Warmode - An utter failure

[LanToaster]

Second step: this is a hard problem since it stems from the unwillingness from the Alliance to do wPvP. I would use a Wintergrasp based buff i.e increasing stats/dmg/healing on unbalanced shards that will buff Alliance players (or Horde) for being outnumbered in WM shards. A lot of work to fine tune would be required and fixing a lot of corner cases that intelligent players will exploit.

Well, the biggest problem I see is the Corpse Camping.

Maybe not a passive increase. But something like Determination in LFR, if you get killed more than x times in y time, you get a stacking buff, until you can Oneshot the group of Corpsecamping asshats.

[StrawberryZebra]

If world quests end up taking 5 times longer it doesn't take long before you remove war mode and go without those extra 10% since the reward isn't worth the effort as alliance.

This is the core reason the system is so flawed. Alliance, at least in my experiance, are so hopelessly outnumbered in Warmode that it's just not worth the effort. It's such an uphill battle to get anything done that 10% extra XP, Resources etc just isn't enough of an incentive. I don't think the idea is bad, wPvP was always opt in afterall, but the execution is way off. As others have said, it's a relatively risk free +10% bonus for playing Horde.

That's not because I'm against PvP, old school wPvP was always inbalanced where numbers were involved. You'd get 2v3's, 4v2, 5v3's and so on happening organically in places like Southshore, Ashenvale, Stranglethorn Vale and outside dungeons and such. You'd have one group that was a tank and 2 DPS against a Healer and a DPS. Lobsided battles happened all over the place without needing to funnel players into specific areas. You were as often a part of the larger group as you were the smaller one, so it evened out in the long run.

Warmode tends to be 3v1. Or 4v1. Or 25v1. Or you get killed at the flightmaster before you've had the chance to move. You don't get lobsided fights as much as you get ganged up on by Horde. Sure, I could try getting others involved, but "Hey guys, turn on Warmode and come get farmed by Horde gank squads!" isn't much of a pitch. Most people have it turned off to avoid getting farmed to begin with.

I'm sure if the situation were reversed and Horde were getting farmed by the Alliance all those people who's attitude is currently "Sack up Alliance, LOL!" would be the ones here complaining.

[Deleted]

World PvP is cancer, glad I don't need to take part in it anymore.

Well, this sums up my thoughts about Warmode too.

[Schizoide]

I think a lot of the problem is they're rewarding people for enabling PvP rather than actually PvPing.

The reward should be conquest points awarded by getting honorable kills on players of the same level who actually fight back, in fair fights where they aren't gankbanged by 20 dudes.

World PvP has always been ganking. That's what leaving PvP mode on all the time means. It's always meant that. Ganking is super fun for the ganker, and not fun at all for the gankee. So the incentives required to be the gankee would have to be extreme, and for what, allowing some people to gank? Screw it, just toss the idea entirely. World PvP deserves to die.

The War Mode bonus should be removed and replaced with nothing. If people want to actually PvP, they can turn on War Mode. If not, not.

[Brocksley]

The only difference now is that, since I was on a PvP server previously, I can now toggle that off if I don't want to hassle with wPvP. 10% isn't enough of a benefit to matter for rewards at 120. I don't think it's a failure at all, since it didn't change anything other than letting me pick if I want to wPvP or not. This topic has blown way out of proportion, in my opinion. It's really such a tiny thing.

[Schizoide]

Brocksley, the issue is faction imbalance. In many regions Horde can get the War Mode bonus without any risk of being ganked, while Alliance can't.

[crono14]

What in this expansion hasn't been an utter failure.

I miss my PvP server, it was the entire reason to even roll on a PvP server. Now it's all optional, and the rewards simply aren't enough to have most people turn it on and even when it is, I never see anyone to engage.

[Deleted]

The main problem is the reward. I am the only play in my guild that likes to play some PvP, but i am also one of the few players in my guild that has the warmode turned off. I dont like World PvP, because it is a waste of time in my opinion and the 15% bonus AP doesnt outweight the annoyance of World PvP.

In my opinion the WQ shouldnt reward anything extra, because alot of players feel forced into playing with warmode on to min/max. Without the 15% bonus i think alot of players would turn the warmode off.

[Deleted]

They can start by removing bonuses for the faction with the higher population, right now warmode and every other benefit the horde offers compared to the alliance is a really bad design if they want to try and sort out the faction imbalance in the future, this will quickly snowball out of control if they don't adress it soon since every day that goes by more people realize that everything is better on one side.

Horde:
More people to play with, easier to find groups, raids
Easier to find guild/recruit to guild
10% more resources when doing world quests for no effort
Better PvE racials

Alliance:
Less people to play with, harder to find groups, raids
Harder to find guild/recruit to guild
10% more resources when doing world quests for very high effort
Worse PvE racials

Which one would you choose knowing these facts?

[Chaelexi]

Using care bear as a term in 2018 is as cringe as people still posting trollface memes tbh

A guy named Trihard telling people carebear is cringe worthy.....think about that

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

I play with warmode on because it gives me a useful talent.


