Toxic masculinity: Life as a man isn’t always easy either

[Natta Lmo]

That's a nice opinion and all, but how exactly do you know this? You have zero experience in it. The fact is, life is only as hard as we make it for ourselves individually. Mine is actually quite simple and easy. When it comes to relationships, I have one simple rule: One strike and you're out. I can forgive just about anything, but once the trust is gone, there is no repairing that damage.

lol... i can observe how men are treated compared to me and other women...

[Trassk]

lol... men have a far easier life than women... if i was born a man then my life would have been easier...

You think so do you?

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lol... i can observe how men are treated compared to me and other women...

In other words you'd never try to walk a mile in a man's shows even if you had the option to.

[Eggroll]

Although I see where you are coming from, I agree with my fellow female posters: women have to deal with this shit all the time.

Also: It's how men "want" the world to be, it's a man's world, isn't it pretty

[Trassk]

I was coming out my local supermarket the other day, and I notice a child walking out the front doors ahead of me. I quickly took notice that the child was wandering around on their own without a parent or guardian beside them (the kid was only like 4-5).
I stopped and stood looking around and watching the kid as they seemed to wander outside the supermarket aimlessly, and began to consider if I should go up to the kid and ask where his mummy or daddy were, but after like 40 seconds, a man came over from a bench outside the supermarket and the kid waddled over to him arms out stretched.

It occurred to me, as a large, bearded man, stood outside a store watching a kid, how that might have appeared to people, where as if I were a woman, probably wouldn't have had that feeling.

[Flarelaine]

The only men you see openly calling themselves Feminists, are either doing so in an attempt to not be labeled "sexist", or in an attempt to get laid, and/or eventually sexually assault women...

What if I specify I'm a second wave feminist?

[Deleted]

Although I see where you are coming from, I agree with my fellow female posters: women have to deal with this shit all the time.

Also: It's how men "want" the world to be, it's a man's world, isn't it pretty

The article isn't saying woman don't have to deal with it, it is written by a woman after all. It's a falacy that we can only discuss one gender problems and not the other too

[Zantos]

people would trust i can do something i say i can do instead of questioning, wouldnt be downplaying ur skills and knowledge because ur a woman... more opportunities, more money to make... less indecent suggestions or behavior from male coworkers or customers in ur work... wouldnt have to think as much about how u behave when u are drinking or risk being sexually assaulted... women arent put off if men take initiative in dating but if women take initiative in dating a lot of men are put off... if u are upset about something then people wouldnt try to blame it on ur cycle... i would be stronger naturally without exercise...

People downplay a mans knowledge at times too if the field is one that is seen as more female dominated. There is no more opportunities for men. If anything, there are more for women because companies are forced to hire them to diversify their companies staff, regardless of merits. One example: Gamestop a few years back had a massive hiring spree of nothing but women. Some of them were great. Most of them though, knew nothing about games or the systems and you could tell they were there just for a check.

Men don't make more money, that was a myth started on a bs study that didn't even conduct itself properly. Men may get raises more often, but that has been proven to be due to them being far more aggressive with bargaining for their wages and asking about raises.

I will concede that not all men suffer as many indecent behaviors. However, alcohol has is drawbacks. That is not gender related. At least women are taken seriously when they accuse someone of rape. Men don't. Even when they report it, they are made to feel ashamed and less of a man for being put into that situation. That is assuming they get past people just saying they probably liked it anyway. Oh, and lets not forget the laws in some states that are set up so men Literally cannot be rapped under their legal definition.

Men get put off when women approach them because, again, a lot of people few that as funny and something the man should be ashamed of. Thats a negative for men, not women. Women also get to be upset. Men don't. No one takes them seriously.

So no, life wouldn't magically be easier. Both sides have issues. I agree with the article. Men have a rough time. No one wants to extend aid to them when that same aid would be given to women in the exact same scenario. They have virtually no rights when it comes to being a parent since most courts favor the mother unless she messes up Big time. I could go on a list of what we suffer. I would take having people make sexual advances on me over having to be the one to make those advances to be seen as "a man" any day.

[Eggroll]

The article isn't saying woman don't have to deal with it, it is written by a woman after all. It's a falacy that we can only discuss one gender problems and not the other too

I never said that. I said THIS is the world defined by men and their views, the world we live in.

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... I would take having people make sexual advances on me over having to be the one to make those advances to be seen as "a man" any day.

Seriously, wanna play the victim card as a MAN??!! Rofl.

[Rennadrel]

Why is it such a difficult task for 99% of feminists to acknowledge that men also face their own forms of discrimination, sexism and challenges? Why must it always be a "but we have it worse" or "it's because of patriarchy" BS argument?

Because it's easier to make excuses than it is to take responsibility for one's failures or lack of effort. Men are more successful because we sacrifice more. If women want to be like us, all the more power to them, but expect to have to give up having children in order to do it. That's a sacrifice we don't have to make as men, but we often sacrifice our own well being and mental health in order to be successful. Feminists want to use patriarchy as an excuse meanwhile the whole damn system, education in particular, is setup so that they are more successful. It's their lack of desire to utilize the systems that are there to help them be successful, while us guys have the bust our asses and slog it out.

