[Music] Metal

[hellhamster]

What are you guys top 5 so far this year?

Overall (metal didn't make my top 5 so far)

Daughters
Autechre
Against all Logic
MGMT
Binker and Moses

Metal only:

Imperial Triumphant
Voivod
Horrendous
Wolvennest
Messa

[Cairhiin]

Overall (metal didn't make my top 5 so far)

Daughters
Autechre
Against all Logic
MGMT
Binker and Moses

Metal only:

Imperial Triumphant
Voivod
Horrendous
Wolvennest
Messa

Gotta listen to that Imperial Triumphant! I thought the Voivod was okay but I've never really been a Voivod fan but I can see why people really dig that album.

[tlitd]

What makes None So Vile an enjoyable listen for me is the pure authenticity of the band. You can tell that they are playing harder and faster than they actually can but they are so wild and crazy that they can make it work. Just like Sadus on Illusions.

Past that I also just enjoy Lord Worm's performance and the drumming in general. Lord Worm has a skilled hand in putting on memorable vocal performances and creating memorable moments. The drumming is enjoyable from both aural and technical perspectives. The snare has been tuned especially well on None So Vile.

The band combines all of this into songs that are both technically impressive and visceral experiences. The music has weight and impact.
[snip]Link to Phobophile[/snip]

I'm not trying to convince you that None So Vile is an enjoyable listen, but maybe this gives you an idea what people may like about this particular album and maybe my angle opens up a way for you to enjoy the album a bit more.

To be absolutely fair, I didn't remember any song featured on NSV by its name other than the aforementioned Slit. After listening to the first ten seconds of Phobophile, I've had a glorious eureka moment; that is to say, I remember both listening to it way back in the day and also liking it for what it is. I still like it for what it is, a technical tour de force (as you've already stated). To reiterate upon my previous post, I can find "structure" into it. The "message" isn't there (for me), the "emotion" isn't there (for me), but that sole hook is enough to allow me to connect to it somehow.

Way late to the convo but I find myself swinging the opposite direction as tlitd. I've been jamming melodeath, OSDM and the like for so long that dxc, bdm and slam come off as refreshing. In the last year I've listened to hundreds of deathcore, slam and brutal death releases and it's all just dumb fun I can listen to with my friends and laugh when the drums go crazy or the vocals go over the top guttural. I'm also finding plenty of releases that are legitimately great, though to be honest I can't help but enjoy almost any bdm/dxc/slam I consume. It does cleanse my palate though for when I inevitably return to black metal, which like tlitd is my "main" genre.

Oh how, that's mighty impressive. Not only that you've hit the proverbial nail on the head, but you've also illustrated perfectly an argument which was further iterated upon as the other guys started to discuss about power metal. Fun! The hyperbolic bane of my (metal) existence, in all seriousness. I don't listen to metal to have fun, pardon me if that sounds borderline snobbish and/or elitist. While I wouldn't like to stoop to the level of psychological mumbo-jumbo, I can't explain it to others without mentioning that I connect to metal in other ways. Either resonating to a certain state of mind (not necessarily negative, despite listening to so much black), either for relaxation purposes (the mellower offspring of black, the likes of ambient/atmospheric/melodic/symphonic/blackgaze, they are all fitting candidates to invoke and nurture daydreaming), but definitely not for having fun. And that's EXACTLY the kind of vibe I often get from death (alongside others such as power metal, folk metal, the utterly ridiculous glam metal of the 80s), that nagging impression of juvenile music tailored to please the masses. Sacrificing "depth" (for the lack of a better word) for increased accessibility, all in the name of good fun.

I apologize for the hard line stance, it's not my attention to pass forth judgements of value but to merely convey my purely subjective perspective on the matter. I don't listen to metal to have fun (I don't drink or use any sort of drugs listening to it, I don't participate to the ever popular moshes, in fact I strongly prefer listening to metal in solitude), but I am well aware that many other people do. It's just not my cup of tea, really.

Mind you, there are tons of "for fun" aspects in black metal too. Trve kvlt, necro sound, corpsepaint (oh brother, some reach venerable ages and still do that to appease the crowds), the appalling simplicity of lyrical themes (akin to the evergreen "eviscerate the christian!"), the various doodads people use at black metal concerts (and they get so repetitive after a short while, so lame), all the silliness so well illustrated by the awesome 101 rules of black (it still cracks me up, despite the fact people were joking in a similar fashion since the 90s). After culling the unnecessary fluff, there's still enough meat left in black. More than enough for me to prefer it by far over other metal genres.

