Uldir is one of the worst raids that this game has seen so far.

[Seramore]

I'm having fun in Uldir, and I think mechanically some of the fights are very interesting. Despite how easy it is, MOTHER is probably one of the most mechanically interesting fights in the game for me (although I think I would have preferred it if they kept in the Hallion laser in at least Mythic). As annoying as phase one is on G'huun, it's definitely an interesting fight as well.

With that being said, as contradictory as it may sound, Uldir is also one of the worst raids that this game has ever seen.

Instead of the raid getting better as it progresses, it gets worse with the better bosses being near the start of the tier instead of near the end of the tier. Taloc is your traditional entry raid fight, MOTHER, as I said, is mechanically a pretty interesting fight despite the easiness of it. Zek'voz wasn't too difficult but was one of the more mechanic heavy fights of the raid. Vectis was honestly probably one of my favorite fights, I thought the debuff mechanic made the fight kind of fun.

This is where the raid starts to slope: Fetid is an annoying fight and begins to introduce what I like to call "artificial" difficulty that's present in the raid. You're punished for having an unideal raid comp and the fight drastically gets more annoying and hard with an added melee. The idea of positioning being everything is an interesting mechanic to learn on a fight, but at the same time, the fight artificially becomes more difficult when you add more melee.

Zul is a horrible fight and also has another weakness of Uldir: class stacking. Rogues completely trivialize the fight and make what would be an otherwise semi-interesting fight into a snoozefest DPS race.

Mythrax re-introduces the artificial difficulty: the more melee you have, the harder and more annoying the fight gets. A melee heavy comp makes the orb spawns hard to deal with, especially when you're swapping to the add. Phase two is completely trivialized by the stacking and warlock gate strat.

I haven't done G'huun, so I will mostly stay quiet about this fight, at least on Mythic. With that being said, from everything I've heard from people who have killed it and seen from footage of guilds killing it, G'huun just sucks. I said the fight is interesting, but the fight is also complete garbage. Phase one is completely boring, and is only interesting if you're an Orb runner. Phase two you can damage the boss, but again, is pretty boring (and quite honestly irrelevant) unless you're an Orb runner, again - outside of the burn phase where the boss is stunned and minimal mechanics are going out. Phase three is the only overall interesting phase of the fight, which is mostly in part due to the growth mechanic.

In short, Uldir is hot garbage and a good amount of difficulty is somewhat artificial depending on your raid composition. I'd argue it's worse than ToS; ToS had heavy emphasis on soaking, but there were also a lot more mechanics going one besides soaking. Uldir isn't very mechanically heavy outside of being completely spread, and the difficulty of the raid is spiked when you have unideal comps, specifically melee heavy comps. That, in combination with the emphasis on class stacking two different classes (Rogues for Zul, Warlocks for G'huun (although the hotfix did make it so you don't need 4 warlocks anymore) - in comparison to just wanting Rogues in ToS), makes Uldir worse than ToS in my opinion.

[rogoth]

i agree with the premise, but there's a few issues i have with your overall analysis in that i think the added difficulty in terms of raid comp/number tuning was added because blizz went overboard and expected a legion 2.0 when we went into EN with vastly inflated power levels making most if not all the fights trivial in terms of dps requirements.

[TheRogue]

Uldir is just an anti melee raid. Four bosses (Fetid,Zek,Mythrax.G'huun) with medium to large range plague style spread mechanics is too many and you can really tell that separate teams worked on these bosses in isolation.

A classic Blizzard over correction from Legions stack/soak mechanic fetish.

[HydrazineLive]

I think it was a quirky raid that didn't feel quite polished, but worst raid this game has seen so far? Damn that's a high bar

[Deleted]

Please stop throwing the "artificial difficulty" meme around, it doesn't have any merit on imageboards and it sure as hell has none when talking about Uldir - adding more melee when there are melee punishing mechanics isn't "artificial" difficulty any more than any other mechanic. Bosses end up being easier with certain compositions.

Taloc is easier with less melee due to the mythic mechanics.
Mother is SO easy with a shaman that we took a 320 alt to it on Wednesday when our resto shaman was sick.
Zek'voz is significantly easier with some sort of a grip / frost mage.
Vectis is significantly easier with less melee.
Fetid is significantly easier with less melee and also has some degree of class requirements with the blobs, you aint going to burst them down with afflocks.

Zul is the only fight that's disappointingly broken in Uldir since you can SEE what Blizzard were hoping for, a lengthy fight about add control and debuff management.

Everything else is just a case of melee being suboptimal when there are mechanics that melee lose output to deal with or are no help in dealing with. This isn't new, it's as old as the game more or less.

If you seriously think THIS is the worst raiding has been and you think it's because melee are crap on a few bosses then you can't have been raiding long.

[Jastall]

The only bad thing about this raid is that Fetid is a very meh boss and how Mythic in particular is too melee unfriendly due to overuse of spreading mechanics.