Thats it.

[Selah]

Been Alliance since Vanilla. All my alliance characters have WM on full time. Don't really run into many problems. You get the occasional group of Horde scum who decide to take over a WQ. Almost always, about 10 to 15 minutes later a group of Allies comes through and wipes them out. All seems pretty standard procedure for PvP to me.

[RussW210]

First step: Remove the 10% extra rewards. In reality this has translated into PvE Horde players just enjoying increased throughput via PVP talents and increased rewards WITHOUT DOING ANY WORLD PVP at all.

Second step: this is a hard problem since it stems from the unwillingness from the Alliance to do wPvP. I would use a Wintergrasp based buff i.e increasing stats/dmg/healing on unbalanced shards that will buff Alliance players (or Horde) for being outnumbered in WM shards. A lot of work to fine tune would be required and fixing a lot of corner cases that intelligent players will exploit.

I dont have a problem with WM per se. I have a problem with PvE players enjoying War Mode increased rewards and not interacting with any PvP.

I agree with everything here.

[Puri]

I think one of the major problems is how they deal with faction imbalance. If you have 500 horde players spread on 5 shards, and 200 alliance players equally spread among those shards, they are clearly in the disadvantage, get frustrated, and turn off warmode.
The better alternative would be to put the 200 alliance players on the first two shards, and make another shard that is purely horde. This might be boring for those horde on those shards, but it might give more people on the disadvantaged faction reason to turn on WM.

It's hard to say what strategy Blizzard is currently following, because for the players it would be pretty intransparent. The chance for a horde player to be on the horde only shard with only little to none alliance players is fairly high.

As someone who has leveled toons on both factions in this addon, all with WM on, I can say that I have encountered exactly 0 PVP battles, no matter the side. Perhaps their algorithm to split the shards is simply very, very bad - or it might be much more complicated (due to unknown technical reasons) than we are aware of.

[c1v1d]

[QUOTE=Three Jackdaws;50400630]The problem is not enough Alliance turn on warmode.

Turn it on and fix the problem.

It's in your own hands.

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty much this. I've levelled to 120 as both Horde and Alliance with Warmode on. It is shocking how much Horde outnumbers Alliance. Is it because Alliance is more casual then Horde? Or Alliance players just don't want to do WPvP? I don't know honestly. All I can say is that is was not fun levelling as Alliance with Warmode on.

[Softbottom]

Its not the faction inbalance

People just do not give a shit about world PvP. Blizzard tries to force it and it fails over and over.

Just like they forced PvP in MoP for the Black Dragon quests.

WoWs PvP has always been terrible, forced, and not fun.

This in a nutshell. No one in my guild or anyone else I play with gives a fuck about wpvp.

[Bhorin]

Horde:
More people to play with, easier to find groups, raids
Easier to find guild/recruit to guild
10% more resources when doing world quests for no effort
Better PvE racials

Alliance:
Less people to play with, harder to find groups, raids
Harder to find guild/recruit to guild
10% more resources when doing world quests for very high effort
Worse PvE racials

Which one would you choose knowing these facts?

Racials aren't even that big of a disparity at this point (lightforged dranei sims top dps for most classes they can be and upcoming troll nerf too). Hell Shadowmeld might be the best M+ racial out there now with torrent changed to the dispel.

I also don't think stating the same thing twice (same list alliance, horde) really makes your point any stronger.

[lummiuster]

Warmode is an absolute failure.

Warmode was brought into BfA to "save" World PvP.

It did the exact opposite.

Today, only Horde use Warmode. They have permanent 15% bonus on all rewards, with no punishment.

Try getting a group for world quests when you have Warmode on as Alliance. Try summoning people on the summoning stone when you have warmode on as alliance (all your other party members will have it off). Most of all, get ready to never see a single Alliance player nearby and get killed by 4-5 hordes at the same time until you turn it off.

So there I go. I went from having a failry balanced 50/50 A/H ratio PvP server in Cata (Outland-EU) to now being basically forced into a PvE realm for the forseable future.

Great system...

How would you guys fix this mess if you were lead dev of Retail?

Then try convincing more alliance to use warmode... I changed faction a week ago from Horde to Alliance because I was tired of not finding anyone to kill. I'm so happy right now. A lot of hordies to kill.

[nToxik]

I have played on a PvP server since 2005 but I currently have Warmode off. Why? Because I decided to play Warlock on BfA and they are shit for PvP and because of that, I don't receive bonuses.

[Bhorin]

Then try convincing more alliance to use warmode... I changed faction a week ago from Horde to Alliance because I was tired of not finding anyone to kill. I'm so happy right now. A lot of hordies to kill.

The problem with this is that most people aren't interested in wPvP (even the horde players), but horde get a free 10% bonus by not wPvPing with it on and no alliance player who isn't interested in wPvP is ever going to turn it back on after the first few weeks of the xpac, that ship sailed. Just turn off the bonus, give everyone the talents outside of raid/dungeon and let people who want to wPvP do wPvP and let those who don't want to not affect the shard balancing for those that do.