But that's the very discussion I've wanted to promote, guys. To speak at (relative) length about the reasons you enjoy certain stuff, thus taking a break from simply passing forth and back suggestions about a certain band/album without offering much of a context.

[Limenaa]

@Lex Icon My wife somehow really dislikes that Malice album as well, I really have no idea why, and she's into all that slam stuff. To me Malice is amazing.

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What are you guys top 5 so far this year? For me, without thinking, probably:

1) Visigoth
2) Harakiri for the Sky
3) Panopticon
4) Drudkh
5) Gatekeeper

No doubt forgetting stuff though.

Something likes this, I think. I've probably forgot some too.

1) Tomb Mold
2) Spectral Wound
3) Panphage
4) Wytch Hazel
5) Taphos

Really love the new Sepulcher and Infernal Coil albums aswell, but I would have to give them some more plays before I would consider adding them to my list.

[Cairhiin]

Something likes this, I think. I've probably forgot some too.

1) Tomb Mold
2) Spectral Wound
3) Panphage
4) Wytch Hazel
5) Taphos

Really love the new Sepulcher and Infernal Coil albums aswell, but I would have to give them some more plays before I would consider adding them to my list.

That Tomb Mold album is great. Will probably make it to my final AOTY list as well.

[tlitd]

You seem to have invested a lot of thought into this. Even if I said that I'm not listening to metal for fun, I still can't stop myself from enjoying it, which is basically what it means to have fun for me. What kind of enjoyment you're experiencing while consuming media doesn't really matter, if you ask me, I consider it all to be fun. Like people that enjoy being scared watching a horror movie. They are having fun.

Even with a lot of metal that is not written to appeal to a wide audience or to be particularly elating, I still catch myself simply having a lot of fun.

The new Bosse de Nage I've been campaigning for so much in here is a really good example of what I mean. It's not music that is written to be fun or to appeal to the average listener. It's rough and demanding but the band's playing is not only forceful it's also thoroughly passionate and technical. More than that, the music possess transcendental qualities that my vocalubary cannot capture and it's those qualities that send a shiver down my spine and make my eyes glisten with joy whenever I listen to this album.

Many bands seem to think that they have to compromise on their songwriting to deliver a well-rounded song, but Bosse de Nage merely aimed to deliver their message in a more concise manner on this album and it's better for it. I tend to experience most of my emotions quite strongly so I highly value fierce and energetic music and uncompromising bands that go all out on their albums because music of that kind is what is most cathartic for me.
[snip]Link to Down Here[/snip]

And I'm enjoying your insightful retort a lot, therefore I must be having a lot of fun too! The lighthearted wink aside, thank you for the awesome feedback. I understand your perspective (and fully accept it, be sure of that), although mine deviates from it as you have undoubtedly guessed already. I'm not listening to metal in explicit pursuit of metaphorical "happy places", I don't often find myself cracking a smile or laugh listening to metal, I don't enjoy metal artistry which emphasizes giggly/upbeat music (power metal being the quintessential example); therefore, to my mind, I'm not having fun listening to metal. If you will forgive me these descriptors, my experience with metal is both sober and sobering. In about all the ways that you can think of. And that's completely fine, I do get my fun elsewhere! In the end, we shouldn't forget that metal is but a subset of life for any and all metalheads. Important, relevant, but still a localized subset within a broader canvas.

Allow me to present two cases, they will hopefully exemplify my understanding of "culling out the fluff" from metal. First case: DMDS (live, 2015) versus ITIOT (live, 2014). Both bands are titans of the black genre; both albums which originally feature the aforementioned songs are kvlt classics in the universe of black; I enjoy listening to both songs, for different reasons and in different ways (to be fair, I have always preferred Emperor over Mayhem, both back in the 90s and nowadays). Just compare (analytically, unemotionally) the delivery of the package, one of them tries way too hard to impress the audience (in the same juvenile fashion a clown would attempt at a party for kids) whereas the other simply focuses on the music itself. It is most likely that I will unintentionally rustle a few jimmies here and there, and for that I apologize. But to me the "for fun" approach of Mayhem is hard to take seriously, it actively obscures and distracts me away from their musical craftsmanship.

