Why titanforging is a bad thing, even for casual play [Opinion]

[Deleted]

MOP TF = Fine

Wod\Legion\BFA TF = Not Fine

[HuxNeva]

that is the top end of the bell curve i was talking about, those people are hardly impacted because titan forging for them is only 10 i-levels and/or a socket at most.
which is still impactful, just not as much as for the middle/lower end of that bell curve, where a titan forging can easily boost an item by 30 i-levels (2 raid difficulty leaps)

I wasn't talking about the top end, I stated that you can check the strong correlation between content done (LFR, N, HC, M) and the resulting item level. The variance distribution Blizzard designed around ensures that chances thaat someone from a 'lower' tier will never end up higher than someone from a higher tier are basically zero.

1 specific example would be First Mate's Spyglass. this trinket is only obtainable from a world quest and, depending on if it titan forges, is 1 of the most highly rated trinkets for a lot of melee DPS classes.

Do you realize how uncommon a +30 TF is? I went through the whole of legion running raids weekly and over a thousand M+ without ever seeing one.

Even so, as melee unless you are attacking highest content (M) you will still be wearing that Darkmoon trinket which is just a buy of the AH, and even for the spec for which spyglass is near the best (Assasination rogue) the difference between the base 340 version and the uber +30 TF is still less than 300 dps. That +30 TF spyglass trinket would still be very, very close to base ilvl 370 farmable M+ trinkets, and still be beaten by the base one from the Arathi loot piniata.

If anything, your example shows that even extreme TF doesn't realy matter much, even for the more casual content player as better, no need for w/tf, is available from AH and the warfronts loot piniata, while those that do medium to high content will on top of that be able to farm equivalent trinkets from M+, again even when it does not w/tf.

[Onikaroshi]

Isn't raidlogging a bad thing? I remember all the "omg blizz there's nothing to do but raidlog!!!!11" stuff in WoD. How is it a bad thing to always give even open world content a chance to be useful even for raiders? Like OP said in post #3 shouldn't be it be a good thing that an upgrade might be right around the corner even from content you wouldn't expect to still have anything good?

Raidlogging isn't great, but, in my opinion, never being "done" is worse. there's no break, you just have to go from one raid into the next, into the next.

[azka]

Titanforging and traits/talents are pretty much irrelevant for casuals. A casual could be 20ils higher than a 2/8M raider and still will underperform at anything. He won't have enchants, nor gems. He won't prepot, he won't even have a flask on him, he would have the wrong spec... he won't have any rotation, he would have the wrong stat weight and probably the worst spec because casual.

Now, in the other hand... TF for an average Mythic guild is good because it acts as a soft nerf and helps them to finish current content.

[Rusken]

I don't like Titanforging but I also do in some contexts. The idea of your raid drops being able to upgrade slightly is exciting, and it is a great feeling when you get one of those drops, however the fact that content multiple tiers lower than Raids can drop gear that vastly out-performs the Raid gear is a big problem.

As an Assassination Rogue my best trinkets are from World Quests that have to titanforge from their 320 base to 370 or higher, which has the same probability of happening as me getting hit by a Meteorite on the same day that I got struck by lightning twice and won the lottery.

I would really like to see Titanforging change to cap at 10 ilvls above whatever content drops it, so at least we don't feel the need to run LFR just because there is a chance of getting 395 TF loot. No raid difficulty should surpass the one above it for ilvl, LFR should cap at 350, Normal at 365, Heroic at 380, that gives you a nice little boost for receiving a TF piece but it would never replace your Heroic trinket for a LFR-Titanforged trinket that has a higher ilvl and would stop making some players feeling "forced" to farm low end content just for astronomically low odds of getting the right rolls.

[Oncereborn]

Titanforging is trash, get rid of it.

[Heathy]

the game is in the state its in because ppl are spoilt with infinite loot chances per week and feel compelled to grind for top tier titanforges until they keel over from mental fatigue instead of just enjoying playing the game.

