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  1. #21
    The overall slowing capability nerfs were long overdue imho. I think the end result it's a tad drastic, i would have preferred a bigger reduction on Frostbolt (from 15 secs to 5, instead of 8) and maybe a bit smaller one on Blizzard (1.5 seconds means that as soon as they walk out of the spell's area they are basically at 100% speed after a single global, would have preferred at least enough time to recast it while still counting on the impaired movement).

    I am not that much worried about the damage part: they just offset the change with the amount they felt was enough, more tuning will be coming if it will end up being needed.

  2. #22
    Was expecting something in the range of -20 to -40%. Pretty dumbed down concept of getting that much damage from just a button press.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelathos View Post
    Was kind of expecting a damage boost.

    Frost is dead last in Heroic Raiding.
    Not sure what people expect. Frost is like always the best spec till people get gear and it just gets out scaled super quick

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Clobbernator View Post
    Thank God.

    It's fucking bullshit at the moment how frost has everything. The same damage as fire/arcane (more on huge aoe), and all the utility. Personally I hope they nerf it into the ground - frost is by far the most boring spec and I absolutely hate being forced to play it on very high keys just because its fucking broken.
    I hope they buff it so youre forced to play it or reroll

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Not sure what people expect. Frost is like always the best spec till people get gear and it just gets out scaled super quick
    Personally I never expected Frost to be awesome at everything, im ok with being average in ST and sustained AOE, when you can make it up with burst AOE and great 2 target cleave with good utility.

    What I never expected is that mid pack at best damage to be nerfed, as well as a complete gutting of the utility aspect of the snares.

    Really interesting decision that I really hope wasn't made because of "competitive" mplus, but I have it feeling it might have been

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheViper View Post
    Personally I never expected Frost to be awesome at everything, im ok with being average in ST and sustained AOE, when you can make it up with burst AOE and great 2 target cleave with good utility.

    What I never expected is that mid pack at best damage to be nerfed, as well as a complete gutting of the utility aspect of the snares.

    Really interesting decision that I really hope wasn't made because of "competitive" mplus, but I have it feeling it might have been
    It was since it was a frozen orb nerf. Funny since they had to buff fire like 3 times so people would actually play it, which is getting another buff with blaster master stacking.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Clobbernator View Post
    Just give the others something, anything. Hell, give arcane rogue's shroud or give fire a stun, they don't all have to be slows and it's fine for the specs to have different utility. It's just not fine for 1 spec to have all the utility, others to have none and it do the same damage. That's the bullshit thing.
    “Give Arcane Rogues shroud” what are you smoking?..

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    “Give Arcane Rogues shroud” what are you smoking?..
    How about we give shroud to shadow priest or some spec that is actually a m+ underdog.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    How about we give shroud to shadow priest or some spec that is actually a m+ underdog.
    How about no. Stop the crazy talk.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Phasetwist View Post
    I hope they buff it so youre forced to play it or reroll
    That is nearly the reality right now only interrupted by the emergence of an equally broken bm fire rotation.
    Go to raider.io and look at the graphs at the top with dps representation for keys (https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...MythicLevel=99). It is completely lopsided and it really not a surprise and 100% justified if frost among other specs gets toned down.
    Last edited by Deiae; 2018-11-02 at 05:14 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    The overall slowing capability nerfs were long overdue imho. I think the end result it's a tad drastic, i would have preferred a bigger reduction on Frostbolt (from 15 secs to 5, instead of 8) and maybe a bit smaller one on Blizzard (1.5 seconds means that as soon as they walk out of the spell's area they are basically at 100% speed after a single global, would have preferred at least enough time to recast it while still counting on the impaired movement).
    Still have Cone of Cold (5sec) and Frost Nova to wait for the next Blizzard though.
    If kiting is mandatory, even a Frostbolt on each target is still way more efficient than 80% of all snares in the game.

    I'm expecting they buff Frigid Winds by a fair margin too. Like, instead of buffing slows by 15%, that could in addition increase slows by 2-3 seconds.

