Is it time for tiered content to return?

[Deleted]

Might want to look at the sub numbers decline after WOTLK by more than half the player base after WOTLK designed raids champ.

https://imgur.com/a/04uhViU

They unsub cause in cata mechanics in raid and dungeons were little bit harder ..in classic TBC and wotlk mechanich were primitive xD like really primitive

[Clash the DK]

I think we could go back to that type of advancement system successfully, but with one big change to compliment the idea:

Leveling would need to be segmented throughout the expansion. Instead of front-loading the leveling process, maybe we would level up to 112 for example. Then each new tier we would level up another 2 levels until the end of the xpac. There would be a final 2 level increase towards the end to "finish" the expansion for all. This would allow one difficult raid setting instead of 4 levels of the same raid. Nobody gets stuck too far behind and there is always new content for everybody.

The end result is that everyone would progress through all content, but at their own speed. Some might be a tier behind until the end. But all content gets done within a reasonable time frame within the full expansion experience.

The only problem with this idea is Mythic Plus. I'm not sure how that would need to be tweaked within the scope of this idea.

[Wildmoon]

I would love raiding wiith no difficulty level but there would be nothing to compensate for players who will never be able to raid. "You raid or pvp." is pretty much the game today. Back in vanilla, the whole game does not really rely on raiding like it is now. Levelling itself was an important experience and not trivial like today.

[netherflame]

No.

A system with multiple difficulty options caters best to players of various skill levels and should remain in the game. The additional difficulty levels are among the best additions to the game ever.

If you just make a raid with 2 first bosses being easy, then 99% of the players won't see past those 2, rendering the content useless.

They could ya know.....improve at the game?

[cparle87]

any direct proof LFR is improving sub numbers? other than lul x people do it, so what? they're subbed purely for fucking LFR? really? so we lost the 12m+ ppl playing in wrath, but heyyy we got these ppl who only sub for LFR no wonder the game is going in the right direction. KAPPA it's not it's trash.

Blizz flat out said that LFR saved raiding. From the start of the game through Cata they were losing money with every raid they made. They weren't worth the time and expense when mere thousands say end bosses like Kil'jaeden. Just look at how the raiding budget was slashed in Cata. All the T11 raids reused assets from existing dungeons and mobs. T12 was cut in half and used assets from Molten Front. And DS was a copy/paste of an existing zone with 0 new models. Then we got LFR and look at how great MoP raiding was.

[xcitng]

'only added'

lawl


Geez guys, our expansion "only added" an additional 25% of our BC subscribers to the current count!?!

There's 84,000 seconds in a day.

Start counting to 2.5 million.

Yeah, only added 2.5.

It already had a solid base of 10 million before it was announced so your thinking that everyone come and went because of WOTLK is bullshit, pretty simple.

[Shalaator]

Yeah, only added 2.5.

It already had a solid base of 10 million before it was announced so your thinking that everyone come and went because of WOTLK is bullshit, pretty simple.

Have you counted to 84,000 yet?

[Socialhealer]

Blizz flat out said that LFR saved raiding. From the start of the game through Cata they were losing money with every raid they made. They weren't worth the time and expense when mere thousands say end bosses like Kil'jaeden. Just look at how the raiding budget was slashed in Cata. All the T11 raids reused assets from existing dungeons and mobs. T12 was cut in half and used assets from Molten Front. And DS was a copy/paste of an existing zone with 0 new models. Then we got LFR and look at how great MoP raiding was.

lol what a crock of shit that is.

wotlk 12m subs, naxx completely reused, then again ulduar one of the best raids of all time, did this lose them money? does it cost over a billion a year to make some raid tiers?