Apart from these specific issues it's a solid raid, the best entry one we got in ages IMO. And I say that as a melee player. It's not like cutting edge raids being melee unfriendly haven't been the norm across the entirety of this game's history anyway, and no boss in Uldir is as awful as Coven was at least.

Oh and Zul being a total cheese fest is a failure on Blizzard's end as well, but again that's only on Mythic.

[Isilarya]

I dislike how Mythrax becomes exponentially easier with more people. We wiped 3 hours for like 3 different sessions with our usually 12-14 people, we pugged up to 21 and 2 shot it because the diverse targeting for the orbs and the ability to burn the adds faster because its a static number of adds regardless of raid size.

[Onikaroshi]

I dislike how Mythrax becomes exponentially easier with more people. We wiped 3 hours for like 3 different sessions with our usually 12-14 people, we pugged up to 21 and 2 shot it because the diverse targeting for the orbs and the ability to burn the adds faster because its a static number of adds regardless of raid size.

Blizzard has this problem ever since flex.... they can't scale it down at all, it's like they forget to even bother like first week of vectis.

[Nikkaszal]

A simple fix for Zul to have the fight done "properly" would be adding an additional element onto the phase change which dispels all CC on any living adds and make them CC immune for the rest of the fight

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard has this problem ever since flex.... they can't scale it down at all, it's like they forget to even bother like first week of vectis.

Vectis WAS fixed to reduce its difficulty for smaller groups... quite elegantly as well.

[Xeranath]

I only have to think of one expansion ago to see a worse raid than Uldir in the Emerald Nightmare.

Maybe it's not a perfect raid, but your title seems quite hyperbolic.

[Onikaroshi]

A simple fix for Zul to have the fight done "properly" would be adding an additional element onto the phase change which dispels all CC on any living adds and make them CC immune for the rest of the fight

- - - Updated - - -



Vectis WAS fixed to reduce its difficulty for smaller groups... quite elegantly as well.

But it's like they never thought "hmm maybe the exact same ability procing the exact same amount in 30 man vs 10 man is a bad idea", Mythrax and g'huun are other ones that lend far too well to larger group sizes.

[Nathasil]

My main problem with this raid is that you need to quest Horde to know what is is about.....and even if you do, it still feels absolutely pointless to the Alliance.

Why on earth would you attack a creature that as done absolutely NOTHING to you so far which is in a fight with the faction that is busy commiting genocide against you? It's just another example why this expansion's story is so fucked up. If you have 2 factions in your game and want to make an expansion that totally zooms in on this....why is it SO hard to motivate a raid for both of them....?

[Ghazan Julio]

Please stop throwing the "artificial difficulty" meme around, it doesn't have any merit on imageboards and it sure as hell has none when talking about Uldir - adding more melee when there are melee punishing mechanics isn't "artificial" difficulty any more than any other mechanic. Bosses end up being easier with certain compositions.

Taloc is easier with less melee due to the mythic mechanics.
Mother is SO easy with a shaman that we took a 320 alt to it on Wednesday when our resto shaman was sick.
Zek'voz is significantly easier with some sort of a grip / frost mage.
Vectis is significantly easier with less melee.
Fetid is significantly easier with less melee and also has some degree of class requirements with the blobs, you aint going to burst them down with afflocks.

Zul is the only fight that's disappointingly broken in Uldir since you can SEE what Blizzard were hoping for, a lengthy fight about add control and debuff management.

Everything else is just a case of melee being suboptimal when there are mechanics that melee lose output to deal with or are no help in dealing with. This isn't new, it's as old as the game more or less.

If you seriously think THIS is the worst raiding has been and you think it's because melee are crap on a few bosses then you can't have been raiding long.

Well thanks for proving the OP right. You're an elitist SJW.

[Uselessrouge]

Blizzard has this problem ever since flex.... they can't scale it down at all, it's like they forget to even bother like first week of vectis.

why do you think they took out 10m mythic raiding?

cause they suck at balancing lol , broke most small raiding guilds.

i raid 20m now but i dont enjoy it , i prefere raiding with a smaller group even if its less forgiving but if we wipe its with friends and we still have fun

[Onikaroshi]

why do you think they took out 10m mythic raiding?

cause they suck at balancing lol , broke most small raiding guilds.

i raid 20m now but i dont enjoy it , i prefere raiding with a smaller group even if its less forgiving but if we wipe its with friends and we still have fun

Same, tighter knit 10 man groups were always my way of doing it, but you just can't anymore, some bosses are 10x harder.

[cerebro]

I'm having fun in Uldir, and I think mechanically some of the fights are very interesting. Despite how easy it is, MOTHER is probably one of the most mechanically interesting fights in the game for me (although I think I would have preferred it if they kept in the Hallion laser in at least Mythic). As annoying as phase one is on G'huun, it's definitely an interesting fight as well.