  12. #32
    Finally blizzard bringing some balance to the game,frost mages were out of control in m+ dungeons, they will still have their aoe but they will be stripped from the slow utility, so raiding wont be affected. Going down to earth from god status.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Still have Cone of Cold (5sec) and Frost Nova to wait for the next Blizzard though.
    If kiting is mandatory, even a Frostbolt on each target is still way more efficient than 80% of all snares in the game.

    I'm expecting they buff Frigid Winds by a fair margin too. Like, instead of buffing slows by 15%, that could in addition increase slows by 2-3 seconds.
    and thus negating the aim of the proposed nerfs completely. if their intention was to keep the status quo intact and just shift stuff around I don't think they would choose such nerfs.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by carlos9949 View Post
    Finally blizzard bringing some balance to the game,frost mages were out of control in m+ dungeons, they will still have their aoe but they will be stripped from the slow utility, so raiding wont be affected. Going down to earth from god status.
    Except it does matter - reducing the damage of a spec that is already between the midpack and the bottom is just weird.
    Snares do matter on certain bosses, zekvoz and zul for starters.

    The data is there

    FM weren't even the top Mplus class, they were good of course, but not the gods people make them out to be.

    It also massively effects the open world, making snares virtually useless. A single global slow is stupid. As for pvp, every melee class already has more ways to close than mages ways to get away.

    I could go on, but you will ignore it anyway.

  15. #35
    I would understand Flamestrike not having a slow component anymore, but removing SLOWS from FROST mage sounds pretty hilarious. Assa rogues are already pumping high numbers on trash, Fire is already ahead of frost for the highest keys and with 8.1 further 2ndaries scaling frost would be long gone. Pretty much as in Legion.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TheViper View Post
    The data is there

    FM weren't even the top Mplus class, they were good of course, but not the gods people make them out to be.
    please. don't be ridiculous and look at it objectively. open the link and tell me you don't think that frost mages are not one of the overrepresented specs out there.
    https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...MythicLevel=99

    zek'voz and zul will hardly matter in 8.1 - due to increased gear and the raid's importance fading due to a new raid on the horizon.

    no one balances around the open world. and pvp balancing can and should be done via separate effects - that is not unheard of - see the fairly recent arcane pressure, rune of power etc. adjustments that work differently for pvp and pve.

    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    I would understand Flamestrike not having a slow component anymore, but removing SLOWS from FROST mage sounds pretty hilarious. Assa rogues are already pumping high numbers on trash, Fire is already ahead of frost for the highest keys and with 8.1 further 2ndaries scaling frost would be long gone. Pretty much as in Legion.
    frost still has slows. just ask your tank to keep the mobs in the blizzard and use the rest of your toolkit. and fire is only arguably pulling ahead very recently because of BM - which is surely going to be nerfed once they come back from blizzcon and decide how.
    Last edited by Deiae; 2018-11-02 at 08:27 AM.

  17. #37
    Its a FROST spec, it should have good SLOWS, wtf are you guys on about

  18. #38
    I think most people - even mages - will agree that 15 second 50% (65% with talent) slows applied so easily were probably a bit too much.

    However - they over nurfed the snare duration here. Dropping some down from 15 seconds to 1.5 seconds is a bit much. I wouldve been accepting of Blizzard getting nerfed to a 3-5second snare for example, but not 1.5 seconds. Especially for a spec whos name is Frost.

    I would be more accepting of the changes if they allowed mages a talent to trade extra snare/utility for damage. Right now though, its just been taken away with one hand, and nothing given back on the other.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Deiae View Post
    and thus negating the aim of the proposed nerfs completely. if their intention was to keep the status quo intact and just shift stuff around I don't think they would choose such nerfs.
    Yeah, because 1.5+3=15 for the Blizzard slow, same as Frost bolt going from 15 to 8 seconds, adding 3 seconds to the new slow will for sure bring it back to 15.

    Quick Maffs.

  20. #40
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    The thing I don't get is the nerf to the damage. Slows? Yeah, sure. Fine, whatever. Not super happy about it but I can see some reasoning behind it.

    But as I understand it, they are nerfing both Comet Storm and Frozen Orb by 35% of spell power (Whatever that equals to). ..As well as a flat 2% damage nerf to those along with everything else? Am I missing something here?

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