The second case: the later works of both Ihsahn and Xasthur, eloquent showcases of devoting oneself to music in its most unadulterated form rather than "blindly" following norms and patterns. Yes, of course that they don't create black metal anymore. So what? It is still music, and hauntingly beautiful at that. In this particular case, the fluff they've left behind them is the overarching black itself. And I'm genuinely grateful for that, songs such as Pressure or Clarity Within Your Confusion are... transcendental in ways which my vocabulary cannot encompass, just as you've noted yourself listening to the works of Bosse de Nage. And it is indeed a most sobering thought to realize that the very reason for which Scott is able to extrude such music out of him is the lack of emotional balance that he had to cope with throughout his entire life. At this point I ask you, is it even conceivable to be "having fun" listening to his music?

I'm sorry for defending what may seem to be an unhinged/bizarre perspective, namely that of culling out the fun from metal, I'm merely broadcasting my path and beliefs. Sharing myself, at the risk of sounding like the village idiot.

[Duilliath]

Imperial Triumphant does nothing for me. To me it's just another band that loves their Gorguts / Portal / Deathspell Omega, who attempt to add something new (at least! I'll grant them that), but forget that amid the chaos there should be memorable songs as well. If this were a rookie band, I've have hope for them developing into something more by next album, but they have been around for a decade or more now.

[mybackhurts]

[Duilliath]

[Cairhiin]

Somehow totally missed this release. As downside it's all one song, which I am not a fan of. Apart from that it's decent. Needs some more listening to. I really liked North.

- - - Updated - - -

--snip--

Added to my to listen to playlist on spotify, thanks!

[Duilliath]

[Gib Lover]

The harsh vocalist and guitarist of Khemmis has a project with Abigail Williams' old vocalist here https://gileadmedia.bandcamp.com/album/glacial-tomb
Pretty good death metal with some blackened and sludge moments.

[tlitd]

This is another curiosity I'd like to discuss with fellow metalheads, obviously given a baseline level of interest to begin with. How do you feel about metal songs going viral on Youtube, brothers and sisters?

Case in point: Burzum, as I have extensive experience to both the overarching genre and the artist himself (please feel free to discuss one of your favorite bands/artists instead, regardless of the specific metal genre). Let's just count the rough number of views each of his "iconic" songs got over the years, following only three guidelines: 1. counting only the version of a given song with the most views; 2. disregarding any and all remakes of a song, thus working only with the old-school material; 3. disregarding any actual video of a given song (lyrics videos are alright, fan-made unofficial videos are not). Shall we? Burzum: Feeble... 43K; Ea... 230K; Spell... 450K; A Lost... 230K. Det som engang var: Key... 174K; En ring... 288K; Lost Wisdom 1.09M; Snu... 155K. Hvis lyset tar oss: Det som... 1.22M; Hvis... 215K; Inn i slottet... 43K. Filosofem: Jesu... 1.37M; Beholding... 151K; Decrepitude II 45K. A grand total of about 5.7M views, the negligible rounding errors aside. Better put, 5.7M views scattered over 14 distinct tracks.

...and then, of course, der Elefant im Porzellanladen. Filosofem's Burzum/Dunkelheit, which clocks in at an astonishing 9.4M views by itself! There's no need for armchair statistics here, given the availability of a crude gauge of the most basic level of interest/popularity. Burzum's so-called fans are clearly constructing an otherwise incredibly ignorant case of this particular artist being an "one song wonder" (for added spice, that particular wonder isn't even DSEGV, the most fitting candidate for his magnum opus). If there's a way to introduce newer listeners to the musical universe of a band/artist, starting with the preposterous pretense of one song wonders must surely be a dismally poor option. But here we are still, in the golden age of social media and viral content.

How do you approach cases of such blatant bias (circle-jerking, trve kvlt style) when it comes to one of your favorite bands/artists? Do you deem it to be a good thing? A bad thing? Feeling ambiguous to it? Mostly indifferent? Do you think it's even possible for a single track to be held representative for the lifetime works of a given band/artist?

[Gib Lover]

It's an interesting question. I think in almost any case it's dishonest and dismissive of a band's work to summarize them in a single song or for it to represent the entire body of their work, but there are definitely songs that are THE song for that band. Case in point, Night's Blood by Dissection. They have 2 all time classic albums and even chunks of Reinkhaos are fine, but Night's Blood is THE Dissection song. It's sitting at 1mil right now on Youtube whereas Soulreaper is probably their second most popular track and it only has 90k, unless a more popular video was recently deleted.

