Raider.io and Curve are ruining the game, wake up people.

[Abitou]

Raider io and warcraftlogs are only things that makes players want to become better. Since everyone gets showered with free gear all the time, these sites are only thing what makes players feel that they achieved something.

This, I care more about my parses and my io than gear since week 2 of raiding.

[deynao]

I'm using mythic score and imo - it is better

[Deleted]

Then just play a freaking solo game, have you never been in the case where you were the nooby don't knowing what to do ? Have you always been elitist garbage ?

do you want to play with elitist than? We are not playing a solo game. We worked for our score and we deserve to find people who are equal on skill and competence.
why would we bring a guy who did 6 M+ runs who depleted them all and its all low keys? How would that be fair to let those guys who have no clue what to do, be carried by the 1k+io who are working damn hard to get the scores. Ofcoure people are asking high scores for +6 keys, i do agree that this is a bit weird, altho the community has so many garbage/leavers/noobs who don't know what to do that if we don't we cant **/*** Those keys to get em up. Just do your own keys. i managed to lvl my dk to 120 and get a score of 1k within a week of playing my own keys. instead of writing this stuff you could have done your own keys and get your score up.
and if you can't make your own keys you most certainly dont deserve to be in high groups

[neescher]

Oh look only 88 posts and already throwing mud at other posters instead of explaining his view of the problem at hand. You will have an awesome carreer posting here mate. A tad unoriginal because we have too many nasties like you but ok.

P.S. Mardux is saying exactly what Im saying. Many others too. You on the other hand are just here to push some post count with petty insults.

a) What does the number of posts have to do with anything? Still looking for excuses I see. What's next? You don't like my nickname? Or is it maybe the date I created this account?
b) Mardux is NOT saying exactly what you are saying. YOU said you completed a mythic 10 with +3, which got logged by r.io but didn't award points. Since you refuse to post a link, everyone keeps believing you have no idea and are just making stuff up.

But hey, keep the personal attacks going.

[Tiwack]

Raider io and warcraftlogs are only things that makes players want to become better. Since everyone gets showered with free gear all the time, these sites are only thing what makes players feel that they achieved something.

QFT.

Logs can be fun but they'll never give a complete picture of the player fishing for invite(s).
Bring the score, not the player/class, can really go either way..

[Samin]

do you want to play with elitist than? We are not playing a solo game. We worked for our score and we deserve to find people who are equal on skill and competence.
why would we bring a guy who did 6 M+ runs who depleted them all and its all low keys? How would that be fair to let those guys who have no clue what to do, be carried by the 1k+io who are working damn hard to get the scores. Ofcoure people are asking high scores for +6 keys, i do agree that this is a bit weird, altho the community has so many garbage/leavers/noobs who don't know what to do that if we don't we cant **/*** Those keys to get em up. Just do your own keys. i managed to lvl my dk to 120 and get a score of 1k within a week of playing my own keys. instead of writing this stuff you could have done your own keys and get your score up.
and if you can't make your own keys you most certainly dont deserve to be in high groups

Now I get it, you guys just want matchmaking/PVE mmr.

[Blorgo]

Now I get it, you guys just want matchmaking/PVE mmr.

"You guys" just want to get carried without the hassle of progressing through lower keys.

Otherwise, why dont you add four of the dozens of people complaining about r.io on the forums, form a group, and run m+ together? Maybe because you're smart and you know that you likely end up spending two hours in a +8 dungeon?

All I read is players complaining that are most likely bad at the game, heavily overastimate themselves and think every group they apply to have no applicants and should be gratefull and instantly invite them. It's like real life. If you dont work hard and get a good cv with good reviews, you'll struggle when applying for a job against someone who has got all that. you may call this unfair as long as you wish but it won't get you anywhere.


Nobody thinks r.io is perfect, especially since not all runs are being tracked. It's good for reducing the risk of joining a nightmare group or inviting a nightmare player. That's all.

