Asmongold, voice of many, shares his thoughts on current state of WoW

[b1ackbird]

He's not relevant and doesn't represent the community.

[Lightforged]

0 becouse i used to always get items what i wanted in the end. So you are again another lier. Stop with this made up stuff just to justifi stupid systems. You are propably one of those 20 minutes day player what benefit most from this system. You just want to be at exact same level as players what put actualy effort into the game and you cant take that there are people better than you.

And you will get the items you want in BfA, or we will move on to the next raid and you will have new carrots to chase. The whole point if Titan Forging is to make it so it is very difficult to have BiS items in every slot. They want you to always have a reason to sign in and play the game. I am not a fan of the system but it is the system they designed. Its no different than Legendaries from Legion, expect the Legendaries truly affected your game play. Getting a +X item level increase on a random piece of gear is far less impactful.

Also, stop being so hostile. It is uncalled for. Jesus.

[abob]

BfA sucks but I don't get the laser focus hate titanforging has right now. Legion actually had more RNG with everything being able to titanforge (minus weapon) + 2 Legendaries

Its not hard to see why any of the wow systems that get hate do so - stop looking at what theyre called or what they do and start looking at what they really are... Layered RNG.

RNG is good, for the most part the fun and enjoyment far outweigh the frustration, jealousy and dislike because the odds historically have never been low enough to cause prolonged negativity, also historically in wow expansions there were clear and measurable systems in place to compensate bad luck, long term currencies like Valor and Honor, which also provided a measurable sense of progression and attainment.

However

Layered RNG is a trick designed purely to demand much more investment from players, but that extra layer which demands so much more will drain the fun out of the first layer completely, just look at legendaries for an example.

The joke at the time was there were two types of player, those that hadnt gotten a legendary that were farming and frustrated and then those that did find a legendary and were still farming and frustrated.
Eventually RNG would drop one, but ofc you wanted a specific piece? well thats another layer of RNG entirely. Completely out of your hands to control, and some way to protect against bad luck? a hidden Bad Luck Protection that players could derive no sense of achievement or progress from.

Titanforging is no different, RNG to get the right drop with an over-lapping much smaller percentage of RNG governing the final ilvl.

Even basic loot is pushed towards multi-layered RNG when personal loot is used rather than a shared drop pool.

Layered RNG creates some exceptional long odds, farming a 1/100 can be a long farm but then having to farm the 1/100 multiple time, thats enough to create some really vicious and/or personal hate.

[Lightforged]

Remember where i said luck in games is expected? Please do read and understand the context. Its expected people get gear, but when you and another person gets the same piece but he titanforges and your sitting here with something may not even be a upgrade for you. Its pretty shitty now isnt it and also breeds resentment. Understand the subject at hand, this game is not good enough for us to ignore these problems right now.

A work around for this is to just name the titanforged item something else. So instead of Warboots of Absolute Eradication and a titan forged version, you have Warboots of Absolute Eradication and Steel Treads of Destruction, the latter being slightly recolored and possessing a higher item level (the equivalent of Titanforging). This work around gives everyone a BiS reward to work towards but it still remains as a fairly rare drop (so you always have something to grind for, which is the goal with Titan Forging in the first place).

[Jastall]

He had some points, but lost me with others. He seemed to be saying he preferred grinds with guaranteed rewards over RNG. In my experience, players complain about both. All rewards in the history of WoW have fallen into one of four categories, as best I can remember, with most of them falling in the first two:

1. RNG loot drops - kill the same target or targets until what you want drops. Might get lucky first try, or may take forever RNG.
2. Grind for guaranteed reward, e.g., rep grinds, AP grinds, badges
3. Special Challenges, e.g. Mage Tower - you only have to beat them once, but may take many tries.
4. Catch up mechanisms - mostly there so no one says "I'm so far behind there's no point in coming back"

Each of these have their place, and the game is best when they are balanced, imho. So if you're having bad luck streak on RNG drops, you can console yourself by grinding something guaranteed. If you are tired of the grind, you can queue for raid or M+ and hope for lucky drop.

But no matter the expansion or patch, it is guaranteed that players will complain. Grinds are boring, RNG is frustrating, Mage Tower is elitist, catch-ups aren't fair to those who had already earned it, etc etc etc.

Does BfA have issues? Yes obviously.
Has the direction of the game fundamentally changed? Not as much as Asmongold makes out, imho.

I think the issue is that there is no grind for guaranteed rewards anymore, unless one counts AP which is not the most satisfying system. IMO Legion legendaries became a ton better once the vendor was up and you could get currency from anything. Azerite should have had a similar system fro the get go, where different activities give you currency that you can use to purchase either a specific piece of gear, or a piece of gear with a specific trait. Later in the expansion, lower the currency cost as the catch-up mechanic.

I do think people trying to use freaking vanilla as an example of where the game wasn't a slot machine of RNG are completely out of their damn minds, as the RNG in vanilla was far worse with the much lower drop rate for, well, anything and no catch-up mechanics at all meaning deterministic loot was non-existent apart from crafted resist gear, and maybe those tier 0.5 dungeon sets that only casual players used. The only outlier is Titanforging which is so rare as to not be a serious argument if you ask me. Nobody but the very top raiders actually fishes for Titanforging, it's just a cool thing when it happens.

