[Spoilers] Lost Honor Cinematic

[Haytham]

So Anduin says in the battle for Lordaeron that Saurfang spared his life ?

If i look at the cinematic it looks that Greymane punches Saurfang while he was trying to kill Anduin.

So.....what gives ?

[Perkunas]

Shit, once they kill that shitty Corpse Bride for good I can go back to Horde again.

[Jshadowhunter]

No, really? Hahahahahahahaha... I start to think you're a really thin troll in disguise. Either that or you didn't pay attention to intro scenario on Horde side. And no, I don't mean FMV. You literally see ALIVE Horde soldiers dropping around you first time she releases blight.

He didn't say it properly.

Yes, Sylvannas technically DID gas the Horde people, but it was part of her war plan, not part of an ethnic cleansing program.

[KaPe]

That's like saying the Italians who killed Mussolini were against Italy. A leader =/= a faction/state.

Well, in theory, Horde is supposed to follow their Warchief to the end... which of course would mean that they already failed to do that with Garrosh, so it's a moot point anyway.

[Timester]

Pro-Sylvanas posters aren't the ones saying that the core of Warcraft is "Orcs v. Humans." In this forum, they've been on full display arguing against that.


No, being a "traitor" isn't relative. You don't get to completely reinvent the Horde and then moan about how deviations from it are treasonous, I don't care which iteration the Horde was in when you started.

It's amazing to see the Alliance players defending an orc, without truly understanding that the traditional Horde players don't want neither a genocidal undead nor a traitor orc.

[Syegfryed]

So Anduin says in the battle for Lordaeron that Saurfang spared his life ?

If i look at the cinematic it looks that Greymane punches Saurfang while he was trying to kill Anduin.

So.....what gives ?

you can see how saurfang hit him with the axe cable, and didn't rush him afterwards

[dreamfillah]

What is with all the people saying Saurfang is 'traitorous'?

He wants the best for the Horde. The Horde is grinding itself to dust fighting a war it never needed to create in the first place. Is wanting the Horde to live on treason now or did forum RP get really popular this expansion?

Those really wanting the best for the Horde should be praising Saurfang for getting along with the Alliance, even if it is grudgingly. Because that is diplomacy, and that is what leaders do. Not burning everything because of a temper tantrum.

The problem isn't the in-universe reasoning of getting along with the Alliance in terms of diplomacy. It's the fact this whole story arc hinges on the war being over, once Sylvanas is dethroned, which is Saurfang making the supremely naive assumption that the Alliance would let the rest of the Horde (who were either complicit or 100% on board) get away with genocide, again.

It's a part of the inherent premise-related problem of how the story even got here in the first place (i.e nobody in the Horde but Saurfang making the slightest act of resistance against Sylvanas' plans from the War of Thorns to 8.1, which is still ridiculous), making the Horde cast aside from the Zandalari look like a cavalcade of idiots.

[Powerogue]

The Warchief literally cannot betray any of his/her subjects.

Yes they can. Are you seriously coming in here and saying that if a Warchief started killing all their own subjects for no reason, that's just something everyone should roll over and take? A leader is there to lead their subjects, regardless of what they title themselves.

Elisande, Kael'thas, we went through the list already. Plenty of leaders betrayed their subjects by working against their best interests. The nightborne would have all been thrown into the soul furnaces, one by one, with Elisande being the last one in, if their people hadn't stepped up and stopped her.

The Horde would not exist if its people had not ensured their leaders did just that, lead them to a prosperous future. Instead there'd be some demon-corrupted slaves, mindless zombies, withered elves, conquered trolls...
The goblins would be about the same though, actually. :P

Saurfang wants a Horde worth fighting for. And dangit I do too. As much fun as I've had on my pandaren reveling in the insane brutality, taking SELFIE screenshots in Brennadam and the like, it's not the Horde I signed up for. The Horde is basically the villain faction right now except for a few standout characters during the war campaign. (Zelling, Garona, Rexxar, and Voss)

[Syegfryed]

It's amazing to see the Alliance players defending an orc, without truly understanding that the traditional Horde players don't want neither a genocidal undead nor a traitor orc.

we don't, but sadly we will stay with one of those

and a "traitor" orc is better than a genocidal traitor undead elf

[Villager720]

Well, in theory, Horde is supposed to follow their Warchief to the end... which of course would mean that they already failed to do that with Garrosh, so it's a moot point anyway.