I know personally if I get into a band off of a single song, that song will hold a special place for me even if I like other tracks more. Spell of Destruction was my first Burzum and is still my favorite song by the project, even if I think there is better material of Varg's. Similar with Bathory, my favorite Bathory track was the first one I ever heard Woman of Dark Desires. My favorite Bathory album is Hammerheart and i love all of that material more, but my first Bathory track is still my favorite because it's what I associate with the band.

If a band I really like suddenly goes viral I'm okay with it as long as new bandwagon fans don't start to rep the band extremely hard or presume to know more/be more passionate than longtime fans. When I start to get really into a band I make sure I listen to the full body of their work and read up on anything I should probably know about them and their history before I give my opinion in a written setting. Most recently I've gotten extremely into the French melodic black scene with bands like Belenos, Suhnopfer, Aorlhac and Darkenhold so I tried to consume as much of that as possible before giving my thoughts so I don't come off as a bandwagoner or poser.

Not sure if I actually answered your question or just stream of conciousness'd there for a bit.

[Duilliath]

How do you feel about metal songs going How do you approach cases of such blatant bias (circle-jerking, trve kvlt style) when it comes to one of your favorite bands/artists? Do you deem it to be a good thing? A bad thing? Feeling ambiguous to it? Mostly indifferent? Do you think it's even possible for a single track to be held representative for the lifetime works of a given band/artist?

I don't. As in, I don't feel about it. I couldn't possibly care less. I question why anyone who is into metal would ever care what other people think about it - their opinions are utterly irrelevant.

[tlitd]

Not sure if I actually answered your question or just stream of conciousness'd there for a bit.

I wasn't looking for answers in the sense of guidance, but for other perspectives instead. And you've generously shared yours with me, thank you.

I question why anyone who is into metal would ever care what other people think about it - their opinions are utterly irrelevant.

Those opinions have ripples, consequences and effects. Ignoring them is a choice you're entitled to, but it doesn't render them irrelevant whatsoever.

Allow me just one example where those "opinions" shape paths, newer listeners. Perhaps one of your friends, perhaps an acquaintance on any forum/community that you are a member of; someone's request for assistance: "I haven't listened to [insert band/artist here] before, how/with what should I start to assess if it's something I should commit to?" At this point, let's suppose for the sake of the argument that there are five full albums released by that band/artist, over a period of twenty years. Do you reply suggesting a single song? One of those five albums instead? A selection of tracks spanning the entirety of their works? I'd argue that if you reply with anything else but a (preferably all-encompassing) selection, you're doing that person a disservice.

Bands or projects will always have standout tracks but I don't feel like anyone really tries to make a band all about their most successful songs. Generally, I would say people that enjoy metal that is even just one level below mainstream know better than to do that.

Oh wow, you've just made me smile. No, not a sarcastic grin; a genuine smile of surprise.

It happens more often than you think (and I'm tempted to say "all the time", but it sounds too categorical), and that's because of... biology. Because that's how our minds operate, because of our propensity for patterns. Look up on Wikipedia for the most basic introduction to it, without exaggeration it has been one of the most studied topics for the last few decades. Overriding that is arguably unnatural, as it's a trained skill. It follows henceforth that differentiating between a single song (as pattern) and the lifetime works of a given band/artist is something which doesn't just happen out of the blue. It only happens if people really do want it to happen, and I'd refer you to Gib Lover's reply above. It's a conscious effort that some people are unwilling to make. Some don't even know how. Alas, some are unaware that it's needed to begin with.

[Duilliath]

Metal has never cared about being mainstream. If anything, it's by nature the very opposite of mainstream. Why, then, should I even care about the mainstream? It's a fad they'll latch on to and as soon as something else pops up, it'll be gone again. I used the word irrelevant for a reason: mainstream has no relevance whatsoever. It's not going to make a band millions overnight and if a band does get some additional sales, it'll mostly likely not even a band I'm interested in to begin with. I am not sure why you insist people that are completely irrelevant to me should have any impact on what I enjoy or do not enjoy.

[Cairhiin]

I really couldn't care less how many YouTube views a certain song has. There's other things to keep me awake at night.

[Cairhiin]

Like that new Cantique Lepreux song I posted. Check it out.

Gonna check it right now! Finally got some time today.

I enjoyed that. Can't wait for the full album as I remember really liking their previous one.

[Cairhiin]

I actually pre-ordered one of their new shirt designs off of Eisenwald on a whim while listening to the track. I'm definitely looking forward to the new album.

I seem to remember I liked the Sorcier des Glaces better last time. This time I think it'll be the other way around. That track was definitely great. I somehow really liked the sound of the drums.