With that being said, as contradictory as it may sound, Uldir is also one of the worst raids that this game has ever seen.

Instead of the raid getting better as it progresses, it gets worse with the better bosses being near the start of the tier instead of near the end of the tier. Taloc is your traditional entry raid fight, MOTHER, as I said, is mechanically a pretty interesting fight despite the easiness of it. Zek'voz wasn't too difficult but was one of the more mechanic heavy fights of the raid. Vectis was honestly probably one of my favorite fights, I thought the debuff mechanic made the fight kind of fun.

This is where the raid starts to slope: Fetid is an annoying fight and begins to introduce what I like to call "artificial" difficulty that's present in the raid. You're punished for having an unideal raid comp and the fight drastically gets more annoying and hard with an added melee. The idea of positioning being everything is an interesting mechanic to learn on a fight, but at the same time, the fight artificially becomes more difficult when you add more melee.

Zul is a horrible fight and also has another weakness of Uldir: class stacking. Rogues completely trivialize the fight and make what would be an otherwise semi-interesting fight into a snoozefest DPS race.

Mythrax re-introduces the artificial difficulty: the more melee you have, the harder and more annoying the fight gets. A melee heavy comp makes the orb spawns hard to deal with, especially when you're swapping to the add. Phase two is completely trivialized by the stacking and warlock gate strat.

I haven't done G'huun, so I will mostly stay quiet about this fight, at least on Mythic. With that being said, from everything I've heard from people who have killed it and seen from footage of guilds killing it, G'huun just sucks. I said the fight is interesting, but the fight is also complete garbage. Phase one is completely boring, and is only interesting if you're an Orb runner. Phase two you can damage the boss, but again, is pretty boring (and quite honestly irrelevant) unless you're an Orb runner, again - outside of the burn phase where the boss is stunned and minimal mechanics are going out. Phase three is the only overall interesting phase of the fight, which is mostly in part due to the growth mechanic.

In short, Uldir is hot garbage and a good amount of difficulty is somewhat artificial depending on your raid composition. I'd argue it's worse than ToS; ToS had heavy emphasis on soaking, but there were also a lot more mechanics going one besides soaking. Uldir isn't very mechanically heavy outside of being completely spread, and the difficulty of the raid is spiked when you have unideal comps, specifically melee heavy comps. That, in combination with the emphasis on class stacking two different classes (Rogues for Zul, Warlocks for G'huun (although the hotfix did make it so you don't need 4 warlocks anymore) - in comparison to just wanting Rogues in ToS), makes Uldir worse than ToS in my opinion.

I disagree with you, as the first raid tier I think this is among one of the best raids we have had. I would only really put Kara and Naxx above it. While yes there is a nuisance for having too many melee, I think the point is not everyone and their mother is running around with Aotc. Even guilds with 4/10 mythic have trouble to clear Ghuun 1 shot.

I think that for being the very first tier, it did a great job of balancing having killable bosses by random pugs and pug killing bosses.

I feel like your thread is complaining about something that you yourself explained how to fix. It's like complaining that running 3 warriors in 3v3 arenas isn't viable. Any content in this game, has a comp that is going to be more viable above all else and punishes you for trying to run a non optimal set up.

[Isilarya]

why do you think they took out 10m mythic raiding?

cause they suck at balancing lol , broke most small raiding guilds.

i raid 20m now but i dont enjoy it , i prefere raiding with a smaller group even if its less forgiving but if we wipe its with friends and we still have fun

Ya but when you wipe multiple weeks over and you KNOW its because you dont have enough not because you are executing poorly it strains the atmosphere. We were hitting the end of raid after Mythrax wiping for hours and we were all just silent out of rage. Pugging shouldnt be our answer to downing bosses just because we dont have a large enough core atm.

[Th3Scourge]

Ehhhh I despised EN. Everything was fucking bright red. Uldir has some nice themes within it. Love the use of the Yogg Saron music at MOTHER, and it's visually quite nice.

[cerebro]

Ya but when you wipe multiple weeks over and you KNOW its because you dont have enough not because you are executing poorly it strains the atmosphere. We were hitting the end of raid after Mythrax wiping for hours and we were all just silent out of rage. Pugging shouldnt be our answer to downing bosses just because we dont have a large enough core atm.

The raid isn't intended for that amount of people. RBGS is not viable with 9 people. Mythic+ is not viable with 4 people. Mythic raiding isn't viable with 18 people. For those groups that want to experience the fights together that refuse to recruit more people have LFR available. Complaining about this is an oxymoron in itself.

[Isilarya]

The raid isn't intended for that amount of people. RBGS is not viable with 9 people. Mythic+ is not viable with 4 people. Mythic raiding isn't viable with 18 people. For those groups that want to experience the fights together that refuse to recruit more people have LFR available. Complaining about this is an oxymoron in itself.

I said nothing about Mythic.