But when compared to Wrath, Mists or even the end of Legion itself? Yeah, the RNG does feel a bit excessive. It's not new, and I think it is blown way out of proportion by both Asmongold and the people parroting him sometimes, but it is there and it is annoying.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I think the issue is that there is no grind for guaranteed rewards anymore, unless one counts AP which is not the most satisfying system. IMO Legion legendaries became a ton better once the vendor was up and you could get currency from anything. Azerite should have had a similar system fro the get go, where different activities give you currency that you can use to purchase either a specific piece of gear, or a piece of gear with a specific trait. Later in the expansion, lower the currency cost as the catch-up mechanic.

I do think people trying to use freaking vanilla as an example of where the game wasn't a slot machine of RNG are completely out of their damn minds, as the RNG in vanilla was far worse with the much lower drop rate for, well, anything and no catch-up mechanics at all meaning deterministic loot was non-existent apart from crafted resist gear, and maybe those tier 0.5 dungeon sets that only casual players used. The only outlier is Titanforging which is so rare as to not be a serious argument if you ask me. Nobody but the very top raiders actually fishes for Titanforging, it's just a cool thing when it happens.

But when compared to Wrath, Mists or even the end of Legion itself? Yeah, the RNG does feel a bit excessive. It's not new, and I think it is blown way out of proportion by both Asmongold and the people parroting him sometimes, but it is there and it is annoying.

Vanilla is a good counterpoint, though, to the current complaints of "RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG." With drop rates, then titanforging, then sockets/secondaries/unbreaking. In vanilla you had a drop rate. Boom, that's it. Won't get into which is better, but it is a clear counterpoint.

Also, for your first paragraph, I'd like to introduce you to this revolutionary new concept called Valor, Justice, Tomestones, Wakening Essence, what have you. </s>

[Jastall]

Vanilla is a good counterpoint, though, to the current complaints of "RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG." With drop rates, then titanforging, then sockets/secondaries/unbreaking. In vanilla you had a drop rate. Boom, that's it. Won't get into which is better, but it is a clear counterpoint.

Also, for your first paragraph, I'd like to introduce you to this revolutionary new concept called Valor, Justice, Tomestones, Wakening Essence, what have you. </s>

You just had 2-3 items for 40 people instead, so even over several lockouts of fully clearing a raid you could easily have several people get 0 gear. I'll take one piece in 20 titanforging over that trite bullshit, thank you very much. And who the fuck actually cares about tertiary stats or Indestructible? Like, seriously. Sockets I'll grant you should be guaranteed and not random but they only matter on rings, on main gear pieces they aren't worth 5 ilvl.

As for your second paragraph, I have no idea what you're trying to say when I'm actually proposing a system directly derived from these ones. Thanks for telling me about things I already know about? My exact point is that expansions like Wrath, Mists and the end of Legion mitigated the RNG via currencies and I wanted them to do that in BfA.

[InfiniteCharger]

You just had 2-3 items for 40 people instead, so even over several lockouts of fully clearing a raid you could easily have several people get 0 gear. I'll take one piece in 20 titanforging over that trite bullshit, thank you very much. And who the fuck actually cares about tertiary stats or Indestructible? Like, seriously. Sockets I'll grant you should be guaranteed and not random but they only matter on rings, on main gear pieces they aren't worth 5 ilvl.

As for your second paragraph, I have no idea what you're trying to say when I'm actually proposing a system directly derived from these ones. Thanks for telling me about things I already know about? My exact point is that expansions like Wrath, Mists and the end of Legion mitigated the RNG via currencies and I wanted them to do that in BfA.

The idea here (at least for me) is that the mythic+ dungeons should drop loot off bosses(like other dungeons and raids), not from a single chest per dungeon. Unfortunately the problem with this model is Blizzard doesn't want folks farming the content. But you cant have your cake and eat it too. People are still farming mythic+ even if there is a virtual lockout due to only getting a single chest per level at the dungeon and one chest per week. It really isn't much different than the old system, except in the old system you could target the gear you wanted because the gear dropped off the bosses, not a chest. You would probably get more participation in mythic+ if loot drops happened off the actual bosses once per keystone/dungeon than this single casino roll chest per keystone. The grind doesn't become easier. It just gives people more incentive to grind. The current system only gives an illusion of progress from random minor incrmental upgrades over time plus a chance for a bigger incremental bump here and there. But overall, you aren't gearing any faster than the alternate method of loot dropping off bosses once per keystone. The satisfaction comes from actually working towards a goal versus some random lottery.

[Bae]

Hes not the voice of many...

I cant even get past the fact his head looks like its been pressed between two metal slabs for a long period of time. The very sight of him puts me off looking at him. 70 years ago he'd have been in a freak show.

