Why Not Just Bring Back Emblems?

[clevin]

I just don't understand how Valor and Justice would fit in.

What ilevel would Justice give you? I remember Justice being heroic dungeon level gear - so ilevel 325.

Valor was entry-level raid tier. So before when it was just normal/heroic, it'd give you normal quality gear. At the moment, it'd be ilevel 355.

Kind of. The problem right now is a couple-fold....

1) It's super easy to get to 34x with warfronts, rares, etc. It's harder to get past a345 or 350 without normal raiding or higher (not high) keys.

2) It's hard to fill in those last 370+ slots since those only come from raids and ~9+ keys.

Valor at 355 addresses the first point - you can move past 345 or so more easily.

But, they'd also need to adjust the ease of getting 340 stuff. The problem really is that adding a currency won't solve things alone, they need to redo how they're doing loot entirely. For example, WQs need some incentive. Instead of dropping 325s, they'd likely need to drop justice. Warfronts couldn't rain 340 on you but then why would you do them more than once? It all interlocks, really.

[Voltsmasher]

I think that a lot of the gear inflation comes from world quests going all the way up to 345+ it's crazy. World quests should not be giving raid level or mythic +0 gear at all.

If this makes world quests useless after rep grind then so be it. Find another way to make world quests useful, they shouldn't be a possible way to get epic loot.

[Frolk]

Have us use valor points/emblems to upgrade/titanforge our gear, each upgrade costing more etc etc.

[hyphnos]

Because it didnt work - if you have emblem/valor points system means you have to cap it every week. Then people complained 24/7 that they are behind cause they didnt play a certain week. If you dont have a weekly cap you get the AP-MOS situation.

It means NO SUCH THING.

They have had escalating conquest caps in the past, meaning you don't have to earn your badges in time-locked manner. If you have an escalating cap where missing a week doesn't cost you anything, you have solved the thing you claim is insolvable.

Blizzard wants people playing daily, so in the past they have played games with the "bonus" dungeons and scenarios and shit being daily. This after using utter gibberish to toss out the 7 high value dungeons per week they had in Cataclysm, which meant you didn't lose for not playing every day and then even later they had a conquest cap that went up every week by 1000 or whatever.

The only reason the problem you cite existed, was because Blizzard designed the problem into the game and they could most assuredly design it out. (and have done so for pvp gearing in the past)

[dcc626]

Because Blizzard believes you enjoy experiencing randomness more that a careful grind.

seeing how people are now complaining about how long it will take to get the points to get the azerite pieces they want from the new vendor, id say this isnt that far off.

- - - Updated - - -

Have us use valor points/emblems to upgrade/titanforge our gear, each upgrade costing more etc etc.

and with a cap (which they most certainly would implement) you would likely upgrade a single item a week. would be fun to watch people melt down on the forums (I should be able to grind as much as i want if i want to!!!" lol

[Fumu]

Emblems solved the problem of RNGesus forsaking you.
Reforging solved the problem of stat priority making an upgrade potentially worthless.
Flying (at expansion's launch) solved the problem of traveling vast distances or taking an extra 15 minutes to hike around an unscaleable mountain, making the inevitable grind of dailies or whatever less painful.

It's been one step forward and two steps back since WoD and I still hate that they threw out these working systems in a botched attempt to reinvent the wheel. (Especially when, as seen by waking essences and the new azerite currency, they eventually say "Oh hey this actually WAS a good idea, let's bring back a halfassed version after enough people have voted with their wallets and unsubbed).

[sam86]

Ego.

you forgot to add pure greed, blizzard is owned by activision, the only 'gaming' company that has record that no one is even close to it, single handedly destroy entire video game industry in their insane pursuit of greed, with CEO that hate video games the most in world (he literally told his single wish is to remove fun from games, not wealth, not women, not even world domination like some bond maniac, no if he has only one wish, it will be to remove fun from games)

[Neverafter]

you forgot to add pure greed, blizzard is owned by activision, the only 'gaming' company that has record that no one is even close to it, single handedly destroy entire video game industry in their insane pursuit of greed, with CEO that hate video games the most in world (he literally told his single wish is to remove fun from games, not wealth, not women, not even world domination like some bond maniac, no if he has only one wish, it will be to remove fun from games)

I had never heard this before, so I set out to check. OMG, I can't believe someone in his position would say that.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ac.../1100-6226758/

Then I thought, oh, context, maybe if you had the context it would help. Not really.

