Poll: Do you agree with Don Lemon on this issue?

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  1. #201
    Pit Lord lokithor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Since when did you care about mostly gang deaths? They are black, the very people you could not care less about.

    Or..

    White men (depending on source) commit 60-70% of all mass shootings while being 12%?
    Might want to change that to White kids.

  2. #202
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klepp0906 View Post
    LOL. THAT actually made it onto the air, yet the internet is banning trump supporters left and right. #mindblown

    we cant even name a dog breed when it attacks its owner, or a persons ethnicity when they commit a violent crime (for ooooobvious reasons /s) but we can legit attack straight white men. Men by and large wholly responsible for making this country, you know.. a thing.

    country hellbent on driving itself into the gutter.

    always tell my wife, i wish heaven was a thing. ooooh to be able to look down 100 years from now at the undoubted shitfest the kids made.
    Whether or not you agree with him, he's not wrong. As a white man I know I have certain privileges in this country when it comes to many things. One of which is if I were to want to shoot up a large crowd to kill lots of people I'd have an easier time doing so than a black man or an Arab man and everyone would be all "I never thought he would do such a thing" would be plastered all over the media afterwards instead of "he was a radical Muslim" or "typical black man with violence".

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I think people keep confusing race, statistics, class/culture, and that males, in general are more violent than females...

    So while statistically what he said may be "true"... if we were in China it would be false, because there are more chinese men than white (european) ones.

    So this whole topic is a bit... I don't know... weird... it has nothing to do with race.
    It wouldn't if Don Lemon wasn't a hypocritical idiot.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    Whether or not you agree with him, he's not wrong. As a white man I know I have certain privileges in this country when it comes to many things. One of which is if I were to want to shoot up a large crowd to kill lots of people I'd have an easier time doing so than a black man or an Arab man and everyone would be all "I never thought he would do such a thing" would be plastered all over the media afterwards instead of "he was a radical Muslim" or "typical black man with violence".
    Thank you.......smh

    No one on this thread wants to acknowledge the double standard that exist

    If a thread is created about a black man killing someone you couldn’t make it past the first page without someone demonizing them for their race.

    But a white mass shooter? No one on these boards will mention their race. People will say “Let’s focus on the issue not race ” and “I don’t see why race is a factor”

    That same grace is not shown to black people that commit murders.

  5. #205
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I think people keep confusing race, statistics, class/culture, and that males, in general are more violent than females...

    So while statistically what he said may be "true"... if we were in China it would be false, because there are more chinese men than white (european) ones.

    So this whole topic is a bit... I don't know... weird... it has nothing to do with race.
    It's just a poor analogy by Lemon. Comparing sex and race traits with a system of ideas(religion) is apples to oranges.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Just out of curiousity, if you were to account for 9/11 in those terror statistics, what would they look like?
    It would look the same because he is talking about frequency of incidents not bodies related to the incidents. Two different metrics. 9/11 is essentially at most 4 incidents each tower, pentagon and the failed plane. Body count, because solely of 9/11 the muslim body count is higher, I think.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Binki View Post
    That's funny because:
    1. If gang shooting can be fixed by gun control, what makes right wing nuts different?
    2. Yeah... right. Gangs will give up their weapons. Gun control will fix gang shootings. Yep... they totally will give up their weapons...

    pipebombs bro pipebombs just saying

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    you really are dense aren't you. but you're probably one of those people who calls someone racist for pointing out with mathematical evidence that most danger comes from lower class areas of large cities which are mostly minorities.

    you're probably more likely to be killed by a falling penny than killed by a right-wing fanatic.
    lol lol lol, denial of the world you live in sure as hell isnt going to fix the problems we have, cant wait for the blue wave of progressives to hit so we can purge the conservative nonsense to the trash pile where it belongs the racist of the far right needs to be purged away only than can we make america great

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    The issue isn't that people are trying to pretend 9/11 (or the Holocaust) didn't happen - it's that these events are such massive STATISTICAL outliers they would skew the perception of data if they were universally included. Same reason you don't include WWII in statistics about gun violence, for example.

