Those WW nerfs

[Raern]

The touch of karma nerf was to be expected but nerfing touch of death as well with no compensation? Can't say I'm surprised in the slightest.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=288111/...-class-changes

[TheRogue]

You mean besides the 4% flat buff to all spells?

[Deleted]

I thought WW's were slightly undertuned without ToK dmg? How will ToD dmg nerf affect your dps position?

Edited: Oh right, 4% increase in dmg described as 27% to 23% decreased dmg. I guess that would slightly increase overall raid dmg?

Also, since when were MW overtuned in comparison to other healers?
"Enveloping Mist Wraps the target in healing mists, healing for [ 247.5% [ 216% of Spell Power ] over 6 sec, and increasing healing received from your other spells by 0%. Monk - Mistweaver Spec. Monk - Mistweaver Spec. 5.2% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2 sec cast."

[Raiz]

You mean besides the 4% flat buff to all spells?

ToK did more than 10% of our DPS. Even with a 4% buff to all spell, you'd still be doing less DPS than before. It's just Blizz's way of saying, "I know we've nerfed you to the ground, but look ! You got a flat DPS buff in all spell ! Isn't that great ?" while in fact it's sh.t.

[Saverem]

The touch of karma nerf was to be expected but nerfing touch of death as well with no compensation? Can't say I'm surprised in the slightest.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=288111/...-class-changes

It was buffed, actually. We got a flat 4% buff for the cost of toning down our ToK/ToD damage which was warranted tbh. I hate having to rely on that 1 trick pony burst to do damage and I especially hate having to purposely stand on fire to do more.

Keep in mind that ToK now puts an ABSORB on you. This shit is EXCELLENT! It means if the target dies or goes immune (iceblock/bubble/etc) you no longer lose ToK! Great change for PvP!

Also if this is true:

Pressure Points Touch of Death now instantly kills targets at or below 10% health and its cooldown is instantly reset when targets die from Touch of Death's damage or with Touch of Death active, the cooldown is reset. PvP Talent. Requires Monk. Requires level 40+.

You have no idea how OP this shit will be for PvP. Imagine getting a Priest down to 10% and he pops barrier and Dispersion and thinks he's saved only to still be instantly killed by the Monk. Holy shit that is an OP trait for Arenas. Can't count how many times I've taken someone to around 10% only for them to pop CDs and be saved by the healer. If this insta kills them at 10%, then no CDs (except for immunities) would make them safe from death.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, since when were MW overtuned in comparison to other healers?
"Enveloping Mist Wraps the target in healing mists, healing for [ 247.5% [ 216% of Spell Power ] over 6 sec, and increasing healing received from your other spells by 0%. Monk - Mistweaver Spec. Monk - Mistweaver Spec. 5.2% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2 sec cast."

The worst part of that change is they didn't reduce mana cost to compensate. I don't mind nerfing throughput BUT keeping it costing that absurd amount of mana is just retarded. MWs are the most mana intensive healer in the game. They should have reduced mana cost by 1% to compensate.

- - - Updated - - -

ToK did more than 10% of our DPS. Even with a 4% buff to all spell, you'd still be doing less DPS than before. It's just Blizz's way of saying, "I know we've nerfed you to the ground, but look ! You got a flat DPS buff in all spell ! Isn't that great ?" while in fact it's sh.t.

Yeah? And ToK was nerfed by about 50%, so it'll still do about 5% of your damage...sounds about even. That 4% buff also effects our cleave damage, which means it's a BUFF for us in damage in M+ or fights with more than 1 target even with ToK nerf (which I think was needed).

[Deleted]

ToK did more than 10% of our DPS. Even with a 4% buff to all spell, you'd still be doing less DPS than before. It's just Blizz's way of saying, "I know we've nerfed you to the ground, but look ! You got a flat DPS buff in all spell ! Isn't that great ?" while in fact it's sh.t.

Well, i'm no expert in math but an increase of 4% to what constitute 90% of your DPS is better than the nerf. Also it increase your cleave and aoe damage which are not cover by ToD/ToK.

May not be a clear buff, but it's not "nerfed to the ground"

[Deleted]

Well, i'm no expert in math but an increase of 4% to what constitute 90% of your DPS is better than the nerf. Also it increase your cleave and aoe damage which are not cover by ToD/ToK.

