Dps Score idea for Pugs

[Very Tired]

So I think we can safety agree no one really cares about Proving Grounds ranking. Heck, I only did it for the awesome title I wear. But I did have a quick idea I had as an improvement to the Proving Grounds that could help find better quality pug DPS:

-Like the proving grounds you queue up, zone in alone, and find a single target dummy in the center of the room.
-Flask, potions, food, and consumables are provided for you, but only last while in the instance. No other consumables allowed.
-Timer counts down to begin and players attacks the target dummy for a specific amount of predetermined time (1 - 2 mins or so) with everything they've got.
-Abilities that need to be interrupted and fire that needs to be avoided are also present, so players can't just stare at their action bars the entire time. Mostly to check if they can acknowledge that their interrupt is a thing that exists and is on their bars.
-No heroism/bloodlust allowed.
-Players can attempt this as many times as they want.
-Item levels could even be scaled so everyone is on an even playing field in terms of gear.

After their time is up the game calculates the player's DPS for the attempt. Their highest score on record is displayed next to a player's item level whenever they are queueing for a DPS spot in LFG.

Of course, this idea is mainly aimed towards players that actually pug and want to improve their chances at getting picked, so people who stick to guild & friend groups don't have to worry about this. Though it could be a fun competition between players to see who could rank the highest. It's basically a more simple raider.io score except you can't be carried through it (like buying heroic runs), you and only you have better control over how high or low it is, and it isn't controlled by a 3rd party website. Something that'll help you avoid players that get out dpsed by the healers. I know there's no chance Blizzard would actually put something like this in game, seeing as they wouldn't want to disenfranchise their lower skilled player base, but I'm still curious to see what others think about this.

[Tier539]

The community would become obsessed with that number and would ignore things like AoE Dps, utillity etc. would be a shit metric to have in game. would be just as bad if not worse than ilvl

[Mirishka]

Or people could, you know, just play the goddamn game and stop trying to quantify everything with a score or some other stupid number.

/shrug

[Jonnusthegreat]

Well I definitely wouldn't want it to scale down, that's for sure. And proving grounds pretty much does everything you said.

[mickybrighteyes]

honestly people need to stop looking for short cuts to evaluate one another and learn to use the tools that are already around.

[Kals]

No. We don't need another stupid number metric to approve or decline someone. Just deal with the pugs or use the stupid raider io bullshit everyone else uses if you care that much.

[Nikkaszal]

I mean it's a slippery slope, but FFXIV actually had a neat idea along this vein.

The training dummies in this game have varying amounts of health based on what boss and difficulty you have it "set" for. That is, you pick a boss and raid difficulty setting you want, a dummy is generated for you, and a timer begins when you first hit it.

If you are able to kill the dummy before the timer runs out, you meet the standard DPS requirement for that particular boss.

Obviously it's a little different here since FFXIV has like one-boss raids, but the concept was pretty cool.

[killwithpwr]

There was this cool thing in Legion, where you could enter a solo scenario where you needed to have good knowledge of your spec, good surroundings awareness and som edecent gear (although - not that good... You could do it in hc raid gear of a raid that has been out for a few months allready)

It gave you a cool mog option for your weapon and an achievement.

I think Blizzard should expand on that and give us these types of scenarios back, but not as a way to judge when queing into groups. More as a means to reward players for their knowledge of the game with cool visual effects.

Thing is with solo scenarios as a measure to get into group content, its massively different.
Just because a person knows how to interrupt, does not mean they know what to interrupt.
Just because a person knows how to use their CC, does not mean they know what to use their CC on.

Having experience in the content you que in will always be superior to anything else.

If i have a Shrine key (lets say 10) i would rather invite a 500 score person who has done Shrine 5 times ranging from 2-10 than getting in a person with 1k score that has his highest and only Shrine at 9.

