothered with negative press and obvious issues in game - yes Azerite I am looking at you at the moment.

Every good business is pushed to improve by having healthy competition to ensure they continue to provide the best product on the market - else they lose revenue / crash / burn / die. WoW has no real competitors - they have seen them all off , they have been killed off by the WoW behemoth.

If WoW had serious active competition for its player base - do you think we would have BFA in the state its in ? - My opinion on BFA personally I know some people think its great of course that's fine its all about opinion at the end of the day.

it is the same because if you have the same 100-200 people commenting over and over in every single of those threads its bound to be the same

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Wildstar was just a fucking mess.

And the best part was WoW had forum posts saying Wildstar would kill it back then.

Oh how the tables have turned.

Oh and OP. There are plenty of MMOs in the West that are just as popular as WoW and have a sizeable playerbase. So you are either not looking hard enough or just showing this "WoW only MMO" mantra.

and the reason it was such mess was exackly because it cared only to toxic hardcore crowd.

it was failure already before launch when it decided to follow hardcore way .

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To be honest, what do you wanna do in terms of MMOs that is different? I'm sure if anyone had a great idea, that MMO would be out already. Do you have any ideas to revolutionize the genre?

At the end of the day, all you can do is copy WoW and find your niche, like a Star Wars MMO or Lord of the Rings MMO, or Final Fantasy MMO. Those are the only IPs that have a big fanbase. Everything that is completely new just feels like generic Fantasy/Science Fiction.

People will rather stay with a game they've known for years than try something new that feels like a cheap copy of it.

hm i have also feeling that people are afraid of trying new mmorpgs because they are afraid to loose their "avatars"

just look at wildstar - with some people putting hundreds of hours/days and now ? now its all lost and gone forever.

i know i am quite attached to my toons in wow - i couldnt care less about their itlv / progression but i feel attached to them after all those 15 years due to all emotions during playing over year people i met while playing on them etc etc .

i know i wouldnt risk it in another game knowing i could loose them

[this is caranthir]

To be honest, what do you wanna do in terms of MMOs that is different? I'm sure if anyone had a great idea, that MMO would be out already. Do you have any ideas to revolutionize the genre?

At the end of the day, all you can do is copy WoW and find your niche, like a Star Wars MMO or Lord of the Rings MMO, or Final Fantasy MMO. Those are the only IPs that have a big fanbase. Everything that is completely new just feels like generic Fantasy/Science Fiction.

People will rather stay with a game they've known for years than try something new that feels like a cheap copy of it.

I honestly would still be playing SWToR if it didn't start as a complete mess, the story side was much better than anything i ever experienced in wow.

[Jibjub]

Like all Blizzard games for the last (I dunno) 10 years, they are about making as much money as possible and not being the best game (or most innovative) on the market. They make very profitable games. I don't think this is inherently bad, but it does mean that they take very few risks. And it also means they copy what works and then just do that better (also, not a bad strategy).

They also deliberately make very addictive games -- more about the illusion of fun than actual fun. I'd be willing to bet they've spent A LOT of money on learning about the human brain (and I wouldn't be surprised if they had neurosciences and psychologists on staff -- which I am also willing to bet further that they didn't do so as much when developing Warcraft RTS games and original WoW).

I would also be willing to bet that the sub increases and decreases throughout an expansions cycle are not at all surprising to them. They probably have all that shit mapped out. With almost 15 years of data, they know what players are staying, which are quitting, and which are coming back (and for how long).

[ONCHEhap]

And there has been many games with premise but that lost their chances thanks to even worse decisions than WoW.

A great example of that would be Lord of the Rings Online
It had so many great ideas,and did a lot of things much better than WoW,but the devs and the publishers just threw it all away.It's to the point where playing it,especially if you remember how some systems worked before they got removed/change is a really sad feeling as you can't help to think about what could have been

[unbound]

Yes there FF and ESO etc but in the west / Europe its still all about WoW and has been since like forever.

You've basically pointed to inertia here, and likely a bit of confusion regarding those competing products.

MMO-Champion is really all about WoW, so you are looking at a microcosm here, not a true reflection of the masses. FFXIV, at least, is likely more successful right now than current WoW. But if you most of your news is coming from this site and from corporate PR, you won't know that.