Blizzard always says Activision doesn't intrude on their day to day stuff and all that, but with a guy like this in control, who knows. Wow.

[Molis]

Because someone other than Ion thought of it, and even though it was great for the game we can not have old employees ideas implemented.

[Onikaroshi]

I will quote my post in the official forums, what I would like to change in wow:

Where's my upvote button on this forum... this alone would get me back. (Though I would add Valor back to raids too)

[iamthedevil]

I really think it's just that Blizzard is too stubborn to do it. When they are wrong, they aren't wrong.

[sam86]

I had never heard this before, so I set out to check. OMG, I can't believe someone in his position would say that.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ac.../1100-6226758/

Then I thought, oh, context, maybe if you had the context it would help. Not really.

Blizzard always says Activision doesn't intrude on their day to day stuff and all that, but with a guy like this in control, who knows. Wow.

well a simple google will show u why bobby kodick is no competition the worst guy in video game industry, he is there for pure business, nothing else, he see us gamers as cows to be milked to last penny (he said that literally minus the word cow, that how he see us)
also activision caused the breakdown of entire video game industry way back when ET was released, if not for good guy nintendo make a massive risk and spend millions on video game industry to revive it, most experts agree that we would got a game like Super Mario quality by year 2000 at least

[tacoloco]

lol then justice should only come from normal raids and valor should only come from heroic.

There's no reason LFR should get another source of gear they don't deserve.

Filthy casuals is always a winning argument. /s

[papajohn4]

lol then justice should only come from normal raids and valor should only come from heroic.

There's no reason LFR should get another source of gear they don't deserve.

LFR is for solo players to see the content and Normal raid is for Family and friends type of guilds to see the content... Also the gear in raids will have different models/skin so it will also be desired for transmog.

Yes please. Pretty much this.

Heroic Raid should drop Valor as well. Emmissaries dropping it as well is really good. The more sources you can get, the more it motivates people to chose how they want to get their points, instead of having a pre-defined path to follow, as well as allow more casual players to also slowly progress to HC raid gear even if at a slower pace.

The reward system has been the main problem with WoW since MoP, especially during WoD and BfA. WoD is the perfect example. There was quite a few things you could do, but none of it rewarded anything relevant that could progress your character, so it just felt like there was nothing to do except raids.

Regarding the major problem people point out about Valor Points weekly cap (feeling forced to get to the cap every week, instead of just playing when you want): Just make so the weekly cap stacks. For instance, everyone starts with 0, and every week the cap increases by 1000. The points that you have acquired get removed. So for instance if on week 1 you did 500/1000, on week 2 your cap is 1500. Maybe not necessarily a 100% layover, simply don't punish people by making them sit "1 week behind" for missing 1 week, let them catch up. I think the pvp point system in MoP worked more or less like this and it worked really well.


I really hope they can realize this and bring emblems/points back as the core of the reward system in the next expansion. Ever since they removed it, they always end up bringing it back to some extent, even if only as a catch-up mechanism, because nothing else works as well. It is the perfect balance between RNG and deterministic progression, and it just worked. Bring it back!

Also, I don't know about every class/spec, but I must agree. Pretty much almost every class/spec I play felt better in either WotLK or MoP, or both.

Indeed, like how Conquest points cap was a while ago this will releive the pressure to cap every week!

why would you ever want to gain raid gear outside of raids? certain items should always drop from certain content. otherwise why would we just not introduce a vendor that sells every piece of equipment for gold?

Character development. There are 3 letters in the MMORPG tag, which is RPG. People who play the game want to develop their character, to progress and become stronger. I dont know where the idea of "only raiders need good gear" comes from but is wrong.. MMO are not lobby raiding games, they are RPGs in their core.

Where's my upvote button on this forum... this alone would get me back. (Though I would add Valor back to raids too)

Thanks! I just described WotLK and FFXIV gear system to be honest, but this worked good in both games :P

I don't understand the notion people have that they MUST have equal gear to others that put way more time into the game than others

Its not about who plays more time.. its what type of game you have to play.. majority of people dont like raiding. How about if the best gear available was crafting and you had to grind for months materials to be able to craft it? I would love this and I would grind to craft them because I love professions... but most raiders would cry rivers.. so its not about time investment, is about "play the game how I like to play (raids) or you get no gear"..