[Zantos]

Seriously, wanna play the victim card as a MAN??!! Rofl.

Thank you. Point proven.

[Post]

Although I see where you are coming from, I agree with my fellow female posters: women have to deal with this shit all the time.

Also: It's how men "want" the world to be, it's a man's world, isn't it pretty

What type of man do you find attractive?

[Uncle]

Just gonna leave this here because someone just posted it to me and man it's awesome someone made this.

Thank you for providing that link i'm sure no one here had the curiosity to check, so i will quote some things from it.

Government Sponsored Sexism


1) Real sexism is almost no shelters for male victims of domestic violence.

2) Real sexism is men getting harsher punishments for the same crime.

3) Real sexism is countries with compulsorily military service for men.

4) Real sexism, courts that takes children from fathers based on gender.

5) Men cannot even vote or get citizenship without enrolling for the draft.

6) Real sexism is numerous government departments dealing with women's issues but none dealing with men's issues.

7) Male infant circumcision/genital mutilation is legal and performed widely and even completely socially accepted but female genital mutilation is not.

8) A young boy raped by a woman can be forced to pay child support to his rapist if she gets pregnant, that's real sexism.

9) Many countries do not even recognize female on male rape. It can maximally only amount to “sexual assault” that's real sexism.

10) Real sexism is having no special laws like VAWA to protect men, even though men are the majority of victims of violent crime.

11) There are drives to fill quotas for women for the high paid roles but not in the dangerous jobs dominated by men, thats real sexism.

12) In the army, police, fire service or any other position women have to meet much lower physical standards than men.

13) Real sexism is services for men only given a fraction of the funds that services for women are given at a government and a social level.

14) For the same crime, irrespective of the gender of the offender, the perpetrator gets more punishment if the victim is female rather than male.

15) Most divorce laws are skewed against men, men can lose half his properly, money and children to a woman who decides to leave him.

He is expected to pay for this betrayal, especially if he has already provided for and supported her, this is real sexism.



Social sexism against men


16) Real sexism is being mocked when raped because you're a man.

17) Men are expected to not show emotion and remain stoic at all times.

18) Victim blaming is acceptable ONLY when men are the victims and women the perpetrator. This is real sexism.

19) Real sexism is having your gender stereotyped by society as being violent, abusers, etc.

20) Men’s lives are given less value in any emergency situation.

21) Male children are often given harsher punishments by teachers for the same level of mischief as girls.

22) Young boys are given less care and attention by parents than girls and beaten over twice as often as girls by parents.

23) Violence against men by women is much more socially acceptable.

24) Affirmative action for women only in jobs, education, grants, etc.

25) Men enrolled in are often given tougher, more dangerous tasks to perform than women in the same post (in a job) This is real sexism.

27) Males who complain about being objectified are shamed as being “mentally fragile” or their sexuality is questioned. This is real sexism.

28) Men do not have the privilege of showing affection to each other in public as women without people questioning their sexuality.

29) Men are expected to ask women out, pay for dates, decide on the venue – if she rejects him he is often labelled creepy or needy.

30) If a man slaps a woman, he is an abuser and a monster, If a woman slaps a man, “he must have done something to annoy her”

31) When a man breaks up with a woman, he is called a “jerk”. When a woman dumps a man, “he must have failed her somehow”

32) Men are excluded from many positions such as babysitters, etc.

33) Young men having to pay higher car insurance is acceptable but the idea of women having to pay more for health insurance is not.

34) Despite the fact that the real victims of sexual discrimination are men the term sexual discrimination usually excludes men and the vast majority of surveys and news stories about sexual discrimination dont include men.

35) Our culture and media makes the assumption of men as guilty, violent offenders where as women are given special treatment at every turn.

36) In modern movies and TV violence against men is glorified but violence against women is regarded as especially horrific.

37) Many news reports will read the number of people killed and then highlight women and children as more tragic than male death.

EG: "37 people were killed in a bus crash including 17 women"

38) Men are expected to carry heavy things for women, give up their seats for women, shovel snow, mow gardens and do any other job involving manual labour, that women do not wish to perform.

39) Real sexism is a society where men are taught that a man's role is to work, provide, pay and die in order to ensure a woman's happiness.

40) Real sexism is the fact that men working longer hours in harder more dangerous jobs to earn more money to pay for women's choices is being turned into a weapon against men.

I think that list is pretty accurate, so...?

[Mistame]

You know, I generally don't pay attention to this kind of stupidity but this:

Sexual virility
Another issue talked about is men feeling uncomfortable when peers blatantly check out or sexualise women, commenting on their appearance.

"It can get toxic easily, and as a guy we're expected to contribute. It's happened a lot and it's so uncomfortable. Just being around that conversation makes me feel dirty," commented Alan Gretch, 21, from the US state of Nebraska.