12m subs and raids are making blizzard LOSE MONEY? you realise what you said right? you just can't understand it? you think if blizzard NEVER made raids this game would have hit 12m subs? dream on, dream the fuck on not a chance in hell, no end game = dead game like so many other mmo's who forgot their game needed a point at max level, this games success is massively tied to the raids.

then MoP you say how great the raiding was but everyone complained MoP LFR was too dumbed down and easy, people just wanted free tier, then again didn't MoP bomb in sub numbers.

and as others have said, blizz said what? i don't care what they say doesn't mean shit.

you think do you but you don't? ERRR WRONG.

re-designing classes every xpac and breaking multiple working specs? ERRRR WRONG.

blizzard aren't gods because they said something doesn't make it true.

[Trbn]

Well we have shards of every zone now. Zones are no longer able to go over a certain cap of players before it's crz'd into a new shard. It makes some of the deserted zones feel more lively but it also makes the zones that used to be overpopulated feel less active.

that's why I didn't use number of people in zones as an argument but number of auction lots which are not crossrealmed, sharded e.t.c. gameruin technology tainted

[Daffan]

Just remove half the catchup and welfare so it actually feels like your playing the game rather then coming back each patch and being able to gear for Heroic in 1 week, also feelsbad when you come back and missed half the raids cuz they obsolete.

[Dusty tome]

Currently, raids matter a lot, as it is content seen by millions. Once it isnt, there is no incentive for blizzard to make any raid content anymore.

You would have massive open world content, a lot of dungeons, and close to zero raid content, as it was played by a few only.

I cant believe a raider would want that.

I want what wow was not what it is. You are using really a bizzare business arguement you can't prove to try and explain your illogical argument. It's like oldschool runescape and new runescape.

The way to keep the game afloat wasn't to pander to the minority that liked the new but was to add to the old. Your light is fading but the hearth that bore you still burns bright.

[VooDsXo]

No.

A system with multiple difficulty options caters best to players of various skill levels and should remain in the game. The additional difficulty levels are among the best additions to the game ever.

If you just make a raid with 2 first bosses being easy, then 99% of the players won't see past those 2, rendering the content useless.

No it doesn't, ask any random player if they want to be in a high end guild getting the best possible loot and they will say yes. Ask them if they want to put effort in, and they will say no. The game was at it's best when there was nothing but 1 difficulty and that was defined by the bosses mechanics period.

Your theory is so badly debunked in seconds it hurts, no one at all thought flex raiding was ever good except people who could finally be potatoes in the group and get loot weekly with no effort, the iterations are of no consequence the idea is and was a major failure.

[Deleted]

Tiered content is too difficult for today's casuals

[cparle87]

lol what a crock of shit that is.

wotlk 12m subs, naxx completely reused, then again ulduar one of the best raids of all time, did this lose them money? does it cost over a billion a year to make some raid tiers?

12m subs and raids are making blizzard LOSE MONEY? you realise what you said right? you just can't understand it? you think if blizzard NEVER made raids this game would have hit 12m subs? dream on, dream the fuck on not a chance in hell, no end game = dead game like so many other mmo's who forgot their game needed a point at max level, this games success is massively tied to the raids.

Think of a game like a store with various different products in it. Questing, raids, pvp, dailies, etc. As different products on the shelf to buy. Each one has a cost to make and each one has a price they earn back when someone buys it. Almost everyone quests so that product flies off the shelf. Very, very few people raid. So the raids for the most part sit on the shelf until they expire and get sent back to the warehouse, money lost. Blizz was losing money because, for the cost it took to make them, not enough people were making use of them. So as far as raids were concerned, they were a net loss.

One part of the company can lose more money than it costs and the company as a whole can still report profits. That just means the people in charge will have to find a way to fix it, or downsize it to reduce the loss. And what happened in my last post?

Another way to think of it would be car dealership where all sorts of makes that are all owned by a parent company are sold. If a certain make isn't selling well enough to justify its cost, what happens?

[Deleted]

No.

A system with multiple difficulty options caters best to players of various skill levels and should remain in the game. The additional difficulty levels are among the best additions to the game ever.

If you just make a raid with 2 first bosses being easy, then 99% of the players won't see past those 2, rendering the content useless.

