Mafia game discussion thread.

[Marack]

Couple days since last game ended... Anyone have one in the works?
@Lora How ya holding up?

[Nefarious Tea]

Couple days since last game ended... Anyone have one in the works?
@Lora How ya holding up?

I’ve been trying to design up something seasonally appropriate but it’s hard to do w/o being wildly op in favor of scum

[Dendrek]

It's a good idea, if this is your first time designing a game, to ask someone with experience to help with balance.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, as a general rule regarding game design: Don't let people know anything about its internal setup or balance. Only the people directly involved in designing it should have any clue about that. Otherwise, the information you leak will affect how it is played. Moderators should try to have as little impact on the outcome of a game as possible.

Some ways they achieve this:
1) Carefully decide what information you will release about the game's setup (mostly what will be revealed in the signup thread and in the first post of the game thread) and then don't discuss anything else about the game outside of those places.
2) If, during actual play of the game, a player asks a question, try to provide as minimal an answer as possible (often, not answering at all is appropriate).
3) Minimize how often and in what ways you communicate with players in your game -- even outside of answering questions. Things like jokes, hints (fake or otherwise), sarcastic responses to something a player said, etc, will all be analyzed by the players and can affect the game.

I'm sure you get the idea. Just be careful about communication in general.

[Largehorn]

I'd get a game up an going but it'd have to be finished in 13 days........

Since I won't be able to run something while I'm at Blizzcon. If someone wants to get one up for the mean time, though I can definitely play while I'm there (just won't be super active).

I'll be sure to have a game for after that though so we can get back in the swing of basically always having a game up.

[Nefarious Tea]

@Dendrek the issue there is that the pool of players has grown so small here compared to the days of yore (from what I've gathered) that asking anyone for balance help essentially is asking ~10% of the players not to play.

@Largehorn if you can play at Blizzcon I'll try to get something set up. No guarantees though. By tomorrow morning I'll either have a signup post or a thread of me throwing myself on my sword :P

[Danner]

My rules-of-thumb for mafia modding:

• Game Design: Town should have room for 3 wrong lynches, regardless of gamesize.
  
  If the game is estimated to last for more than 7-8 gamedays, add more mislynches to that. But the typical game should last around 7-8 gamedays.
  If the number of players is very small making the game last that long will be hard - but it is better to cut down on the number of scum, than the number of town mislynches.
  
  To balance this is fairly easy. Just assume the town will mislynch every day, and the mafia will kill town every night. How long until the game ends in a mafia victory? If it's less than 3 gamedays, do reconsider the balance.
  
  It's much harder once you have multiple scum teams. There is no good way to balance that properly; any lopsided night will ruin the balance entirely. Not much you can do about that as a mod. Just design it so that you wouldn't be miffed about being drafted into any role you make.
  
  In this part, we usually go by "the rule of 1/3" - meaning a third of the players should be scum. But that rule only works as long as a third of the players are also TPRs. More or less of either shifts balances around.
  
• Game Design: Be very careful about roles that can clear individuals.
  
  A cop is not the only one that can clear a player. Claiming cop also clears another player: the cop.
  The same goes for doctor claim, masons claim, special roles that just has-to-be-town claims etc. It gets really bad once a town tracker finds another TPR. That's inevitably two TPRs cleared, despite the outing blunder. As a mod, your job is to make sure the setup doesn't allow such level of clearing.
  
  Consider switching things up. A mafia doctor (done last game), or a mafia cop, or no cop at all - just a mafia fakeclaim as one. Build a meta where clears aren't as easy.
  
  The My Little Pony game was probably the worst offender we had; where perfect mafia play the first two days (lynching cop, identifying then killing SK) meant the mafia was entirely screwed by a massclaim on D3. As a mod, try to design your game so that a massclaim is a scum benefit, not a town benefit.
  