Alan says these conversations are common especially when there are no women around: "They can range from 'this person is hot' to more graphic descriptions of girls."

He says it's difficult to challenge men when these conversations begin. "It's either bully, be bullied, or stay silent. It's a no win situation," Alan explains.

Is another level. Checking out women, etc, is not "toxic". It's not "bullying". In fact, it's perfectly natural. If you don't want to, don't. But feeling "dirty" or like you need to speak up makes you sound a bit white knight-ish. And white knights are cunts.

[sarahtasher]

Men may have historically been forced into the War Draft against their will and killed, socially expected to be the sole provider, have next to zero government funding for mental health and abuse issues, make up 3/4 of suicide victims in NA, make up 3/4 of the homeless population in NA, have an extreme bias against them in Divorce/Family Courts, ridiculed when open about their problems, often assumed to be a pedophile or a rapist if they're alone with kids (even if it's their own kids), often assumed to be a sexual predator solely because they were born male, severally falling behind in education, make up 1/4 of Post Secondary students, and are generally demonized by society for simply existing.

But men totally get a "free ride in life", because some insane blue-haired Feminists with a degree in 'Feminist Dance Theory', said so...

Who is ridiculing men talking about their problems here ?

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Why is it such a difficult task for 99% of feminists to acknowledge that men also face their own forms of discrimination, sexism and challenges? Why must it always be a "but we have it worse" or "it's because of patriarchy" BS argument?

The...article flat out says that ?

[Torto]

Ugh...what a nauseating read. What a shock that a feminists answer for men with issues is for them to be more like women.

It's a mans burden in life to face toil, adversity and hardship. Toughen the fuck up.

[Mirishka]

There is terrible shit that both genders go through, of course. But that doesn't mean there is parity (or even close).

[glowzone]

I don't mind having to be stoic, it's what the world requires of men and most of us will gladly pick up that mantle.
What I do mind is the people men are breaking their minds and bodies to protect turning around and insulting them and telling them they got it easy.

Luckily that's not the standard, as far as I know.

[Mihalik]

There's one thing I learned about talking about your feelings. You are always told how you should talk about your feelings, but often as soon as you make an effort and talk about your feelings to a significant other that puts a dent in the relationship. You can talk about your feelings to friends (male or female), family etc but with your significant other you have to tread lightly with.

The other thing that I learned is never to fight about anything. You won't and can't win, no matter how important is it for you or how strongly you feel about the subject of the argument. You sit it out, take whatever comes your way and afterwards cross your fingers and hope that they'll come around.

[Deleted]

people would trust i can do something i say i can do instead of questioning, wouldnt be downplaying ur skills and knowledge because ur a woman... more opportunities, more money to make... less indecent suggestions or behavior from male coworkers or customers in ur work... wouldnt have to think as much about how u behave when u are drinking or risk being sexually assaulted... women arent put off if men take initiative in dating but if women take initiative in dating a lot of men are put off... if u are upset about something then people wouldnt try to blame it on ur cycle... i would be stronger naturally without exercise...

Change the sexual parts to agression, bullying or jealousy and you described the life of a man. And the people doing this to men are both men and women, depends on what workfield you're in.

Seriously, you'd do well to stop thinking that men dont face things such as these, because we do, every day and we just take it and keep going for the most part. But shit can build up and eventually the weight of pent up emotions gets to you and from there depression or even suicide isnt far off, I should know. I work with these men, and women, trying to help them rebuild their confidence and feeling of self-worth.

80-90% of the issues in modern western socities is due to the belief that gender somehow matters in regards to ones capabilities, sexuality or personality. Are there biases? Sure, but are they absolute? Not in the slightest.

Men do not live easier lives than women, both genders face their own hardships and thinking that they do not is honestly naive and abit disgusting as well.

Men are not forgiven for mistakes when a woman would be.
Men are not approached socially by other men, for women its socially acceptable to make friends all life.
Men are not allowed to be sensitive or show emotions openly without being seen as wierd or weak.
Men are not allowed to be quiet or shy without being labeled a wierdo or creep.
Men are expected to pursue love interests, while nearly never being pursued themselves.


The men you SEE are not the ones suffering, it's the ones ignored because they doesn't fit the mold that slips through the cracks in society. There is a reason why most suicides are by men and most attempts by women, because women get noticed far easier.

Men are thought to stay strong, to be sexually active and to be assertive.

Women are thought to be pretty, to be sexually restrictive and to be modest.

No fucking wonder there are social issues when kids are raised this differently, and parents are notoriously bad to notice that their kids might not fit the mold.

[Bodakane]

I'm 44 and have never experienced a single hardship due to being a man.

The hardest thing about being male in this world is living in a house with 6 large dogs with wagging tails at my testicle latitude.

if any guy tells you they have hardships because they are male, it is because someone has problem with them being an asshole or they are perfectly fine but surround themselves with assholes and get grief for not being more like them.