    To illustrate, say you were looking at statistics about violence against Jews. If you include the Holocaust in that (which was, to be sure, a MASSIVE act of violence against Jews) then you also diminish all the other, post-Holocaust violence to be far less statistically significant; what would a Pittsburgh Shooting of 11 people really say in the face of 6 million deaths? It would become a blip, a flicker, a statistical irrelevancy as a singular event. But it's not irrelevant, and it's more than a blip. It's a frighteningly significant event IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT - i.e. one that looks at a subset of violence against Jews that excludes the Holocaust. Not because you pretend it didn't happen or wasn't a shatteringly terrible event, but because it skews the perspective on other events.

    Statistics are a very tricky thing, because you can set them up in a myriad of ways, and each of those can over- or underemphasize certain aspects. And though an experienced statistician (or any scholar versed in statistical data analysis) could easily dissect such statistics, the vast majority of people are not exactly prone to be doing that. They are impressed by charts and curves, and it's important that we make it as easy as possible for those people to visualize what's relevant in the discussion when we bring up a statistic.

    Of course, it's not always easy to just arrive at THE perfect solution for a statistical representation. There's so many factors involved. Take rape charges, for example. A few years ago, Sweden (I think?) was in the press for having staggeringly high numbers of rape; but closer examination revealed that the reason for this was in large part due to the way the statistics counted rapes - they would count every. single. incidence. of rape; so if it was, say, a marriage in which the husband raped his wife hundreds of times over 20 years, then in Sweden, that would be hundreds of counts of rape entered into the statistic - while in many other countries, this would all be collated into a single rape "case", and counted only once. There's arguments for and against both ways of counting, and it's hard to objectively decide which one is more useful for the task at hand. "That task" being, of course, very easily abused by political agendas, and represented in a way that seems to reinforce their particular angle.

    That's why it's very dangerous to arrive at easy conclusions and generalizations. I get that Don Lemon in this case was (presumably) trying to emphasize that "immigrants" are a minority cause of violence and death within the USA. In the big picture, radical Muslim extremists, for example, have killed or injured a laughably minute number of Americans compared to how many were killed or injured by other Americans. But to put the "white male" emphasis on these statistics is another kind of bias, and quite problematic in its own right - not necessarily because it is a misrepresentation of statistical data (which does, for the most part, confirm that less people have been killed in the US by acts of Islamist terrorism than by acts of domestic terrorism committed by white male perpetrators) but because it skews the PERCEPTION of that data. Data doesn't tell you everything right away. You need a lot of work and analysis to understand data, and that's where it's all-too tempting to fall into easy generalizations and statistical "creativity".

    Personally, I think the biggest threat to American lives is no sinister terrorist plot or even tribalism and bigotry - it's a fundamentally broken political system that fosters these things in the first place. And I guess you could blame the "white males" for that one, if you were so inclined, because there certainly are a lot of them in that system - but I don't think that them being white or them being male is where the problem lies. They're connected, to be sure, but if anything, they are more symptomatic than causative.
    Also, all of this that you all mostly ignored because it doesn't fit you petty argument to push your agendas, get an echo chamber reaction, or stir up enough shit.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Donimic View Post
    It is relevant because you can not hold a grudge on an entire region of the world for a single event, no matter how horrific. I mean if you want to bring up the holocaust, maybe we should still be persecuting and barring entry to all Germans of the slight chance they are extremists? If you want 9/'11 included, perhaps we should the # of Americans that died in WW2 and the race of those who killed them.


    anyone can make cuts in the data to fit their narrative, don't be ridiculous.
    You also can't throw out the fact that anti-Semitism wasn't isolated to Germany during the period... It was rife throughout all of Europe. That's the trouble when people talk about these things. They end up in a arguement over what data we are keeping and throw out. Then argue about why and the real issue is lost as they push an agenda one way or the other.

