We need Ion hazzikostas THE PLAYER back not the Game Director to make WOW better

[MoanaLisa]

I don't know that we need more Ion Hazzikostas in the game. It seems to me we have quite enough already. I do think that the design team could stand to have a couple of people on it that better understand the casual player mindset and what they want. They missed this entirely in Warlords, over-compensated in Legion (but too much is better than not enough) and played it safe in BfA. I think there's a lot about BfA that could be better but for them Legion was a pretty great success (especially after Warlords) so "more Legion" probably seemed like a reasonable thing.

The problem with that is the length of time that each expansion takes before the next one. I liked Legion as much as anyone but after that I was ready for something that moved on a little more. Admittedly, it's pretty hard though to think up brand new concepts for a game that's been around as long as this one. Blizzard is great at taking someone else's ideas and polishing them up nice but it's been a while since a major MMORPG came along to borrow from.

They aren't going to repeat what happened in Warlords though when players who played very casually and not every day still ran out of things to do. That's a primary driver behind where we are now. Contrary to many here I don't think Activision is the problem. I think the reaction to Warlords and people running out of things to do was as traumatic for the design team as Cataclysm was.

[Taeldorian]

Chris Metzen, we need you now more than ever! Save us. Save WoW.

That’s a bit hypocritical. A lot of horrible story came from a time when he was creative director and drove the story along with Alex. WoD arguably had the worst story from any expansion and was obviously scrapped/changed halfway through. Grom was trying to kill us the entire time and his army even managed to kill some of our own (maraad and others) yet when we free him from his bonds were friends all of a sudden? Yrel being a character that went from being a bit weak to being one of the strongest characters in BfA in very short time. I could go on. I haven’t even mentioned what he did to thrall.

Metzen was a great guy and very charismatic however bringing him back wouldn’t do much aside from making blizzcon more hyped.

What we need is for them to listen a bit more and engage in discussions about high tension points in the community. So far every QA has been: “we get there’s a problem but we aren’t accepting that it’s a big deal so we won’t get to it”. They very rarely acknowledge the concern aside from letting us know it’s not a big deal to them.

The mythic+ changes are great and they came straight from community feedback. Adding a vendor along with grindable currency gives you a goal to work towards and you know exactly what your going to get at the end rather than something that’s between 360 or 385. Hopefully they do more of this.

[Perkunas]

Has no power to fix them? Quit acting like he is a low level map designer.

He does have bosses, and they have bosses, and they have shareholders.

He can't say, "Fuck you, Activision! You guys have done nothing but push shitty changes onto this game since Wrath of the Lich King and you've gutted it's soul to the point that it's alienated millions of former fans. We're removing Titanforge, the increased RNG bullshit, the worthless Facebook-games(Mission Tables...) time-gated reputation grinds, bringing back tier sets, reverting the shitty GCD change, giving Hunters back ranged Survival(that one is for me...), etc!!!!!"

[Mayia]

What, that isn't even the most effective way for handling the waves, you only stop basically at the miniboss just before the steps with the first group *shrug* been ages but i don't think he's doing it as effectively as he thought he was, loved selling these bears.

[Deleted]

he Problem with Players Like Ion Hazzikostas, or even players like Asmongold is: they are on the wrong end of the food chain to ask for advises to make the game for the majority. Do people really think that this game gains track (as in "regaining player popularity") when you listen to the smallest, the most dedicated and sometimes (more often than not) the most toxic players? Those so called "progamers" are a very good source to ask for feedback for class balance, ability tuning, and even finetuning the hardest dungeons and raids. But the y fail horribly when it comes to things "the average gamer" or the "majority of players" wants, better said needs to stay with the game. Over the years since WotLk we saw the power gap between "progamers" and "Casual gamers" spread wider and wider. For PvE it was mainly because of some loud minority "pro- and semiprogamers" started to wine about people getting the last seasons/last raid equip they "earned by working so hard" for badges. Blizz should have never listened to that. Simply because giving the best to dedicated progamers doesn't work when there is a gap of almost 2 or 3 stages in between this and what the average gamer gets. It is also a not really bright idea to think about mechanics you can push upon players in oder to make them sub longer, instead... you know, think about mechanics the players can enjoy, staying subbed longer in the process of enjoying.