Its always been moot. If you can challenge and kill the warchief for leadership, that should also be considered a traitorous act.

[Jastall]

Warbringers had plenty of people white knighting it, to suggest otherwise is pure revisionism.




At least you're admitting that this is dodgy (read: Atrocious, unbearable and complete and utter garbage) writing.

Handwaving all the opinions you don't like as white knighting is convenient but not really honest.

And yeah, the faction war writing is bad. In other news, birds fly, sun shines and water is wet.

[LazarusLong]

And the solution is to betray his own family? Remember Nazgrim, he died for the Horde.

Which Sylvanas betrayed. Remember, she was on the OTHER side of the siege?

[Timester]

That's like saying the Italians who killed Mussolini were against Italy. A leader =/= a faction/state.

That's the worst kind of "apples and oranges" I ever saw. Because Saurfang was the second-in-command leader of the Horde and now is an Alliance puppet because he decided NOT to fight Sylvanas.

[Villager720]

sadly we don't, but we will stay with one of those

and a "traitor" orc is better than a genocidal traitor undead elf

Yes. At least Saurfang cares about the Horde.
Its been made abundantly clear that Sylvanas wasn't even appointed by legitimate means (Vol'jin was "influnced" into choosing her) and doesn't care for the Horde.
How anyone defends her leadership of the Horde as benefiting and aiding the Horde is beyond me.

[Timester]

we don't, but sadly we will stay with one of those

and a "traitor" orc is better than a genocidal traitor undead elf

No, BOTH are bad. Something that some people can't seem to see.

[Combatbutler]

All of this was so utterly predictable

[jackofwind]

The Warchief literally cannot betray any of his/her subjects.

Less about honor, more about not collaborating with the enemy.

If he can't, he needs to fight harder, or accept that by established laws she deserves to be Warchief.

Even the most fascist of dictators can be seen to be betraying his or her subjects by those subjects. That's all that matters when they're the ones deciding to go against that leader. Whether the leader thinks they betrayed anyone is completely inconsequential. The Horde isn't a bunch of brainwashed zombies - even the Forsaken don't blindly follow. What you're describing is just another step towards the Scourge 2.0 or Fel Orcs where they just follow their supposedly omniscient leadership.

Saurfang sees Sylvanas as the enemy, and his point of view is what dictates his actions. It's not hard to understand, it's just a basic storytelling device. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is a saying that exists for a reason.

Mak'gora is an orc/ogre tradition. Sylvanas likely wouldn't even be interested in having one, and certainly wouldn't fight fairly if she did. She would absolutely have a contingency plan in case she was overpowered, like flooding the arena with Blight or something similar. Plus she's already dead. So what now, how does she lose in a fight where her opponent is only allowed a single weapon while she possesses all the powers of a banshee?

[Trassk]

How is this not just Garrosh 2.0. I'm super disappointed.

Good, I'll drink it in.

Sylvanas has been a growing cancer in the hordes storyline for to long, time to cut that b**ch out, maybe give the forsaken someone who doesn't just think of them as cannon fodder

[Villager720]

That's the worst kind of "apples and oranges" I ever saw. Because Saurfang was the second-in-command leader of the Horde and now is an Alliance puppet because he decided NOT to fight Sylvanas.

Wanting to save your people (the Horde) doesn't make you an alliance puppet.
I don't think those Italians were Allied puppets. They were people taking their nation away from destructive hands.

[jackofwind]

No, being a "traitor" isn't relative. You don't get to completely reinvent the Horde and then moan about how deviations from it are treasonous, I don't care which iteration the Horde was in when you started.

Being a traitor is absolutely relative based on who is in power. Stalin came into power and many people who were ardent supporters of the former regime were traitors to him, though they all were loyal to Russia.

You are looking at things from a totally unrealistic black and white point of view.