As for loyalty to this game (aka inertia), people like the calming effect of something they know, and, in many cases, people that they know. Unless all of their friends jump to a different game, this is where many will stay. And looking at any other competing product will invariably result in over-emphasizing things you don't like about the competing product as well as over-emphasizing things you do like about the current product (this is also true in many other areas such as cars, phones, consoles, etc).

Long ago I moved someone from an old dedicated typing hardware (very basic dedicated terminal hooked to an electric typewriter) to a (at the time) modern computer with a good word processor and a laser printer. That person cursed at me for at least a month afterwards, proclaiming how this was not an improvement at all and made her life much, much worse. She was used to all of the nuances of the old system, over-emphasized the good things (while ignoring the bad things) of the old system, and only recognized minor things that were worse in the new system (never acknowledging the improvements). 6 months later, being stuck with the new system and no way to go back to the old system, she apologized to me and finally admitted that the new system was, in fact, much better than her old system.

And this is the same issue with many WoW players. If you were to give up WoW and could never go back (or had to start all over from scratch), you would find that the competing games are, in fact, quite good. But many don't give those competing games a good chance to prove themselves, and you can always come back to WoW and pick up from where you left off (immersing yourself in the familiar). After all, wouldn't most people love to go back home and live with their parents taking care of everything for them...even if it wasn't identical to their childhood, it would still be very comforting.

[Otimus]

There are alternatives. It's just most no one wants to start a brand new mmo period regardless of quality. Hell most people who haven't even played an mmo ever don't even seem too into trying them anymore. Genre has too much baggage and you can play different, easier to get into genres now that ape the appealing parts of MMOs with none of the baggage. (baggage = manual grouping to do anything fun, being at the mercy of strangers, hotkey and cool down auto-combat, and a sub fee. The good aspects being level progression, unlocking things, general group play)

[Weeps]

No, I don't think BfA would be as garbage if WoW had competition. Competition breeds excellence, and we can practically see how cocky and apathetic the developers of WoW have gotten in the class design and the Q&As.

I think the biggest problem is that almost every MMORPG released has tried to follow the formula created by WoW, and people might want something different than WoW.

Solid comment here. I agree with you as well.

There's so much potential in the MMO market but WoW is such a bulwark

[dayne87]

I do think that the rise (and subsequent fall) of many, many MMOs while WoW continued strong has sort of given the WoW devs a big head.

I remember Everquest 2 came out right at the same time as WoW. It catered more to the hardcore players coming from EQ than the casuals like WoW did, with more "realistic" graphics and not as cartoony as WoW. It's still around, but the last time I logged in it was F2P with P2P option and there had been so many expansions and systems piled on top of one another that I didn't even know where to start with that game (last time I played seriously was 2006/2007 in that game). I logged back out after like 5 minutes and uninstalled the game. So in that sense I think WoW is just familiar and people are comfortable with that familiarity.

I've played other MMOs over the years. Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online, SWTOR, Neverwinter Nights are the main ones that come to mind. All kept my interest for a time but became too grindy - way more than WoW and, as I posted in another thread, the sunk cost fallacy kicked in and I went back to WoW, where I had spent years of my life.

Anyway, the point is I do think that no big "challenger" to WoW that's sweeping the market with 10 million+ subs is why BfA feels so lackluster.

[Deleted]

Only blizz can make the next big mmo

[Wondercrab]

It certainly doesn't help that there's a lack of competition within the genre. I recall back during the MMO craze WoW pretty regularly incorporated ideas, or variations of ideas, from its competitors. There's not much incentive to stay ahead of the curve when the curve doesn't exist any longer.

[Lochton]

A great example of that would be Lord of the Rings Online
It had so many great ideas,and did a lot of things much better than WoW,but the devs and the publishers just threw it all away.It's to the point where playing it,especially if you remember how some systems worked before they got removed/change is a really sad feeling as you can't help to think about what could have been

Indeed, was one of them. Just like ArcheAge.

[kibil]

Probably you guys are tired of reading threads like this at some point but anyhow the way I see WoW right now unfortunate it's not good at all.

I play WoW since Vanilla as my main game, always, from time to time I've played other things and tried all sort of MMORPGs you can imagine, yes I tried a ton to find a replacement for WoW cause I was already not happy with the game, maybe already in MoP I believe.

