If you're against Vanilla, do you

[Pronto787]

The amount of "Active accounts" has no bearing on how many players actually play a game on a regular basis.

I think its the fact that you think a blizzard title will only have 10k people playing is the amusing part. I do mythic raiding on the server proudmoore and you can slowly see the population dwindling. Its become increasingly hard to recruit for mythic raiding and most of the guild/friends have quit. There was even a "leak" of sub numbers that stated current BFA subs were only 1.7mil with BFA only selling 3.2mil copies. It would also line up with blizzard saying they sold 3.4 mil copies. Its a leak from the blizzard API but still should be considered a rumor. That being said you can still see it on servers and on the forums.

[Fascinate]

The minimum amount of people classic will get at launch is 1million, with a chance to reach as high as 5.

Private server crowd is not who blizzard is targeting with classic, its the millions upon millions who have played before and long since quit. Current WoW players who havent tried the game are the bonus, these are people who are most influenced by content creators.

[Animalhouse]

Oh, so you're under the impression that raider.io, or gearscore, or some other ass addon isn't going to be ported into Vanilla?

That's awfully optimistic. Believe me, if WoW players can do anything well it's finding ways to discriminate against other players.

No I am not saying there will be no raider.io. I completely agree with your statement for the most part.
Gearscore will most likely never be a thing do to wonky gear itemization in classic. It is part of the charm. Though I do not doubt there is some clever code kitty out there who can rate a person by various BiS from pre-raid and then raid gear to label a person. This will be a minor thing though.

My comment was more in regards of the community as a whole. In classic, you cannot escape your reputation and the lack of convenience strongly encourages players to stick dungeon runs out, work through problems and help and train others instead of kick and find someone else. This type of mentality will be strangled out. I put it that way because we all know people have been spoiled by QoL and the worst of the community has surfaced due to CRZ and LFD. It will take some time before jerks realize there is a price to pay for being a dbag.

I find it VERY interesting and somewhat funny that so many focus on endgame in regards to classic. It is truly a small part of the game as a whole unlike all the expansions that came after it. You bet there will be scrutiny and I fully expect to heal in raids as resto druid when that time comes even though I will be mainly feral. BUT that time won't come for a loooong time, and I am ok with that

[Khallid]

ever go back and play old video games you grew up playing?

Preposterous, I have only replayed Baldur's Gate 15 times, or maybe 18, or 20... but that doesn't count because of reasons :P

[Fascinate]

I kid you not, almost no one i knew raided back in vanilla, and if they did it was mostly molten core. Raiding was a bonus/side activity, only for a tiny amount of people was it the focus of the game.

Yet when you see people criticising classic most times its about end game balance, pretty lol worthy.

[Animalhouse]

I kid you not, almost no one i knew raided back in vanilla, and if they did it was mostly molten core. Raiding was a bonus/side activity, only for a tiny amount of people was it the focus of the game.

Yet when you see people criticising classic most times its about end game balance, pretty lol worthy.

^^THIS^^
It shows me that most the haters have no fing clue what they are talking about.
I like all the people who are going to play classic with the attitude of only warriors being viable to tank yet less than 5% of their time will be actually tanking a raid at best LOL! I saw a great poll on reddit with data from 10k people who participated. I think 24% said they would be playing warrior and of that 14% were going to be tank. But know this, warrior was the hands down shittiest class to level in classic. I didn't have the patience for it myself and did not get mine past 40 till WotLK. Kudos to any badasses out there who get to 60 as warrior because that is BRUTAL!
I am just looking forward to 1-60 and gearing. Will be spending so damn much time getting different gear sets for various druid roles that I don't even have raiding in mind, just dungeons where I will be hybrid spec and tanking mainly as well as healing occasionally...will most likely dps to. I do hope to get the full Stormrage set eventually but that is a lofty goal that is so far out I have put it in the back of my mind.

[Dakhath]

I was happy for the people who wanted Classic when it was announced. Since then however, I hope it's the shitshow that the playerbase deserves, the Classic community is by far the worst one associated with WoW.

[Didly]

I kid you not, almost no one i knew raided back in vanilla, and if they did it was mostly molten core. Raiding was a bonus/side activity, only for a tiny amount of people was it the focus of the game.

Yet when you see people criticising classic most times its about end game balance, pretty lol worthy.

You are applying Classic logic to today's world, whereas my point of view comes from applying today's logic to a remaster of Classic.

Yes, back then it took people a long time to level. Well it's 2018 now my dude. Now we have Azeroth Auto Pilot and the objective is to blow through as much content as possible. We're gonna have Classic Auto Pilot and people are going to level to max in a matter of a week or so.

The playerbase is completely different than it was back then. If you played back then this should be an obvious point. People will approach Classic with a WoW in 2018 mentality- blow through the leveling experience and work on end-game content.

[IIamaKing]

Well it wouldn't be a frankenstein classic WoW at all, since it would just be 1.12.
Also live WoW is objectively shit though, regardless of how pretty the trees in Zuldazar are.

It will be because 1.12 code is gone, they are reforming retail wow into a Vanilla experience. They are not dusting off old code. Thats what he means, they are cobbeling Classic together from retail WoW.

[Fascinate]

You are applying Classic logic to today's world, whereas my point of view comes from applying today's logic to a remaster of Classic.

Yes, back then it took people a long time to level. Well it's 2018 now my dude. Now we have Azeroth Auto Pilot and the objective is to blow through as much content as possible. We're gonna have Classic Auto Pilot and people are going to level to max in a matter of a week or so.

The playerbase is completely different than it was back then. Again, if you actually played then this would be an obvious point. People will approach Classic with a WoW in 2018 mentality- blow through the leveling experience and work on end-game content.