[Thelin]

People really need to stop using Raider.io and Curve, in fact, Blizzard should just shut them down or block APIs to keep them from scanning chars. People are turning into litteral mongoloids using this and it ruines the game. It's just like the mess the game became at WOTLK when the addon Gearscore was introduced, people went ape shit with delirious prerequisites to enter raids or M+. Just look at Uldir, the next week after it's opening, people were already checking Raider.Io, Curve, or whatever aids was invented to scan progression, and if you didn't down G'huun the first week, well you are fucked.

I don't know if Blizzard guys get onto this forum, but really, Raider.io and Curve need to be put down for the sake of the game not being ruined by morons that can't bear to just be decent people and just play without being monkeys and ask for every dungeon to be a literally a carry.

nope. people like you are the ones who ruin the game. Perhaps just create your own group or lead your own raid and your problem is solved? Everyone wants something but doesnt want to put in the work for it. The groups asking for high raid.io are for mythic + clears usually 9+ keystones and beyond for most people stuff like this is a non issue. this raid tier they've made gear super easy to get in terms of budget 370's so of course ilvl is going to be a bad indicator of skill in many cases. Someone elses experience in this game should not impact yours so perhaps focus on yourself and you might have a better experience.

[Enkrypt]

This argument is so ridiculous. If a single one of the "Raider.io is bad" people were actually capable of doing 10+ keys without being carried, they'd understand why it is a useful tool for those players who want to climb the ladder. Those who constantly claim that it's ruining claim that for two reasons:

A) They aren't capable of forming groups with their friends, guildies, etc. to progress, so they expect to be carried by people who are better than them, but Raider.io and other similar sites prevent them from being able to ruin keys of better geared, more skilled players. I'm not risking my key on someone who would rather complain about a website instead of progressing their character, especially a high level one.

B) They aren't aware of how serious some players take their keys. This is a VERY competitive aspect of the game to some people, and they have zero interest in carrying dead-weight or a "casual" player who doesn't know where his interrupt key is.

Of course there are exceptions to these, but that can't be used as the standard. If your IO score sucks, or you just aren't willing to download the addon, then I hate to tell you, but you will probably get passed over for someone who put the effort in.

Raider.io, addons, etc, etc aren't ruining the game. There have always been metrics to gauge a player's skill level, and this is the latest one. Back in Vanilla, you simply inspected a player. If they had T2 or T3 gear it was a reasonable assumption that that player is skilled enough to complete the content and be awarded the gear amongst 40 other players.

This is like saying, "If you want to hire a contractor, and you check their reviews to see if they do a good job and are insured, you're ruining the industry for them. Give them a chance to fuck your shit up."

[Bethrezen]

lol this thread

[Enkrypt]

R.io doesn't care if you complete keys (on time or not) unless those keys are within the top 500 for week.

Some servers are either "run high keys the day of/after reset or go fucks yourself" when it comes to io score.

- - - Updated - - -



I didn't say it was an auto invite. I didn't even imply that.

What i did imply is that maybe the people who depend on flawed systems to build their group for them are also flawed.

You're implying that if I use Raider.IO I'm a flawed human being? The fuck kind of hyperbole is that?

So because I don't want some super-casual, shit player to ruin my key by checking his experience in Mythic+, I'm flawed. Wow. The mental gymnastics never fail to impress.

[Dizzeeyooo]

As I have explained numerous times my argument is: IF I AM DOING A 10 WITH +3 AND THE SYSTEM ONLY LOGS AN 11 THEN THE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING AS INTENDED BY THE USERS BECAUSE YES IM NOT TOP 500 BUT I AM CERTAINLY NOT A BAD PLAYER AND SO NOT LOGGING ME FUCKS MY STATISTICS

No man read again. I said: Blizzard is trying to soft break the addon. This is blizzard doing its thing

Again, where did I say that what blizzard does is good or bad

still arguing with yourself I see

[ydraw]

32 pages and I have yet to see a solid reason explaining how its ruining the game.

Well, here's one reason, and it has to do with how raider.io calculates total score.

Because you need a score in all 10 dungeons for your raider.io score, and because you need to keep maintaining that score to stay with the pack throughout the expansion, raider.io incentivises joining groups for dungeons that you have no other interest in (i.e. you don't need any loot from that dungeon, you are running only to increase your score).

And since people are joining these dungeons only to boost their score, if the run looks like not beating their previous best, then they will leave because they have no other reason to remain in the dungeon.

