Why do people have a problem with titanforging?

[Deleted]

That is pure bullshit. You don't know me. I don't even look at other people's marks.



Also bullshit. Grades are not given for effort. Grades are given for knowing the answers. And they should be.

Because knowing the answers isn't a consequence of studying hence putting effort.

/s

[Battlebeard]

Because you should never feel forced to grind outdated content when you have the ilvl of the avarage dropped gear.

For instance, Uldir, normal mode drop 355, when you have an avarage ilvl of 355, you are DONE with normal and should never feel incentive to go back there. HC drop 370 and when you have an avarage ilvl of 370 you are DONE with heroic, etc.

Going back to outdated content to farm low % gear upgrade, even if the current raid, is wrong!

We need to remove WF and TF so that you can truly max out your gear in one difficulty and then ONLY focus on HARDER ones.

We need to move forward, not backwards with gear progression, just like we do with boss kills!

[Gungnir]

Personal luck or bad luck is something familiar to every roleplayer. I'm not sure if you are familiar with One Ring. It's a system dedicated to playing in Tolkien's Middle-Earth. Every roll includes a twelve-sided die numbered 1-10 plus a Gandalf rune (always good) and an Eye of Sauron (always bad). I have a guy in my group who rolls an Eye roughly every second roll.

Yep, have some friends who either always gets lucky or never gets lucky, it's pretty interesting.

Now insane gear inflation is something I can agree with. Come on, we started this expansion with 200 but the cap is already double that and it is only the first tier... And most of that gap is in leveling. I don't think we ever had such a large gap covered by leveling gear. Also there are too many sources for easy epics so not only normal, but heroic dungeon gear is entirely meaningless, therefore gear differentiation only begins past 340. I believe these must also be taken into account when we talk about gear inflation. Titanforging is a culprit, yes, but not the only one.

Of course, gear inflation is because Blizzard wants there to be inflation, as if I remember correctly they decided that "the playerbase likes upgrades to be atleast 10 ilvls". What they're basing that upon, I am not entirely sure as I don't remember there being any poll regarding the matter and I think it would be an incredibly hard thing to discern through metrics alone.
Tightening Titanforging is a good way of tightening that inflation up, even though the core system will need to be adjusted to reduce the inflation even further, but as you said it's definitely a culprit in the matter.

I would be accomodating towards proposals to tone titanforging down. I do not think it should go entirely - like I said, +5-10 levels actually grease transitions - but maybe chances could be tweaked. For all we know, it's a repeated roll right now with every roll having the same individual chance. Blizzard could tweak it so that the base chance is greater but there is a roll every upgrade to see if it's a socket and if it is, the rolling ends. Obviously, I would slant that roll towards the socket. That way, level upgrades would likely peter out sooner, while we would have more sockets all around. Sockets are good because they give players agency over their stats beyond equipping the best gear on hand.

To be honest, just having a +5ilvl and having socket rolls would be a good way to make items feel like a bonus. Depending on how it feels, you could also up the power of gems a bit.
I completely agree with the fact that giving players more agency over their stats is a good way to inherently make gearing a lot more rewarding at its core since you're actively making choices on what you'd like your character to focus on.
Sure a lot of people might just say "well stack the best stat, easy" and though that might be true in PvE, WoW is a lot more than just PvE.
I miss being able to stack haste through sockets and enchants for PvP and general utility as it actively impacted how my class felt and behaved like and it felt like I had more control over what my character should feel like.

[Flarelaine]

Because knowing the answers isn't a consequence of studying hence putting effort.

/s

Not a direct consequence. I passed a lot of exams just by paying attention in class.

[Deleted]

Not a direct consequence. I passed a lot of exams just by paying attention in class.

That is still putting effort, you were literally studying while paying attention.

[Bhanzai]

I don't care, but I'm an adult and not a special snowflake.

I could care less if somebody who ran a LFR got some titanforged gear that boosted that gears stats. It makes no difference to me. As a matter of fact I don't look at other players to see what they are wearing, because I don't care. I play the game because I enjoy paying the game, not because I want to feel better about myself because my gear is better than yours. I firmly believe that any 'adult' who complains about gear in a video game that will be replaced next week, next month or next year has emotional or mental health issues. Its a damn game. Get over it.

But like I said, I'm an adult.

[Flarelaine]

That is still putting effort, you were literally studying while paying attention.

If you insist. I agree merely staying awake in some classes took effort.

- - - Updated - - -

I miss being able to stack haste through sockets and enchants for PvP and general utility as it actively impacted how my class felt and behaved like and it felt like I had more control over what my character should feel like.

I'm with you there. I never liked Blizzard's reasoning that enchants/gems were mandatory and therefore wrong. I liked getting them right and I even miss colour-coded sockets. Sure, sometimes pimping the gear was expensive but that was part of the deal.

[IceMan1763]

I don't care, but I'm an adult and not a special snowflake.