    The trouble is its extremism Islamic/right/left/white/black/red/blue/pink that is the issue and trouble. Both sides are as bad as the other and the fact whatever way it lends is moot and pointless. The simple fact is that its extreme, violent, and kills people is the issue.

  10. #210
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    not really,it makes a lot of those "evil white men" feel like the left is against them
    so they go where they don't feel persecuted and targetted,it just makes sense
    If you think the left hates "white people" then either you seriously don't understand the left and you've fallen for right wing propaganda, or you're a racist/bigot who doesn't want to admit to their bigotry.

    Because the left does not hate white people.
    Putin khuliyo

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    If you think the left hates "white people" then either you seriously don't understand the left and you've fallen for right wing propaganda, or you're a racist/bigot who doesn't want to admit to their bigotry.

    Because the left does not hate white people.
    Possibly. But they do like to complain about the like the right does Mexicans.

  12. #212
    I am Murloc!
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    He's not wrong. I mean, if we're going to start getting to the root of the problems in this country then I think whites on the right should be shouldering the blame for domestic terrorism in the same way that blacks should be taking responsibility for the overwhelming amount of violent crime in this country.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    "white privilege" gets used in some circles, online, in media, and in workplace "orientation" and "Unconscious Bias" training events...

    People get resentful for being accused of implicit, or explicit racism, that happened in the past. Or, that because they are white, their position was somehow "handed" to them.
    There's nothing wrong or hateful about that. Just like assuming someone only got the job because of affirmative action.

    This is a joke since someone will take this seriously.

  14. #214
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    "white privilege" gets used in some circles, online, in media, and in workplace "orientation" and "Unconscious Bias" training events...

    People get resentful for being accused of implicit, or explicit racism, that happened in the past. Or, that because they are white, their position was somehow "handed" to them.
    You can rent it all you like.. doesn't mean it isn't true.

  15. #215
    High Overlord
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    lol, that poker face

  16. #216
    Titan
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    It's hilarious how much the left keeps driving people further right with fringe identity politics and racist bullshit like this. I'd admit to being a conservative, but I'm not blinded by the sheer ignorance and stupidity of the far right. Racist bigots are as loud and toxic as anarchistic terrorists like Antifa. They should all be locked up so they can stop spreading their racist diatribe. Racists like Don Lemon and fascists like Trump shouldn't be allowed to walk the streets, they should be in jail. But it's amazing how much America loves to keep driving the racism wedge further between the two sides. It's almost like your politics fails because two parties can't represent the wildly different political ideologies of both liberalism and conservativism.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nobody's denying that 9/11 happened. Or the Holocaust. We just recognize they were outliers that do not speak to the general trends.
    No, you claim that they are outliers that don't speak to the general trends.

    According to https://arxiv.org/pdf/0902.0724.pdf terrorism-attacks follow a power-law and 9/11 is just the normal tail of that distribution, not an exceptional outlier. It could be that different terrorism-types have different scales for their power-laws.

  18. #218
    He's probably right if looking at the statistics.

    Hell, the deadliest terror attack in Scandinavia is still in the hands of a white man.

    That being said, most white men (same as every other group) don't pose a threat, so not sure what the information is supposed to achieve.

  19. #219
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    He's probably right if looking at the statistics.

    Hell, the deadliest terror attack in Scandinavia is still in the hands of a white man.

    That being said, most white men (same as every other group) don't pose a threat, so not sure what the information is supposed to achieve.
    I think it's obvious what his argument is trying to achieve. He's claiming that a Muslim ban is not a valid idea unless there can also be a white man ban. But he's confusing the world of ideas and the world of identity traits. Implying that you can't ban an ideological system is like saying a country has no right to screen out Nazis in the immigration process.

  20. #220
    Actually the biggest threat to others in this country are black males between the ages of 18-35.

    But we should stop demonizing people, amirite guiz?
    People working 2 jobs in the US (at least one part-time) - 7.8 Million (Roughly 4.9% of the workforce)

    People working 2 full-time jobs in the US - 360,000 (0.2% of the workforce)

    Average time worked weekly by the US Workforce - 34.5 hours

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