[FurryRedVixen]

A work around for this is to just name the titanforged item something else. So instead of Warboots of Absolute Eradication and a titan forged version, you have Warboots of Absolute Eradication and Steel Treads of Destruction, the latter being slightly recolored and possessing a higher item level (the equivalent of Titanforging). This work around gives everyone a BiS reward to work towards but it still remains as a fairly rare drop (so you always have something to grind for, which is the goal with Titan Forging in the first place).

Wha What? WHAT? you want the same boss to drop different item level gear from the same difficulty? What in the.. Go exit is that way. You lost your intellectual debating card.

[Th3Scourge]

100% agree with him. More people need to get behind this to push the game in the right direction. Please for the love of god anyone who is going to Blizzcon don't ask easy questions. I'm getting my popcorn ready for Q&A

[chrisnumbers]

There is one thing I agree with.
I agree that he's not the voice of many. He's not even the voice of any besides himself.

[Malikath]

Wha What? WHAT? you want the same boss to drop different item level gear from the same difficulty? What in the.. Go exit is that way. You lost your intellectual debating card.

why? that's EXACTLY what the retard-forging system does.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I think the issue is that there is no grind for guaranteed rewards anymore, unless one counts AP which is not the most satisfying system. IMO Legion legendaries became a ton better once the vendor was up and you could get currency from anything. Azerite should have had a similar system fro the get go, where different activities give you currency that you can use to purchase either a specific piece of gear, or a piece of gear with a specific trait. Later in the expansion, lower the currency cost as the catch-up mechanic.

I do think people trying to use freaking vanilla as an example of where the game wasn't a slot machine of RNG are completely out of their damn minds, as the RNG in vanilla was far worse with the much lower drop rate for, well, anything and no catch-up mechanics at all meaning deterministic loot was non-existent apart from crafted resist gear, and maybe those tier 0.5 dungeon sets that only casual players used. The only outlier is Titanforging which is so rare as to not be a serious argument if you ask me. Nobody but the very top raiders actually fishes for Titanforging, it's just a cool thing when it happens.

But when compared to Wrath, Mists or even the end of Legion itself? Yeah, the RNG does feel a bit excessive. It's not new, and I think it is blown way out of proportion by both Asmongold and the people parroting him sometimes, but it is there and it is annoying.

He completely lost me when he talked about "Now we have to fish for max TF plus bis tertiary stat". I mean, who does that? Even among mythic raiders? WF was not won because someone had leech or speed on their max TF wrists. Like you say, it's nice when it happens, but attaching your happiness to the planets lining up like that is just goofy. To me, the point of TF is that there's always hope of an upgrade, even in content you outgear. If you're helping a friend or get roped into tanking the guild's alt run on your main, it's nice to feel like it's possible to get an upgrade, however unlikely. Just my .02

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Hes not the voice of many...

I cant even get past the fact his head looks like its been pressed between two metal slabs for a long period of time. The very sight of him puts me off looking at him. 70 years ago he'd have been in a freak show.

Making fun of someone because of looks says more about you than it does about them.

[Eggroll]

100% agree with him. More people need to get behind this to push the game in the right direction. Please for the love of god anyone who is going to Blizzcon don't ask easy questions. I'm getting my popcorn ready for Q&A

oO They will just censor the questions or have prepared "nice" questions for them to ask. They seem to be total control freaks.

[Th3Scourge]

oO They will just censor the questions or have prepared "nice" questions for them to ask. They seem to be total control freaks.

I'd imagine they've already 'screened' the questions to frame the conversation the way they want. This is what Blizzard has become.

[Eggroll]

I'd imagine they've already 'screened' the questions to frame the conversation the way they want. This is what Blizzard has become.

Yeah, pretty unentertaining. It's no longer about the players, they are just abused as puppets to make them look good.

I just wish they would put as much effort in preparing their panels as they do censoring the community.

[Baroclinic]

Seems like he spent forever whining about titanforge… and I'm wondering why having the BiS as a Titanforge is that important to you? Hell, I'd be happy with a dang weapon about 350. Then I got tired of listening to him whine and went back to playing.

[Eldar45]

I really think Asmongold is only popular because he hates the game that he plays. I don't think I've seen a video of him (And granted I haven't seen many) where he wasn't complaining about basically everything.

[Shakou]

Seems like he spent forever whining about titanforge… and I'm wondering why having the BiS as a Titanforge is that important to you? Hell, I'd be happy with a dang weapon about 350. Then I got tired of listening to him whine and went back to playing.

Did you try getting conquest capped just once? Or are you too much of a casual shitter too lazy to google basic information about the game to do that?

Believe me we care much more about Asmongold's opinion than yours. Because Asmongold is a really good wow player, who unlike you and the vast majority of people who play this game has actually experienced pretty much ALL the content and we mean all, and you are clearly not that guy. And that actually is all the difference that matters to people who actually play this game to be good at it or that are trying to.

Btw casual, his complaint was that titanforge exists not that he didn't get what he wanted titanforged.

I mean I don't even like Asmongold but people like you should not even share your opinions. If you're struggling to get basic entry epic gear you should especially avoid having such strong negative opinions about other people who play it and don't suck.