[glowpipe]

And whats next. A paper from your local policestation stating you do not molest dogs to be able to join pugs ? We do not need ANYTHING that splits the small playerbase we got. Raider.io and now the social rejects using bestkeystone data to accept or decline people into shit is bad enough. And you actually want a fucking number stating how much dps someone is capable of ? Which btw blizzard would NEVER be able to get right. And would be 100% exploitable one way or another, giving really bad players a high score they never would be able to utilize in a real dps scenario

[Very Tired]

There was this cool thing in Legion, where you could enter a solo scenario where you needed to have good knowledge of your spec, good surroundings awareness and som edecent gear (although - not that good... You could do it in hc raid gear of a raid that has been out for a few months allready)

It gave you a cool mog option for your weapon and an achievement.

I think Blizzard should expand on that and give us these types of scenarios back, but not as a way to judge when queing into groups. More as a means to reward players for their knowledge of the game with cool visual effects.

Thing is with solo scenarios as a measure to get into group content, its massively different.
Just because a person knows how to interrupt, does not mean they know what to interrupt.
Just because a person knows how to use their CC, does not mean they know what to use their CC on.

Having experience in the content you que in will always be superior to anything else.

If i have a Shrine key (lets say 10) i would rather invite a 500 score person who has done Shrine 5 times ranging from 2-10 than getting in a person with 1k score that has his highest and only Shrine at 9.

The thing you're thinking about is called the Mage Tower. They were pretty cool and Blizzard might add something like that in the next patch seeing as they were pretty popular. The only problem is most people outgeared them eventually so the test of knowing your class and it's abilities perfectly wasn't really there by the next raid tier.

[Aphrel]

Or you could just have an addon give medals based on your highest M+ logs for each instance. If your the highest dps in your group, gold.. 2nd silver. last bronze.
(assuming tanks or healers doesnt beat you^^).

You could even differentiate between trash and bosses.

So for example, Instead of just a raider.io score for instance and overall. You also see a ratio of between 1-3 (3 being gold dmg every single run, 1 being last on dmg every run) for both trash and boss.

[Nikkaszal]

Or you could just have an addon give medals based on your highest M+ logs for each instance. If your the highest dps in your group, gold.. 2nd silver. last bronze.
(assuming tanks or healers doesnt beat you^^).

You could even differentiate between trash and bosses.

So for example, Instead of just a raider.io score for instance and overall. You also see a ratio of between 1-3 (3 being gold dmg every single run, 1 being last on dmg every run) for both trash and boss.

That's a great way to encourage even more people to ignore mechanics and blindly tunnel to pad meters and chase validation

[Nutri]

What this game certainly does not need is another score for people to measure 'skill' with.

All it does is fracture the playerbase even more. You can't put a number on skill.
Also, it is never a guarantee, as any of these scores or requirements are. I can do my utmost best to get the highest possible score in your dps system, and then do fuck all in dungeons because I got Netflix on the second monitor.

If any system could be of use, it'll be a simple list of the highest achieved m+ runs in time and that's it. Go by the simple logic of 'if this guy was able to complete this key in time, he probably knows how to play his class and how this dungeon works'.

[Aphrel]

That's a great way to encourage even more people to ignore mechanics and blindly tunnel to pad meters and chase validation

And then they wont make the timer and get a bad score.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

The thing you're thinking about is called the Mage Tower. They were pretty cool and Blizzard might add something like that in the next patch seeing as they were pretty popular. The only problem is most people outgeared them eventually so the test of knowing your class and it's abilities perfectly wasn't really there by the next raid tier.

A Mage tower scenario with scaled / templated gear would be awesome test of skill.

ALTHOUGH, people can still buy a piloted boost

I've been using Raider.io to check who to invite for mythic+, but it seems that people are buying +10s timed runs for gold and raising their score to 1k now ....

Played with a BM hunter that had 2 timed mythic 15 runs (10-11 in all others) and he was complete shit.

I'm sticking to playing with friends for now.

[Very Tired]

What this game certainly does not need is another score for people to measure 'skill' with.

All it does is fracture the playerbase even more. You can't put a number on skill.
Also, it is never a guarantee, as any of these scores or requirements are. I can do my utmost best to get the highest possible score in your dps system, and then do fuck all in dungeons because I got Netflix on the second monitor.

If any system could be of use, it'll be a simple list of the highest achieved m+ runs in time and that's it. Go by the simple logic of 'if this guy was able to complete this key in time, he probably knows how to play his class and how this dungeon works'.