• Game Design:Be very careful about screwball roles.
  I love unusual roles. I've fscked up several games I designed because of just one additional weird role added to the mix breaking everything.
  The lost Village mafia game went from town lopsided to utterly town-broken by the addition of a town roleblocker. The Christmas game I hosted was singlehandedly won by the existence of a mafia doublevoter. The stargate game had a lot of its town power tied up in a single inventor role given to a player that decided to not play, screwing town hard (it was still a close race!).
  
  There is a mafia version murphy's law when it comes to game design. If you revolve your game around one particular role, that player will invariably die on D1. Ask yourself what would make your game the worst possible - it will happen. But you probably weren't imaginative enough.
  
• Modding: Be tight-lipped.
  As a mod, I love talking to my players. But I am deathly afraid of spilling too much information that will tilt the balance of the game.
  "I cannot answer that question" is a perfectly valid answer to most questions. The only questions you really should answer is situations where the information you have given just isn't as clear as you thought it was.
  
  Then spill the beans to the dead thread, if you need to scratch that talking itch :P
  
• Modding: Handle errors the right way
  You will make errors. We're all human. A co-mod helps massively at catching errors, but even that doesn't help 100%.
  Most errors you make won't matter. Just fix them quietly as you go.
  - If this changes information sent to a player, let them know you changed it due to a mod error - but not what the error was (be tight-lipped!).
  - If this changes information in the game thread, make an announcement saying that you changed X to Y due to a mod error.
  - If this changes information sent to a player, after said player goes out with this in a full claim, you're kinda screwed. You either mod-confirm that player by denouncing the information that player revealed in the game thread, or you leave that player to be lynched for lying due to dutifully reporting the info you revealed. Neither option is good.
  
  To avoid the latter, make sure to triple check everything before you send anything out. There is no rush. If you need two more hours to verify things, take two more hours.
  

[Deleted]

There is a mafia version murphy's law when it comes to game design. If you revolve your game around one particular role, that player will invariably die on D1. Ask yourself what would make your game the worst possible - it will happen. But you probably weren't imaginative enough.

WCS: Worst Case Scenario- This is very important doing a worst case scenario for town/mafia, how quickly can either side win.

Didn't do this for my first game so it was meh, but used it on the rest.

[Largehorn]

WCS: Worst Case Scenario- This is very important doing a worst case scenario for town/mafia, how quickly can either side win.

Didn't do this for my first game so it was meh, but used it on the rest.

The one game I didn't really do this ended up pretty bad too.

Sometimes you get lucky though, I didn't do it with the Neighborhood Z game, and I think people ended up enjoying that one (once it was all said and done).

[Dendrek]

It's hard to enjoy anything when your brains have been eaten, sir.

[A-sayo]

My rules-of-thumb for mafia modding:[/list]

You forgot Godshot.

[Danner]

You forgot Godshot.

I did.

*ashamed*

[Nefarious Tea]

You forgot Godshot.

What? /10 chars

[listo95]

What? /10 chars

Batman game. In short I was a SK who could not kill unless the player visited me (roleblocks stopped this). I was also immune to all kills. I also had the ability to choose a safe claim or a tracker bonus, obviously I chose tracker. I was also able to be recruited into a mafia if their godfather attacked me however I would lose my unkillable status if that happened.

[Nefarious Tea]

Ok, so I have a tentative ruleset that I think might be workable (but it's probably wildly unbalanced). I could use feedback if someone's interested!

[Krayzy]

I was going to skip this next game because I was hopefully starting a new job. That may be out the window though since I broke my wrist today.

Let me see what the doctor tells me tomorrow (if I can get in to see him). I may end up needing surgery and will want to play. If not I will give you feedback.

[Nefarious Tea]

@Krayzy Keep me updated!

[Largehorn]

It's hard to enjoy anything when your brains have been eaten, sir.

.... See my signature? XD

[Dendrek]

I can't read. No brains. Remember?

[Graeham]

I'll be signing up for the next game...though my activity will be lessened during the 26th-29th as I'll be away on a trip. I should be able to post from my hotel room. I could sit out, though I'd rather help beef up the numbers.

[Krayzy]

I hate being in pain.
@Nefarious Tea Go ahead and toss me a link to your QT. I'll see if I can come up with some feedback.