[Ret] Remove Flash of Light - add healing effects to offensive abilities?

[Sigxy]

Yo gang!

I don't wanna be the kind of guy who wants to enhance the pruning we've faced, but let's face it:

Nobody wants to bring a Retribution paladin because they can do "Decent damage and stop doing damage to do healing" - especially not in random M+ groups! Raiding, sure, they can still be brought in but they're not very high on the priority list. People want to pick a class for their damage and their useful buffs (Reason you'd rather pick a warrior who can buff attack power and do a lot of damage. Ret's got 2 buffs that are absolutely trash). And even if I am specced for WoG, it's not really going to convince anyone.

And so, I actually wanna go to the idea of WotLK: Our BIG damage button, Divine Storm, healed allies for a % of the damage dealt. (I know we had healing spells back then too but that's beside the point!) Though add it to more abilities. Flash of Light is removed, but I guess we can keep Lay on Hands because it has such a huge cooldown. Instead, the healing we do relies on our damage.

Each ability's healing effect is for max 5 people (Picking the most injured targets, 20-30 yards as max).
TV, BoJ and CS would heal for 20% of the damage dealt.
DS, either option A: 5% and unlimited (5% because otherwise it's too useful in big pulls.) Or B: 20% too, but limited to the top 3 hits on that AoE.

The healing CANNOT be more than 5% of the ally's max health - in case you'd get a buff to increase the damage to an insane level.

This way if we want to keep ourselves alive - and our allies - we NEED to be on the offense. To me, -THAT- holds closer to our spec's name: Retribution. Not stop your assault to throw heals at people.

Downside of this, of course, is that we can't stay alive just as easily - but that should justify our damage to be buffed up.

[Jiai]

Are you saying that being able to heal passively while DPSing should be a good reason for Blizzard to INCREASE the DPS ?

[tuesday the paladin]

I'd rather the tier 90 talents be made better, if healing is suppose to be a utility that we're suppose to have they should make it actually be worthwile. Make SH have a 25% chance to generate 1 HP per stack when used to heal a friendly player, remove WoG HP cost, change JV to be a direct replacement to TV and reduce the healing a bit but cause it to be mimicked on targets with your blessings. Frequent single target burst healing and extra HP for healing VS sustained on self + blessed targets VS strong mediumish CD group burst heal filler.

[Lothaeryn]

I'd rather the tier 90 talents be made better, if healing is suppose to be a utility that we're suppose to have they should make it actually be worthwile. Make SH have a 25% chance to generate 1 HP per stack when used to heal a friendly player, remove WoG HP cost, change JV to be a direct replacement to TV and reduce the healing a bit but cause it to be mimicked on targets with your blessings. Frequent single target burst healing and extra HP for healing VS sustained on self + blessed targets VS strong mediumish CD group burst heal filler.

Bolded part is the most critical change i can think of that would make that tier more viable for passive healing. WoG is great for strong AoE heal at the cost of HP, and Selfless healer is nice for free single heals similar to wrath's design, but it needs a buff for HP consumption requirement to be reworked so it takes less stacks for that free heal.

JV is a dead talent this expansion and sadly too nerfed in its current state to even be considered viable. With the Damage mechanic nerfed and DP being weaker, it has no place in the current setup. If it was reworked to be an outright replacement of TV with minor healing, it would be a viable alternative for the paladin to passively heal as they fight in combat, much akin to how Death Strike works for DK's.

[axxey]

Word of glory is the strongest offheal in m+, be not shittier. If i saw a paladin not speced WoG in m+ I'd prob kick him from my group also.

[Oncereborn]

Yeah I think having to stop to heal (because of global cd) and saving charges to get it to be instant feels a bit clunky. Would love to have its function moved to other dps abilities and made to be passive.

[Atrea]

I am against any design change whose philosophy is basically, "it will be better for PUGs."

Blizzard doesn't care which random thing people are choosing to be stupid about this week in group finder.
Balances are made with organized participation - i.e. guilds, or organized teams (RBGs, Arena, etc.) - in mind, not with "make it easy for everyone to do anything with anyone else."

Word of glory is the strongest offheal in m+, be not shittier. If i saw a paladin not speced WoG in m+ I'd prob kick him from my group also.

And this. Like seriously; WoG is fucking ridiculous right now, if you aren't using it right it's because you suck.

[Deleted]

Yo gang!

I don't wanna be the kind of guy who wants to enhance the pruning we've faced, but let's face it:

Nobody wants to bring a Retribution paladin because they can do "Decent damage and stop doing damage to do healing" - especially not in random M+ groups! Raiding, sure, they can still be brought in but they're not very high on the priority list. People want to pick a class for their damage and their useful buffs (Reason you'd rather pick a warrior who can buff attack power and do a lot of damage. Ret's got 2 buffs that are absolutely trash).