May not be a clear buff, but it's not "nerfed to the ground"

100*0,73 = 73
90*0,77 = 69,3 <- this does not yet include ToD damage (after change), I guess this might be slightly higher on single target and definitly higher in multitarget situations

[Deleted]

Its a buff even with Tok at 12.4% from simcraft page.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

ToK did more than 10% of our DPS. Even with a 4% buff to all spell, you'd still be doing less DPS than before. It's just Blizz's way of saying, "I know we've nerfed you to the ground, but look ! You got a flat DPS buff in all spell ! Isn't that great ?" while in fact it's sh.t.

A 25% nerf to a spell that did 10% of your overall. Is that what constitutes for "nerfed to the ground" now? Two spells nerfed by a miniscule amount and that damage compensated as a 4% increase to everything else is nowhere near "nerfed to the ground". (25% of 10 is 2.5%, 4% overall to the remaining 90% is 3,6%)

[Caprix]

Going from -27% to -23% is not a 4% buff guys.. it's more like 5.5% buff ! (0.77/0.73 = 1.0548)

I'm a bit concerned by the things about envm here, no more heal bonus ? Wtf.

[Deleted]

If theyd removed the healing bonus, it would have been removed from description instead of stating 0% increase, nothing to worry about there.
But reducing its healing without compensating for lesser mana costs seems wrong to me.

[Caprix]

Hopefully.. a 13% nerf is already huge if mana cost stay the same.

[Pronbear]

A 25% nerf to a spell that did 10% of your overall. Is that what constitutes for "nerfed to the ground" now? Two spells nerfed by a miniscule amount and that damage compensated as a 4% increase to everything else is nowhere near "nerfed to the ground". (25% of 10 is 2.5%, 4% overall to the remaining 90% is 3,6%)

To be exact, it's a nerf on ToD + the one announced previously on ToK (with talent).
I think that is a 33% nerf on ToD + 33% nerf on Tok, so a 33% nerf on approximately 20-25% of our damages in the best situation. Which equals to a 6-7% nerf.

Meanwhile we get a 5.5% buff overall (u can check Caprix maths just below your message). So its a slightly nerf in Single Target, but prolly a good buff in AoE.


Which is fine for me, since a I do mostly M+ dungeons.

I'm still concerned about our overall performance in raid tho since Uldir already favors other melee classes than ww monks. But the Zandalar one may favor other classes, wait and see.

[Kaver]

ToK did more than 10% of our DPS. Even with a 4% buff to all spell, you'd still be doing less DPS than before. It's just Blizz's way of saying, "I know we've nerfed you to the ground, but look ! You got a flat DPS buff in all spell ! Isn't that great ?" while in fact it's sh.t.

"Nerfed to the ground" I love how people welcome changes

[kran1um]

Did anyone actually use Enveloping Mists in Raids - hell even in M+?

WW needs more than 4% damage increase, the kicky punchy feel like slaps.

[Caprix]

Did anyone actually use Enveloping Mists in Raids - hell even in M+?

Wtf is this question?

[mjolnrik]

Did anyone actually use Enveloping Mists in Raids - hell even in M+?

WW needs more than 4% damage increase, the kicky punchy feel like slaps.

Well its probably why mistweavers are considered 1 of the best tank healers atm. 30% increase healing on a target is nothing to scoff at. Yea I dont use it much in raids since raid healing is my prefered playstyle, uses a fuckton of mana and tanks dont have much problem surviving. But in mythic+ its the sorta leave and forget on the tank whilst you are dpsing.

[Juliansfist]

Btw pressure points azerite trait is not as OP as it seems. It basically turns ToD into its original form but with the bonus of a CD reset. For PVP getting a player down to 10% will be a lot easier title more difficult without having ToD. In PVE though, given the right situation the trait could be a wrecking ball where you are able to chain multiple ToD.

Will be interesting to see if the 4% buff is enough to offset ToK and ToD nerfs for ST.

WW I find already lacks definition as we have average ST and only good MT.

[united]

Did anyone actually use Enveloping Mists in Raids - hell even in M+?

WW needs more than 4% damage increase, the kicky punchy feel like slaps.

this is a joke right?

[Parhelion]

If this is the first pass in removing monk's reliance on a defensive CD for DPS, then it's going in the right direction.
I'm not surprised by the ToK nerf, PvP is apparently dictates every ability tuning in this game. So here's a big middle finger to whoever got the idea of introducing competitive PvP to this game.
Considering how bland this future 8.1 WW monk will be, I suspect the 5.5% damage boost is not enough. More like a 13% would do the trick.

I certainly hope that a company like Blizzard will somehow manage to hire several competents class developers in the near future, because these corporate aparatchiks are clearly not up to the task.