Since WotLk we saw many many many mechanics being introduce that have the purpose of getting people to "learn" how to play more dedicated, to learn how to want "success" in the game. You can't force or trying to force a certain playstyle onto different types of players to fit the way "you think the game should be enjoyed". That doesn't work at all. Instead the devs should see what worked for the masses and improve that, not trying to regulate that even further. Mechanics nowa days are planned from the wrong end and it is only natural that they don't work all to good. Sure, WoW is an old game, but it could at least have double the playerbase that it actually has, easily. And it could easily surpass that number, becoming a very relevant product AND a good game loved by many again. The mechanics are there, just need minor tweakings..... and some not so minor tweakings.

I don't say those people are on the wrong spot (like Ion Hazzikostas). I just think that they need to step back (not from the job) and shift perspectives a lot, looking at mechanics from many totally different perspectives of player types. And there are many more playertypes between those "who always play, pushing the limits" and those "who want everything mailed to them without doing anything". Those two are just the most extreme ends of the spectrum of many many many different types of players. And there have always been those many types since 2004 and even before that.

Totally agree with this.
As a player who hasnt unsubbed in these 14 years since start of WoW I often feel that players who do unsub frequently get more love than players like me, who love the game and play (and pay) it no matter what.

[Kithelle]

He does have bosses, and they have bosses, and they have shareholders.

He can't say, "Fuck you, Activision! You guys have done nothing but push shitty changes onto this game since Wrath of the Lich King and you've gutted it's soul to the point that it's alienated millions of former fans. We're removing Titanforge, the increased RNG bullshit, the worthless Facebook-games(Mission Tables...) time-gated reputation grinds, bringing back tier sets, reverting the shitty GCD change, giving Hunters back ranged Survival(that one is for me...), etc!!!!!"

And I suppose Activision is telling him he should drive WoW into the toilet? Make it generate as little revenue as it possibly can?

[Perkunas]

What, that isn't even the most effective way for handling the waves, you only stop basically at the miniboss just before the steps with the first group *shrug* been ages but i don't think he's doing it as effectively as he thought he was, loved selling these bears.

Made a mint back in BC between bear runs and cornering the clefthoof leather market.

- - - Updated - - -

And I suppose Activision is telling him he should drive WoW into the toilet? Make it generate as little revenue as it possibly can?

They seem to think these changes are what people want.

[Falynn1]

I think this is a decent analogy.

Cruise ships have performance limitations. They aren't doing donuts in the harbor. If you try to turn it too fast, things will break.
The captain isn't going to tell the passengers that the number three piston has a pressure leak. Its not their business and he wouldn't want to cause a disturbance or invite the amateur engineers among the passengers down to the engine room to take a look.

What we don't see as players are the internal communications of the development team. We don't see the weekly status meetings where Ion has to bitch at his team that they still haven't fixed X, Y, or Z. We don't see that 'Bob' had a fix for Chainheal, but he's out of the office because he fell off his mountain bike and won't be in the office for 3 weeks per doctor's orders. Maybe he could fire a weaker developer or two, but how long is it going to take to onboard a new developer to the codebase. Is it better to team them together to reduce mistakes?

The vocal, angry part of the WoW community would be well advised to not try to make him a scapegoat. The man's got some real spine to do as many public outreach events as he does. I remember well how Ghostcrawler was practically burned in effigy during his time in the spotlight. Now, many of his critics are fans. There is no need to target Ion directly.

By all means, be vocal to Blizzard about what you like and don't like about BfA - But targeting a developer just because you know his name and is face isn't fair and isn't going to fix the issues you are having.



Its pretty easy to respond to praise, isn't it? Say 'thank you'. Done
Criticism is orders of magnitude harder. You have to try to understand intent. You have to integrate a different viewpoint into your own. You have to evaluate that viewpoint for its merits. You have to decide if you can take a reasonable action to 'correct' the issue. And you need to come up with an implementation plan. All of these things take way, way, way more time and effort than a simple 'Thanks'. They best you should expect as an immediate reply is a 'Thanks for your feedback.'

thank you.. I'm glad, at least, someone else realizes this

[Thetruth1400]

He's 4/8M with <Elitist Jerks> and raids 3 days a week. I'd argue that still qualifies as a player, but what would I know considering I don't hate the game, right?