And so, I actually wanna go to the idea of WotLK: Our BIG damage button, Divine Storm, healed allies for a % of the damage dealt. (I know we had healing spells back then too but that's beside the point!) Though add it to more abilities. Flash of Light is removed, but I guess we can keep Lay on Hands because it has such a huge cooldown. Instead, the healing we do relies on our damage.

Each ability's healing effect is for max 5 people (Picking the most injured targets, 20-30 yards as max).
TV, BoJ and CS would heal for 20% of the damage dealt.
DS, either option A: 5% and unlimited (5% because otherwise it's too useful in big pulls.) Or B: 20% too, but limited to the top 3 hits on that AoE.

The healing CANNOT be more than 5% of the ally's max health - in case you'd get a buff to increase the damage to an insane level.

This way if we want to keep ourselves alive - and our allies - we NEED to be on the offense. To me, -THAT- holds closer to our spec's name: Retribution. Not stop your assault to throw heals at people.

Downside of this, of course, is that we can't stay alive just as easily - but that should justify our damage to be buffed up.

Quite possibly the worst idea I’ve ever seen on here.

[Sigxy]

I see that people are bringing up WoG as the way to justify the healing... but the title should've made it more obvious I'm talking about Flash of Light. The fact that WoG is the -only- talent that is viable (Which is why I use it as well), means that that Selfless Healer (which is supposed to improve Flash of Light) can't even save it.

People should be allowed to have options on each talent row - and making WoG the only useful thing takes that away. Flash of Light simply can't justify our 'hybrid' status at this point.

[axxey]

I'll quote you

Nobody wants to bring a Retribution paladin because they can do "Decent damage and stop doing damage to do healing"

Nobody wants to bring a paladin that's too stupid to spec an incredibly rediculously overpowered talent that hasn't yet been nerfed. Giving up one 3 holy power is not stopping damage to do healing.

[Sigxy]

I'll quote you


Nobody wants to bring a paladin that's too stupid to spec an incredibly rediculously overpowered talent that hasn't yet been nerfed. Giving up one 3 holy power is not stopping damage to do healing.

If you don't include the fact it costs Holy Power, then yeah. As I said though: I do use WoG, and once again this is an argument that doesn't provide a defense to keep Flash of Light as it is. Nobody specs for Selfless Healer anyway.

At the moment people just go "Dude, you can use WoG, it's fine." Not really a good point to defend FoL, is it!

[Lollis]

And now think about what it would be like in PvP.

Not only can you LoH, Shield of Vengeance, and on cooldown use WoG or JV, but while you wait for forbearance to drop to use Bubble you can get healing by doing damage using practically every other ability that you have.

Just how unkillable do you need to be?

[PaladinBash]

Making Justicar's Vengeance just be normal TV except it heals you a bit works fine. It'd keep it a basic soloing talent if nothing else I guess.

[Grogplus]

I think WoG is amazing but I do agree with OP on that this whole thing with hybrid class offhealer class fantasy isn't particularly well exist atm. My idea was to make our heals buff our upcoming dmg in the way where it's barely worth doing it in terms of dps (for the ppl who want nothing to do with it) but if you want to you could throw offheals left and right and not really loose any dps

[Craaazyyy]

yeah.. nah

fuck passive healing

you dont need to be removing abilities that are in the game since forever and were never a problem in any way

they need to completely rework classes, not just remove this and that.. preferably unprune more

not fucking prune more

[Rhade1337]

Why are people seem so confuse? OP was talking about Flash of Light not WoG, learn to read ppl. Also selfless healer is also good for ppl who don't want to spend hp to cast WoG and it's also viable in m+, you just need to learn to use it lol.

[axxey]

No, just no, please don't remotely spread any encouragement to not use the rediculously strong WoG utility and pretend anything else is viable. Doing nothing is also viable and will be equally welcome in a group as specing selfless or justicars.

[Volitar]

No. game needs less retard passive healing on every class. It should be a choice to heal and it should have some opportunity cost.

[Rhade1337]

No, just no, please don't remotely spread any encouragement to not use the rediculously strong WoG utility and pretend anything else is viable. Doing nothing is also viable and will be equally welcome in a group as specing selfless or justicars.

Link your logs

[Lawlhero]

Pretty sure Flash of Light is nice for soloing / helping out your healer when its absolutely necessary. O.O, I don't want doing solo content more annoying with out a castable heal. ty