And thats good thing. It sets goal for you. Right now i just finish LFR and quit becouse i really dont give *** about higer difficulty levels of same content. If there would 1 difficulty i would totaly stay subbed more and tried setting those goals and finishing them. Long live classic.

[Socialhealer]

Think of a game like a store with various different products in it. Questing, raids, pvp, dailies, etc. As different products on the shelf to buy. Each one has a cost to make and each one has a price they earn back when someone buys it. Almost everyone quests so that product flies off the shelf. Very, very few people raid. So the raids for the most part sit on the shelf until they expire and get sent back to the warehouse, money lost. Blizz was losing money because, for the cost it took to make them, not enough people were making use of them. So as far as raids were concerned, they were a net loss.

One part of the company can lose more money than it costs and the company as a whole can still report profits. That just means the people in charge will have to find a way to fix it, or downsize it to reduce the loss. And what happened in my last post?

Another way to think of it would be car dealership where all sorts of makes that are all owned by a parent company are sold. If a certain make isn't selling well enough to justify its cost, what happens?

great analogies, but impractical in this sense, questing, dailies, gearing and more all mean nothing if there is no raid at the end of it for a lot of people.

i bet if you just said 9.0 NO MORE RAIDS, but kept everything else, subs would plummet by more than 50%. is 50% of your subscription $$$ worth making raids for? yeah easily.

[Dusty tome]

So you want raids with one texture and some bosses which already exist in the open world? As like Molton Core? Or One boss raids as like Onyxia with the same dragon for all mobs?

Raid design and development is way more expensive nowadays than it was at classic, when MC was put together in a coffee break.



Sure i can prove it. I just ask you to inform yourself, and not always want to spoon feed the same arguments over and over to your alikes, who know nothing about game design.

Read everything Ion Hazzikostas said about LFR and how it justifies a lot of raid content.

Oh, and btw., i, as a casual gamer, am not willing to pay raid content when i will never see it. The days when raiders were parasites are long over. And will not return.

I believe it is extremely arrogant to demand to get carried by a casual gamer base when it is about paying the content bill while you dont even want to show them the content they pay.

You make this argument as if the next raid isn't retextured... I don't know what you think raiding is but it's not what your trying to make it out to be.

Ion... azerite gear is amazing watch me lawyer talk Ion is your rebuttal...your a trash player not a casual. Don't cloak yourself like a wolf in sheepskin, you not being good at the game has nothing to do with how much time you play.

This is the end of the terrible players screaming for freebies. We will no longer pay for you to be a parasite on a mmorpg and toss you back into the single player game you crave.

- - - Updated - - -

great analogies, but impractical in this sense, questing, dailies, gearing and more all mean nothing if there is no raid at the end of it for a lot of people.

i bet if you just said 9.0 NO MORE RAIDS, but kept everything else, subs would plummet by more than 50%. is 50% of your subscription $$$ worth making raids for? yeah easily.

They try to design games by accountant without understanding the soul behind them. They would make a Mario game without enemies since in their mind people get frustrated when they die and quit.

[cparle87]

great analogies, but impractical in this sense, questing, dailies, gearing and more all mean nothing if there is no raid at the end of it for a lot of people.

i bet if you just said 9.0 NO MORE RAIDS, but kept everything else, subs would plummet by more than 50%. is 50% of your subscription $$$ worth making raids for? yeah easily.

I wonder how many more times Blizzard has to say that raiders are one of the smaller subsections of the community. Yeah, it's the most prestigious. But it's the smallest. The idea that more people have raiding as their endgame than dungeons, dailies, and alts is just silly. Thing to remember is the people on these forums are by a vast majority more hardcore than the lion's share of players. They're hard on for the game, enough that they are willing to spend their time coming on here arguing about it. So making a poll, for instance, asking people what their endgame is, will be horribly skewed if you post it... well anywhere.

I'd be very interested to see if Blizz has a way to break down MUAs into percentages. And show us where certain groups spend the majority of their time. Cities and towns RPing and playing AH, out in the world questing, in BGS or arena, in not M+ dungeons, in M+ dungeons, and in raids.