But the point is that blizzard changed WoW so so much, making it more day by day: "solo I can do whatever the fuck I want" and that is killing the game, again day by day since right after Wrath probably.

I remember very well, that vanilla and in tbc the need of a group to do A LOT of cool and HARD stuff was a must. So the sense of a REAL MMO and a community where people would and had to actually play together was awesome and most of the time satisfying. I'm not saying was always but for the most part, because douchebags are always there, anywhere unfortunately.

I hated Cataclysm but in some aspects it was good, I hated WoD in almost every aspect, and now BfA I feel like i'm always lost and playing alone 99% of the time, it's just elusive, elsewhere. One aspect the game that I personally always loved was the reputation thing, I always love to be exalted with everybody and was fun to farm reputations everywhere, now in BfA is not anymor, so far I only reached exalted with 7th legion cause I wanted the dark iron dwarf. Again in BfA even that, is boring as shit, it feels like another arm of legion and not a new expansion.

The way I see, unfortunate, yes blizzard is way too cocky for some time already, and if they listen to the community is like 1% of the time. It's just really frustrating to love a game for so long and see it turn into this.

[Jibjub]

Indeed, was one of them. Just like ArcheAge.

Oh man. Archeage could have been HUGE. The devs and publisher went for lots of money NOW versus TONS OF MONEY later. They played the short game. I can hardly blame them, the way way the average MMOer hops from game to game... but man, that game could have been something special.

[Lochton]

Oh man. Archeage could have been HUGE. The devs and publisher went for lots of money NOW versus TONS OF MONEY later. They played the short game. I can hardly blame them, the way way the average MMOer hops from game to game... but man, that game could have been something special.

Oh, they had promise. So much promise.

[Jibjub]

Probably you guys are tired of reading threads like this at some point but anyhow the way I see WoW right now unfortunate it's not good at all.

I play WoW since Vanilla as my main game, always, from time to time I've played other things and tried all sort of MMORPGs you can imagine, yes I tried a ton to find a replacement for WoW cause I was already not happy with the game, maybe already in MoP I believe.

But the point is that blizzard changed WoW so so much, making it more day by day: "solo I can do whatever the fuck I want" and that is killing the game, again day by day since right after Wrath probably.

I remember very well, that vanilla and in tbc the need of a group to do A LOT of cool and HARD stuff was a must. So the sense of a REAL MMO and a community where people would and had to actually play together was awesome and most of the time satisfying. I'm not saying was always but for the most part, because douchebags are always there, anywhere unfortunately.

I hated Cataclysm but in some aspects it was good, I hated WoD in almost every aspect, and now BfA I feel like i'm always lost and playing alone 99% of the time, it's just elusive, elsewhere. One aspect the game that I personally always loved was the reputation thing, I always love to be exalted with everybody and was fun to farm reputations everywhere, now in BfA is not anymor, so far I only reached exalted with 7th legion cause I wanted the dark iron dwarf. Again in BfA even that, is boring as shit, it feels like another arm of legion and not a new expansion.

The way I see, unfortunate, yes blizzard is way too cocky for some time already, and if they listen to the community is like 1% of the time. It's just really frustrating to love a game for so long and see it turn into this.

It's unfortunate for you, but think of it like this. WoW went the route of accessibility. Even with Vanilla, compared to other MMOs, this was their shtick. In the name of accessibility, we've landed where we are now.

You want Shakespeare, but where's the ROI in that? Blizzard has an obligation to investors to make as much as possible. So they make Twilight.

When you open a book expecting Shakespeare and you get Twilight... you can't help but be disappointed (I'm with you). But you forget the millions more who excitedly open a book expecting Twilight and get Shakespeare, then run for the hills. You are in the minority, my brother. You are niche. MMOs used to be niche. WoW made them briefly mass market. But they are slowly going back to niche markets where they belong.

I think we are YEARS from the next big MMO.

[Unholyground]

I've played both FFXIV and guildwars on a casual level, but the lack of addon system is the killer for me when it comes to end game.

I don't even use add-ons and I do just fine end game, you have to be pretty brain dead to need add-ons in WoW.