Preach Gaming - Punish Them! - Lack of Failure Doesn't Prepare For Mythic+

[Dundebuns]

Gamers have the ability to improve and get better. However, very few gamers actually do this. The majority want instant gratification and do not game to improve themselves. It's why we have the difficulty options we do now. "LFR players" will always be LFR players unless they can brute force mechanics.

[Nuba]

Since people here didn't understand yet, I'll make it in paint


hope this helps

[PrairieChicken]

I find that denying loots because one is "not worthy" is a bad game design

[deadman1]

You forget, they sometimes come here to say, "Raiding and/or Mythic+ is ruining the game for..." or "Raider.IO is ruining the game..." etc, etc.

They don't always quit. Sometimes they obtain a sense of false entitlement that is hard to watch.

M+ and titanforging are literally ruining the game. There is no definitive place to get loot anymore.
If anyone thinks getting better loot from freehold 10 than from mythic g'huun is reasonable or acceptable they are sorely mistaken.

[grexly75]

If they nuke the in-game community and make 5mans and raids very hard, people leave in droves. If they nuke the in-game community and make everything faceroll, people leave in droves.

Pretty much Blizzard are screwed no matter what they do..

[PrairieChicken]

If they nuke the in-game community and make 5mans and raids very hard, people leave in droves. If they nuke the in-game community and make everything faceroll, people leave in droves.

When Wrath of the Lich King made everything a faceroll joke mode, people didn't quit in droves. I would say that free loots and welfare epics are actually popular?

[KaPe]

When Wrath of the Lich King made everything a faceroll joke mode, people didn't quit in droves. I would say that free loots and welfare epics are actually popular?

You still didn't get the best loot without doing actually difficult content. It was even more true when the ICC dungeons were released, offering superior loot but higher challenge. There was no raid level gear being offered couple times a week from dailies or a chest which can potentially have the undisputed BiS items.

There were clear tiers of difficulty and items didn't randomly cross these lines to reward people for doing no effort other than getting lucky. That stuff only really began with late WoD mythic dungeons and became main part of the game in Legion.

[Baroclinic]

Bah, who do people even bother responding to Preach's whining?

[Jastall]

But people don't want to be trained. While I see and understand his point, he assumes a false premise, that every1 want to do harder content and that doing harder content will be good for them. Blizzard is not training people, because the people that want to overcome the challenge will try to do so, people that dont want, will comfortably stay in M+5 and have their fun.

Exactly. Ghostcrawler talked about this at length, and we saw it in WoD as well with people complaining about Proving Grounds or refusing to move towards Normal+ raiding when they gutted LFR.

And it's the same for every single game. Most players in LoL, DOTA or Overwatch play unranked. Most players playing single-player games do it on easy or normal. Put it simply, most players are bad or mediocre andare fine with being bad or mediocre. This stupid notion of forcibly "training" players only exists in the dreams of self-styled hardcores who condescendingly think people should learn from them and be like them.

The entire point of having so many systems and difficulties in this game is to provide a breadth of content and challenges for as many players as possible. Not to push everyone in +12 keys or Mythic raids.

[MalfLFT]

Hes 100% right, most People dont Even know how fking terrible they Are sand its not really their fault. Why learn to run if you never have to leave the bed?

[Naked Snake]

Maybe you should choose one of the 1000s of other videogames that don't offer a challenge or possibly stick to games like Minecraft?

Competitive online games clearly aren't for you, snowflake.

Clearly. That's why I have enjoyed it for 10 years.

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Hes 100% right, most People dont Even know how fking terrible they Are sand its not really their fault. Why learn to run if you never have to leave the bed?

Even if you tell them they are bad, they're not just gonna figure out what they're doing wrong. Even if the game throws them into a situation that is too hard for them, they are not just gonna try to figure out how to beat it, they are just gonna leave and do whatever content they've done before and say to themselves "dungeons/raids suck". Some people just don't enjoy playing that way.

[Sanguinerd]

When will people realize that being good isn't even remotely important to alot of players.

[Jastall]

Good for you.

Keep enjoying it at the lowest possible level then. Stop advocating for dumbing the game down for the rest of us.

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And yet Dota is the second highest played game on Steam and it has an insanely high barrier for entry.

It takes an immense amount of knowledge and skill to enjoy and flourish in the game.



It's almost as if there is a market for people who aren't mouth breathers who want zero challenge and small dopamine hits from free loot.

And in WoW these players can raid Mythic, push high keys or do high ranked Arenas. That's the entire point, there's content for all skill levels and the game breadcrumbs you there via ilvl. Everyone hits a wall at some point, that's inevitable unless you are the 0.01% at the very top of the game.

And you really don't need to be a god amongst nerds to play unranked in DOTA anyway.

[samus]

Clearly. That's why I have enjoyed it for 10 years.

You just lack the ability to face challenges and try to pretend it's because you're challenged in your real life.

"I don't suck at the game! I'm just sufficiently challenged in real life, the game being easier is fine by me!"

That's the thinking of someone who won't go anywhere, you're just no longer capable of pushing yourself. You definitely seem like the sort of person who failed to become an athlete and now push your kids to do sports while telling yourself 'I could've made the big leagues, I just chose a simpler life. Who needs that stress and attention?'

[MalfLFT]

Clearly. That's why I have enjoyed it for 10 years.

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Even if you tell them they are bad, they're not just gonna figure out what they're doing wrong. Even if the game throws them into a situation that is too hard for them, they are not just gonna try to figure out how to beat it, they are just gonna leave and do whatever content they've done before and say to themselves "dungeons/raids suck". Some people just don't enjoy playing that way.

Some might but a lot would definitely improve if it was something they had to

[darklogrus]

When will people realize that being good isn't even remotely important to alot of players.

An yet they continue to try and weasel themselves into content that requires it..

[tacoloco]

There was a time when people learned fights by actually doing them. Wipes were frequent, but the team would get better (even if it's a tiny bit) with almost every attempt.
These days, it seems, that if everyone doesn't know every single detail of a fight going it, it's some kind of failure. Yes, fights are more complex now, but the same thing applies. It just might take more wipes.

I think it took over 100 wipes to kill Lady Vashj in SSC back in the day. We were not a great raiding guild, but we put our shoulders into it and finally got the kill. We got good at it by doing it.

[Naked Snake]

Some might but a lot would definitely improve if it was something they had to

Okay. So, the way I understand the argument is this.

There are people, that aren't performing that well. These people are doing certain content, so that other people play together with them and are subject to their bad performance. These bad players are not improving their gameplay. But they would if they'd be challenged in the content they are doing.

But isn't the content they are doing already too hard for them? Otherwise they wouldn't fail and be a problem for other players, right? So then they are already faced with a challenge.

I mean if you are doing, let's say, mythic+ and you are grouped with these bad players that are never challenged in normal and heroic dungeons, and now you are there in a group with them, and you have to clear the dungeon with them, then wouldn't the fact that they are in mythic+ with you right now motivate them to rise to the challenge?

[Kokolums]

When Wrath of the Lich King made everything a faceroll joke mode, people didn't quit in droves. I would say that free loots and welfare epics are actually popular?

The mechanisms that had built the in-game community had been torn down by Wrath, but the communities themselves didn't vanish overnight. It wasn't until Cata that the community collapsed into faceless, nameless people running by you.

[Sanguinerd]

An yet they continue to try and weasel themselves into content that requires it..

So it's bad when they try and bad when they don't?