But like I said, I'm an adult.

I feel like adult is just based on age and people who are old believe they are both wise and mature because they are older. Unfortunately the reality is that I've known immature people of every age and young people who are mature way beyond what their actual age would suggest.

Let me clue you in on something... someone who is mature wouldn't call a whole group of people with a differing opinion about a video game "special snowflakes". You may be "old", but you're not mature, sorry.

[shyguybman]

My alt is higher ilvl than my main with probably 1/2 the time played due to RNG

[Lilly32]

Because you can never be BiS.
There is always an upgrade.
The grind never stops.
You can never complete your character.

which is the point of a MMO. If you could accomplish this GG you beat the game no reason to play anymore.

[ToxicFlame]

which is the point of a MMO. If you could accomplish this GG you beat the game no reason to play anymore.

ofc there is, there's more to the game than just raiding.
Also there's alts and helping out guildies.

[Naked Snake]

You just making you more laughable and less serious if you suggesting the rng of the game at the start and now are only remotly in the same number range.

Back in Vanilla, the chances of getting the item you wanted were very slim, because only very few items dropped per boss and you were raiding with 39 other people. Then you had to deal with all sorts of politics, people using their connections in the guild to get what they wanted at the expense of others. Systems like DKP rewarding people who saved up their points so they get target a certain specific item. Some items, especially legendaries had incredibly low drop chances, like 5% and if you needed two halves, like for Thunderfury, or both Warglaives from Illidan, even if one dropped, it might be the wrong.

Today however we have personal loot. We have bonus rolls. We have bad luck protection. We get gear from all sorts of different content, like quests, dungeons, raids, world bosses, warfronts. It was never easier to get loot, so RNG never mattered less.

[Naked Snake]

It was way easier in vanilla and tbc to obtain BiS

You keep talking about best in slot, as if that matters to 99,99% of the playerbase. The vast majority of players are not obsessed with getting best in slot and realize that a new content patch will bring better gear anyway, for as long as the game runs.

[Naked Snake]

And you keep building a strawman army arround my question. Is it the same chance of obtaining the same item before and now in the game? No it isnt. Because its an rng fiesta

Does that make your comprasion "its the same ammount rng" moronic? Yes, yes it does

If you want a specific piece now, the chance to get it is much higher than it used to be, because of personal loot, bad luck protection and bonus rolls.

[Naked Snake]

No it isnt because if that would be the case it would be easier to obtain BiS

Stop posting if you cant finish a coherent thougth in your head

It's harder to obtain BiS because of Titanforging. That doesn't mean it's harder to get gear. Gear drops all the time from a variety of sources. It might come as a surprise to you, but most people don't care about BiS and it actually doesn't matter, cause you don't need it to kill all the bosses. You are obsessing over something that doesn't matter.

[crono14]

It's harder to obtain BiS because of Titanforging. That doesn't mean it's harder to get gear. Gear drops all the time from a variety of sources. It might come as a surprise to you, but most people don't care about BiS and it actually doesn't matter, cause you don't need it to kill all the bosses. You are obsessing over something that doesn't matter.

Stop assuming you think you know what players want and what they care about. You ever played an RPG before? Well guess what, you chase gear and have a list BiS gear for those games that you want to obtain. You can't just assume no one cares about their character feeling incomplete all the time with titanforging since it's been a valid complaint every time it is brought up.

It's a very valid complaint about the system which is also why Preach specifically references it in his video about titanforging. It's a mechanic to keep you playing the game period cause there is always a carrot you can never reach and also never a level playing field for competitive people.

[Bhanzai]

Let me clue you in on something... someone who is mature wouldn't call a whole group of people with a differing opinion about a video game "special snowflakes". You may be "old", but you're not mature, sorry.

Let me clue YOU in on something. Somebody who is mature doesn't care if one person gets a titanforged item from LFR and they don't get a titanforged item from ultra hard mode. A mature person would understand what RNG is. A mature person knows that there is no 'work' in this game and therefore they aren't entitled to any compensation for their 'work'. A mature person would understand that this is a video game and as such is a complete and utter waste of time. A mature person would understand that there is a lot more important things to worry about than something in a video game.

So yes, somebody who complains about gear (or the lack there of) is a special snowflake; immature; and a moron.

But I digress, I shouldn't expect anything better from the people who come to these forums

[Naked Snake]

Stop assuming you think you know what players want and what they care about.

The vast majority of players don't clear content on mythic.

[Naked Snake]

You ever played an RPG before? Well guess what, you chase gear and have a list BiS gear for those games that you want to obtain. You can't just assume no one cares about their character feeling incomplete all the time with titanforging since it's been a valid complaint every time it is brought up.

I don't assume no one cares. I assume most people don't care, while a minority of people obsess over something that doesn't matter.

[Naked Snake]

You cant target any specific of gear because the game is slot machine

Of course you can. You know what bosses drop.