I used to just enjoy raiding for the fun of downing bosses. that was it, loot was a bonus. it also meant that you'd eventually just progress upward, naturally over time. which is still true today, whatever you are running difficulty wise you are getting gear that will let you progress, you aren't not getting gear that won't let you keep making progress in the next tier. titan forge or no titanforge, if you are able to make progress, who the fuck cares really? is not being 100% max ilvl capped titanforge stopping you from making progress, no. so really why does it matter?

if the content was balanced around everyone NEEDING full max rolled titanforged loots to move forward, then it would be a problem, but that isn't the case. you can still move forward whether the loot you got is TF'd or not.

there are many many many many many loots i never got over all of the expansions, items that just didn't drop any of the times that the content was cleared, it didn't stop me from progressing or from being able to keep playing the game. i just accepted that 'hey i didn;t get that loot but i did go on to get another loot that was better anyway'.

so long as mythic + exists so will some sort of titanforging, the rewards are based on the difficulty so even if there was no world quest titanforge rolls, m+ loot would still scale with the key level you run. its ingrained into the loot system for m+ its how m+ rewards higher keys. so again if there was no world quest TF, ppl would still feel compelled to farm keys for high base ilvl loot.

[rohoz]

This is the reason the game is currently in the state it's in ^

Fanboys with insanely low expectations.

I expect to get a 370 item from a 10 key
you expect to get a 395.

one is logical and rational, one is delusional and entitled. Guess which.

[rrayy]

Issue with nowadays titanforging is that it devaluates harder content, meaning that there's a chance of heroic/normal/lfr difficulty giving better item level than mythic. That's just wrong and this should be completly removed from game. And don't tell me it's rare, because it's not rare to get this kind of titanforging.
I don't mind Titanforging per se, only thing I disagree is that it's not capped to the level so the ilvl of the dropped item won't go over the higher difficulty item's ilvl and to this day I can't understand why Blizzard is pushing this uncapped titanforging.

As a change for titanforging system, I would rather have +5/+10 Warforging and then bonus +5 ilvls upgrade with currency from raids/weekly m+ cache/rated pvp to reward commitment.

Getting onen piece that might be better than myhtic level gear in no way devalues harder content. A person who never does mythic may have one or two pieces that TF that high. You, the mythic raider, will have a full set. It is rare to get that kind of titanforging. I have looted a ton of gear and only one TF that high.

You are just spouting nonsense.

[Heathy]

Uhhh? I expect the game to not look like it was designed by monkeys.

I expect to be rewarded for the content I am doing. I don't expect to win the lottery and get a 395 from a +5 key. That would be insanely stupid wouldn't it?


OH WAIT THAT'S HOW THE GAME CURRENTLY IS.

and you don't think that was incredibly lucky at all?

and you don't think that its a good thing that you no longer have to worry about that gear slot till the next tier.

and you don't think that now you have that slot covered you can pass loot you don't need to your friends and spread gear around a bit?

why would anyone piss on a winning lottery ticket?

amazing gear in this game has been gained for far less effort than running a +5.

[Heathy]

not really, if you're talking about pvp, meh its always been an unbalanced shit show. that i've done my best to avoid.

if you're talking about pve, i'd be happy that everyone is contributing and if someone can contribute more because they won the lotto thats great, because afterall pve is a team effort and it doesn't really matter if one person is doing a bit more than someone else because in the end its the collective effort and overall cohesion that matters.

if the boss dies i really don't care who has the biggest dick. the boss died so the op was a success.

[rohoz]

I'm just waiting for homey to link his armory and his m5 395 gear.
All of this whining over a possibility is peak retarded, but again, it is mmo-c forums

[Heathy]

yeah i'd like to see that too,

its fine being competitive but there are so many factors that come into being the best that it isn't going to just come down to how many titanforges you got this tier. classes have varied wildly throughout expansions and individual tiers, some have been amazing at some fights and others terrible. regardless of gear.

i like this dark legacy comic.

https://www.darklegacycomics.com/558

being competitive is fine until ... yeah.