Well those people wont last my dude, and if they quit the game would only be better for it. My experience in WoW over the past 13 years has run the gamut, ive been a complete and total noob clicker and ive raided in top 20 US guilds, the game has objectively gotten slowly worse over the years and it needs a reset....luckily blizzard agrees

[Didly]

Well those people wont last my dude, and if they quit the game would only be better for it. My experience in WoW over the past 13 years has run the gamut, ive been a complete and total noob clicker and ive raided in top 20 US guilds, the game has objectively gotten slowly worse over the years and it needs a reset....luckily blizzard agrees

I do agree with that. Let me ask you this... Do you believe Classic is a viable long-term product (let's say 5 years)? I'm not really sold on the idea that people would be willing to invest much time into a MMO that will never be updated, never change, with no new content ever to be added.

.... now if they start rolling out expansions again? OK now we've got something.... but then the folks who would want Classic only would be displaced.

[Fascinate]

I do agree with that. Let me ask you this... Do you believe Classic is a viable long-term product (let's say 5 years)? I'm not really sold on the idea that people would be willing to invest much time into something that will never be updated, never change, with no new content ever to be added.

.... now if they start rolling out expansions again? OK now we've got something.... but where would that leave the people who want to ONLY play Classic? It's a lose/lose situation.

I can only speak for myself, im 100% willing to completely drop my 1200 days /played retail account for classic. This is obviously going to vary from person to person on how much they value achievements and what not, but i put gameplay over that stuff and classic wins that battle every time. I am almost sure they will be doing tbc and 50/50 on if they will do wrath, if so that is an easy 6 years of content for people to restart the game with. In that time that would give blizzard the opportunity to create the next gen mmo everyone really wants.

[Animalhouse]

It will be because 1.12 code is gone, they are reforming retail wow into a Vanilla experience. They are not dusting off old code. Thats what he means, they are cobbeling Classic together from retail WoW.

/facepalm

I think A LOT of people are misunderstanding what is going on with classic "development".
Devs are merely doing what is called "database normalization". They are importing all old table data into new tables with a more efficient structure.
Tables are like excel files but they are relational and work with one another by joins. The new database is easier on processing and doing this reduces latency and load times. EVERYTHING from the old server will be there but arranged better. The core of the server will technically change but not in any way that will be noticeable by the end user aside from performance. I keep seeing so many people say "see, it will not truly be classic or vanilla"... people clearly know NOTHING about databases. The other difference is battle.net integration. This is primarily for security and authentication.

[McNeil]

Something being new doesn't always mean that its instantly better. They went a long way with the technology which made Blizzard able to do things that they could never have done in classic, back then the game was hitting its limits so often (you can also hear from vanilla devs how they wanted to do a lot more for the game, but couldn't pull it off with the tech they had). Something like garrisons wouldn't work (and they wanted player housing) because phasing wasn't a thing yet and it would cause a lot of issues for the world. But the way they are taking the direction with the game is where people start feeling more and more distant with the game they once loved. The loot system for example is nothing like it used to be, there's a lot more RNG behind it and you rely to much on luck to get BiS warforged/titanforged rolls, which is completely out of control for the players. In old WoW you can at least expect your item to drop eventually and be done with it.

People who want to play Classic simply want a more traditional old school MMORPG. Its a lot slower, the world is a lot more dangerous, leveling is a huge aspect of the game, things like making gold and farming mats were also a much bigger aspect, dungeons take longer. Some people prefer it this way, and its not up to anyone to tell them that they only like it because its due to something like nostalgia. It became a buzzword to those with a Classic hateboner who don't want to make any real argument. Its a whole different game, they have taken all sort of directions that is not appealing to everyone and they might rpefer the old way, so they rather want to play Classic even if current WoW has much better technology. Its no different than playing something like Super Mario Bros 3 over whatever the newest Mario game is now, or preferring The Simpsons in 1989 over 2018 because they were just better despite being older.

[Thelyron]

No
No
Yes
No

[kronides]

ever go back and play old video games you grew up playing?
ever go back and watch old movies or TV shows?
ever listen to old music you grew up listening to?
ever go drive through the neighborhood you grew up in?

1) Tried to, but they're generally not fun anymore, at least not like they were then.

2) Sometimes

3) All the time

4) Never.

I will play Classic some, but I doubt very much I will do end game again.

[Ferg]

So, a fallacy I noticed in your post regards the "go back and play old games" thing.

Yeah, I do, but those games haven't been patched and updated for 15 years and added a bunch of badass shit that I now can't live without.

That would be like if Mario 64 had been supported up until the Wii-U and was updated graphically with major quality of life improvements...sure, you could go back to playing the original, but...why? Why would you want to undo all the years of changes meant to make the game more enjoyable?

[Xecks]

So, a fallacy I noticed in your post regards the "go back and play old games" thing.

Yeah, I do, but those games haven't been patched and updated for 15 years and added a bunch of badass shit that I now can't live without.

That would be like if Mario 64 had been supported up until the Wii-U and was updated graphically with major quality of life improvements...sure, you could go back to playing the original, but...why? Why would you want to undo all the years of changes meant to make the game more enjoyable?

maybe cause for some those changes diddnt make the game more fun. maybe they made the game horrible in those peoples eyes.

[Ferg]

maybe cause for some those changes diddnt make the game more fun. maybe they made the game horrible in those peoples eyes.

like what? auto-dismount? removal of weapon skills? the dungeon finder tool? those are horrible changes? lmao

[Xecks]

like what? auto-dismount? removal of weapon skills? the dungeon finder tool? those are horrible changes? lmao

heh whatever. you know you are just being purposfully obtuse.