Have you played any competitive game ever? Putting a number on skill is literally all they do.

And let's stop with the argument that a system has to be flawless to be implemented. Raider.io doesn't guarantee perfect pug players, it never claimed to, but it does better your chances and people like it for that. It would be the same thing with this system.

You could literally watch Netflix in a pug right now. How is that your argument?

[Aurora]

No, it's a team game and those sort of personal measurements are only useful to an extent, an extent which the likes of the proving grounds already cover if anyone cares to use it. I'd go so far as to say that specs are so simple these days that anyone can play anything to a reasonable level and dodging fire or interrupting are such simple skills that can be taken for granted.
Most groups with well geared and well experienced players tend to fail due to a clash of personalities or poor cohesion and communication in terms of handling the necessary mechanics which are difficult things to measure with a number.

[Nutri]

Have you played any competitive game ever? Putting a number on skill is literally all they do.

And let's stop with the argument that a system has to be flawless to be implemented. Raider.io doesn't guarantee perfect pug players, it never claimed to, but it does better your chances and people like it for that. It would be the same thing with this system.

You could literally watch Netflix in a pug right now. How is that your argument?

Okay, I'll bite. Yes, I agree but the thing is that the WoW API does not offer any skill tracking. In other competitive games you have i.e. k/d ratio, accuracy, headshots, caps, hits, misses, revives, melee kills, etc etc etc.

Currently all that for example RaiderIO offers is a reflection of the WoW top 500 leaderboards. Their score is then fabricated solely on the fact if you managed to get an entry into the top500. So if somebody is an allstar player, stunning, fearing, interrupting like a madman, never go oom, save the tank, kite like Bolt or single handedly kill the last 20% of a boss his HP while the rest of the team is dead... This does not matter at all for the RaiderIO score. In fact, you could be the very best m+10 player there is and only play m+10, if you happen to play only on sun/mondays the leaderboards on highpop realms will have a lowest entry level of a +12 in time. So no matter how good you ace that dungeon, your score will always be lower compared to those who did that run on tue/wed. And people forming groups will never know what kind of player that is all because "he's not 1k so he is unskilled" compared to that dude being super lucky and got on the leaderboard because he was able to play a lot Tuesday afternoon. And that's how score is a very disrupted reflection for a player's 'skill' expressed in a number. Not alone to mention a ilvl 350 dude who happened to have enough gold to buy a heroic Curve and suddenly gets instant invites for Heroic Uldir.

But yes I fully understand there needs to be a way to determine a player's capabilities, but the current system is just not reflecting that at all.
All your suggestion does is ask three things of players, Curve + high rIO + high dps score.

I'm not waving a stick around offering a solution either, all I can think of is a super simple system; hoover over a player in LFD and it will show the highest in time cleared level of m+ for each dungeon, raid progression akin of the wow armory. This is still not watertight and prone to spoofing, but at least it is a realistic list of things accomplished by players - until the API will go indepth and pull stuff from a damage meter or smt showing interrupts and all that jazz.

[Kerathul]

Let's make Warcraftlogs addon a thing where you can see the overall percentile you do on normal, heroic and mythic.

No more inviting boosted people in a pug, no more special snowflakes. Say what you want but there is a huge difference of mentalitiy between an orange parse player and a blue parse player.

[quite an expert in wow]

Have you played any competitive game ever? Putting a number on skill is literally all they do.

And let's stop with the argument that a system has to be flawless to be implemented. Raider.io doesn't guarantee perfect pug players, it never claimed to, but it does better your chances and people like it for that. It would be the same thing with this system.

You could literally watch Netflix in a pug right now. How is that your argument?

No, let's rather stop with pointless buggy addons that display a 'score' that can lie far from the truth. Boosted keys tell me nothing. Achievements like realm first, gladiator and the like tell me more about a player.

Especially this expansion raider.io was so buggy and gave me nothing in return, that I just stopped using it. Also I would recommend people to instead find a guild or community to find people of their skill level, instead of fragmenting it with random groups that have nothing with each other in common.