Previous to raider.io, people primary ran dungeons that they wanted loot from, or that they just enjoyed. I know in legion I ran upper Kara dozens of times for the Aran Trinket and the ring, and I ran Arcway for the 2 set and because the gear their had the best secondary stats for my class. Then raider.io came out and all of a sudden my score was rubbish because I'd never run +15 HoV or EoA but had done Upper Kara and Arcway dozens of times each.

This issue would be easily solved by calculating total score differently. Instead of just taking the total of all 10 dungeons, take the total of the player's best 5. This punishes people less for having a couple of dungeons they haven't bothered with, and means that players can concentrate more on dungeons that drop loot for their class while still maintaining a respectable score.

This is an issue that is totally created by raider.io and the way that they calculate scores. And it affects people who "make their own group" too, because they have to deal with players quitting their runs if they aren't beating their score, when previously those players would have had no reason to join their key.

[Mazinger-Z]

Half this stuff would go away if they did away with the timer.

[Vapo]

Half this stuff would go away if they did away with the timer.

the timer is whole point of the M+ system, otherwise you could just go in with fresh 120 and CC everything to death.

[Mazinger-Z]

the timer is whole point of the M+ system, otherwise you could just go in with fresh 120 and CC everything to death.

Only in the most broken of cases, like that odd video of a class soloing a raid boss because the mechanics allow for sustained engagement.

With scaling, you would still need a certain level of gear to be mathematically sustainable. DPS and Tank mitigation need to be at a point where you can end an encounter (boss or trash) before healer runs out of mana.

All the timer does is add an additional constraint which focuses on efficiency, which further enforces the "bring the class, not the player" mentality that has been pervasive.

If the content can be completed and people have the will to do so, the timer affecting reward and advancement is an unnecessary penalty and constraint.

Back in days of yore, even if you would have to rez someone every pull, the content was worth it because you wouldn't be doing it if you weren't aiming for an upgrade in the instance, so you grit your teeth and chewed through it. The only people who had the luxury to bow out early were tanks and healers, but being instance-locked to a heroic dungeon usually kept that from happening.

[ydraw]

So communicate with your fellow player.

"Hi guys, I just need a score in here. Are we going to be able to do that, or is this simply a completion run?".

Something that was not necessary before raider.io. Also, people lie.

[Spotnick]

It might be ruining your game, but not mine.

Only people who PUG have issues with this.. and only people who PUG keep complaining about this since the release of WOW.

Yet people still pug instead of building their own groups with friends and try to make permanent friends in the game instead of trying to group with random people.

See the issue here? You're playing with random people.. that's your problem.

[ydraw]

It might be ruining your game, but not mine.

Only people who PUG have issues with this.. and only people who PUG keep complaining about this since the release of WOW.

The addon is designed for pugging so duh.

Of course your score is meaningless if you only run with your guild. Lucky you.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, so if we get in and the run is terrible and I was lied to, I have no obligation to stay for the rest of the run. And with communication they knew someones intention from the start. What is the problem?

I mean people join your completion key then still quit when you don't make the timer. Because like anyone else, they are being declined from a lot of groups. Not everyone is playing the right class or has a good enough score to pick and choose their groups. They are not going to risk being declined from another by making their intentions clear from the start. They have nothing to lose by doing so, only the keyholder has anything at stake.

There was no reason to run M+ for score before raider.io was around. You ran the M+ because you wanted loot AP, or the end of week chest. Or you ran purely for the challenge of it.

Now due to raider.io you have a situation where people are forced to pug every dungeon for score so that they can get into 10s for their weekly chest. This is not anyone's fault but raider.io. They could very easily change the way the score is calculated to disincentivise this kind of behaviour.

[Spotnick]

The addon is designed for pugging so duh.

Of course your score is meaningless if you only run with your guild. Lucky you.

The score is a measurement of your achievement, has nothing to do with pugging.. just like the PVE score on wowprogress has no relation to pugs.

In my mythic+ group we try to improve our score for fun, it's a way to challenge yourself.

It can be used to pug people sure, but saying it was designed for that is a bit limitative.