[rohoz]

I knew you wouldn't respond directly because your initial input didn't have a leg to stand on. Cheers.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm unsubscribed.

BfA is literal dogshit.

So in other words you have no idea what you're talking about, as usual?

also, you can link to your armory if your account is down. Unless, you know, that magic 395 doesn't exist.

[Teri]

Titanforging and multiple diffiulties do not mix.

Highest difficulty should drop the best gear by default, and the next one below should not overlap with it's itemlevel.

[munkeyinorbit]

OP has impulse issues and wants to punish the rest if us for his mental issues. What OP should do instead of having a whine about how he has no control over his inability to know when enough is enough, maybe he should see some sort of doctor and get help. Video game addiction is a real thing and can lead to suicide.

Get help man.

[rohoz]

Link yours first champion.

I don't have any 395s and I'm totally fine with that. Every piece of gear I have was EARNED.

I didn't pull a slot machine lever to get it.

- - - Updated - - -



This.

Progression.

You made the claims. I don't have any tfs either, and you don't see me throwing a hissy fit over the possibility of an upgrade.

Progression still happens. If you think a kid that only does +5 is gonna have 395 in every slot, you're even more dumb than I thought you were.

- - - Updated - - -

OP has impulse issues and wants to punish the rest if us for his mental issues. What OP should do instead of having a whine about how he has no control over his inability to know when enough is enough, maybe he should see some sort of doctor and get help. Video game addiction is a real thing and can lead to suicide.

Get help man.

Most of the kids on here who hate the game but can't get off the forum need to find help too, tbqh

[munkeyinorbit]

Link yours first champion.

I don't have any 395s and I'm totally fine with that. Every piece of gear I have was EARNED.

I didn't pull a slot machine lever to get it.

- - - Updated - - -



This.

Progression.

Lol. I thought we had finished with the "I earnt my gear. All u fucking scrubs didn't. I am better than you" posts. Thanks for winding back the clock buddy. It must be *difficult* farming that gold to buy the carries you *earnt*.

[rohoz]

Lol. I thought we had finished with the "I earnt my gear. All u fucking scrubs didn't. I am better than you" posts. Thanks for winding back the clock buddy. It must be *difficult* farming that gold to buy the carries you *earnt*.

best thing is that he suggests that drops in this game aren't rng. literally every thing in this game is about a diceroll.

[arkanon]

I don't get it why titanforging is bad. You get the gear you are working for (i.e. do +10, you get a guaranteed 370 ilvl loot). A tf proc is just a bonus.

This is how blizzard sell it to the masses, and the masses buy this rubbish. Its just not true at all. Removal of war-forging completely would not hurt ANYONE, and would encourage people to progress as a player, complete harder content, and make for a healthier game in general. Currently, people are directly rewarded for completing the lowest tiers of content as frequently as possible.

completed a random 5man dungeon on normal? here, have a 370. Oh, you just spent hours working with your casual guild to down a boss in normal Uldir? here, have a 355. This is not hard to understand - humans like feeling gratification and reward - getting something for nothing is not rewarding. This is some 101 shit, and blizzard know all about it, but are not listening.

The ONLY argument for warforging is allowing players with mythic on farm to continue raiding. But, and i am sorry to be the one to say this, but the only mythic raiders i know who 'farm' mythic raids are the ones selling carries.
"but i have killed the 3rd boss 4 times and we have to kill it every week to get to the 6th boss we are progging on and i keep getting gloves!" ok so stop going fresh just extend.......
"but my other raiders still need loot so we have to!" ok , welcome to any team/group activity ever.

"But we have been farming 8/8 normal for weeks now" - well, stop. you should be doing heroic, not normal. this one is a direct symptom of war-forging.

Blizzard should stop giving incentives for farming content, and start encouraging people to step up the difficulties. If people want to just endlessly farm easy content, thats entirely up to them, but there is no logical reason they should be rewarded for it.