I can't be bothered to look, but I swear it was posted the other day that he's pretty much only there as a token symbol and even though he's in a Mythic raiding guild that he hasn't bothered to get his neck up past 22ish.

I'd go as far to say that if that's true, he's definitely not playing the game as they are designing it.

[SinR]

I had forgotten he was in EJ.

Wonder if he still plays Shaman

[derpkitteh]

Couldn't you argue that those two are somewhat connected? I mean, a displeased player is less likely to play the game

not anymore. it's all about MAU's and goading people with poor game systems that goad you into subbing.

i really can't comprehend why they can't just make a good game that people want to play. i guess the investors think that a game made to goad and shit pulls in more money than a game that people play for fun.

but to the op, the dev ultimately doesn't matter. what the investors want him to put in the game is what will happen, whether he finds it fun or not.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I want TBC gameplay back, IDGAF about Ion being a player or game director.

You can just go play tbc though... There are even ways to mod content for tbc.

[Perkunas]

You can just go play tbc though... There are even ways to mod content for tbc.

The only legal way to properly replicate TBC would be to wait for them to push a TBC server like classic.

[Deleted]

Ions job back in WoD:
To satisfy casuals.

Ions job back in Legion:
To satisfy the hardcore players.

Ions job in BFA:
To satisfy both groups.

Conclussion: you can't help both groups. That is not possible.

[Deleted]

WoD was all about raids, and there was close to no open world content. So how did it satisfy casual gamers?

I was not very happy with WoD as a casual gamer.



In legion, world quests got implemented, allowing at least a limited endgame progression for none-organized players. So how is there a big focus on hardcore players?



Thats actually his job in every expac. And not just in BfA.



I think you can. WoW is played best in a group, still, but you are able to progress no matter if you a guilded. WoW should be played best as you want to play it. And give options to play in groups.

Because MoP was about dailies AND Timeless AND Raiding - after the complains, they gave us WoD(which was about nothing). And this correct - there are even blue posts and gamereviews about the fact. They felt like dailies was too much for the playerbase...

Funny enough - same group complained about nothing to do in WoD - they listened and gave us Legion.

CLEARLY they wanted to trim down Legion - to make it more accesseble for everyone - they gave us BFA. Problem with BFA is - it's not too hardcore - it's not too casual.

Don't you see this very clear pattern?

[Deleted]

No, actually BfA still has mythic raids, heroic raids, mythic+ dungeons, arena and rated battlegrounds. And they added Warmode, which is only fun for players who utilized organized groups. Which is the hardcore part. And they added warfronts and island expeditions, which still need an ongoing development but mainly cater to the casual crowd, and adress them well with it.

BfA does cater to both groups.

This my problem with this community(nothing personal):

Why don't you think of Legendary system, that does not exsist. OR - Azerite armor which is a more simple approach to artifact weapons.

When I say - BFA is trimmed version of Legion - why do you think of Mythic+ and other key features? This is ridiculous.

[Deleted]

Wow, remember when builds and raid comp and niches were a thing? Remember when the game had flavour?

'Member when you could bring a Holy Paladin with a couple of points in Protection and tank gear to aggro packs of mobs on a speed run?

[Musta]

Not just Ion, all the devs.

[Cathululock]

I don't think there is a going back for live wow. What we are seeing is the result of chasing phone gamers for half a decade. It's time to peacefully sunset live and move on to classic.

truer words have never been spoken

Modern wow is what happens when you chase trends.

[Deleted]

What does that have to do with being casual or hardcore?



Well, you said catering to both levels of engagement, casual playing and hardcore playing is not possible. I tried to argument against it.

In Legion you had to do massive amount of work to progress.

You don't do the same in BFA. They trimmed it down as I say - simple the fact the casual group didn't want to farm the legendaries.

I will say this again:

If WoD was a fail - I blame the casuals(because WoD is a trimmed down version of MoP).

If BFA is a fail - I blame the casuals(because BFA is a trimmed down version of Legion).