[cparle87]

As the title goes, it's a pretty straight forward idea. I'm 100% opposed to the Kadala style system currently being implemented because:

A. It's random, and that's a dumb thing to spend currency you have to grind for, and

B. They already had a decent system in previous expansions that worked well that wasn't random.

I didn't follow the forums back during TBC/Wrath/Cata as much as I do now, so maybe I missed a big portion of people who were opposed to the way that emblems worked back in the day? I never seemed to mind them. The new system seems so detrimental to the idea of actually working toward something guaranteed. If it's always going to be random, you could spend days/weeks/months grinding for loot and never get something better.

I feel like if they just brought back vendors with specific pieces of loot on them for emblems it would be a step in the right direction. Hell, even Cata's Justice/Valor Points seem to make more sense than this iteration of currency grinding... and THAT is saying something.

There were several problems with the badge system. First was that the gear might not be the right slot, or have the right stats, or you might get a good piece for that slot first week of raiding, and now the vendor has one less good thing for you to earn, and that would make it bad. Second was that there's be people who would go 'ooh purple with higher ilvl must be an up' and use it, only to find it's not an up. For instance in ICC there was an ilvl200 trinket (intro raid ilvl) from the DMF which was still BiS until heroic ICC for my spec because it had so much primary stat which was super strong for me. I also remember an ilvl264 (second highest ICC tier) trinket from the vendor which was absolutely dogshit, being far inferior to the DMF because it gave by far my worst stat. But people would just gobble it up for the gearscore points even if it hurt their performance, or just wore it for gearscore then put on their real gear.

[kamuimac]

I don't understand the notion people have that they MUST have equal gear to others that put way more time into the game than others. In almost every other game this would be ridiculed. Let's say hey, lets have people that are in the silver leauge (in League of legends) reach challenger after 700 games played, because they have invested some time into our game or an equal situation in CS:GO, That would never happen. So why do this occur in world of warcraft? I mean there is no shame or repercussion in not getting cutting edge mythic gear..

you are mistaking equal gear with steady slow but continius gear progression.

most people dont give a fuck about BiS gear , they dont chase it but they still want to feel stronger and stronger each week they play .

and current WF/TF systems are providing exackly this . this way farm isnt boring shit only chance for gear upgrades even if they dont need anything from boss X.

what pissed me the most when i was still raiding were people constantly beggiing to bring their alts in becaue their mains didnt need anything. and now they have reason to stay on mains. much less whining and drama. badges would never solve this problem . TF did.

[rohoz]

They won't put badges back in because badges always rewarded items higher than the content the badges came from, so people with no desire to do anything but the bare minimum spammed them to get gear (see wotlk, everyone's fav), and that effectively made hard content irrelevant, when one could just do dungeons tuned 20-50 itemlevels lower and get better gear

Case in point, remember how badges didn't give you weapons in wotlk, and how people cried about having to do ICC 5mans (which were tuned to the itemlevel it dropped)

[Deleted]

I will quote my post in the official forums, what I would like to change in wow:

-Introduce Justice and Valor Points.
-With Justice points you buy Normal Raide gear ilvl
-With valor you buy Heroic Raid gear ilvl
-Justice points have no cap and can be farmed in dungeons and World quests and LFR and Normal Raid
-Valor have weekly Cap, and can be farmed from First Heroic dungeon of the day, Emissaries, and mythic dungeons.
-Gearing full heroic raid ilvl from Valor should take you around 3-4 months if you cap every week
-Mythic raid gear is only obtainable by Mythic raid
-With Professions you can craft up to 2 items of heroic Raid ilvl. To do so you will need materials bought with Justice points and are boe. Others may buy them and sell them on AH. This will give intensives to geared players to farm justice points.
-Remove traits from Head/Chest/Shoulders and add a trait tree to the Neck and people will chose traits as the get more azerite power.
-Revert classes back to MoP or WotLK

I agree with alot of this, though 3-4months is a bit much, if you cap each week.

Remember in Cata when you could buy epic BOE's from valor?
Was a nice option and still made you cap each week, even if you had BiS.

And I totally agree with reverting classes back to MoP or WotLK.
(I loved the classes in MoP, but I can see how the movement was too overpowered.)

[RoKPaNda]

Somewhere at Blizzard they're laughing right now at how people think they want points/emblems back. It was a garbage system, it was complained about at all levels of play. Shit, the relinquished vendors were better than justice/valor because at least with relinquished and titanforging there was a chance that an item would be useful.

I played through every iteration of justice/valor and there was not a single time where it wasn't complete shit. By far the worst was when it was used for item level upgrades, ugh, what a chore that was.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

You would have exactly the same gear at the exact same time as other people playing the spec you do.