Poll: how do you feel about level squish

[Truhan]

I'm not against it, but they have to sort out exactly what to do as a real solution, not a bandaid one. So far the squishes we've had have been so meaningless in the end because we jump leagues again in a single expansion that it's clearly not a great solution to the problem. If they do a level squish, I want them to have a long term plan so they don't have to do another a few expacs later. The only thing more jarring than resetting back to a lower level/power level, is doing that over and over.

I haven't played in like 8 years, but very this. The squishes aren't a solution. They're a reset button for you to press when you have a real solution. Pressing the reset button with every expansion obviously isn't a good idea, and I thought Blizzard knew that the first time they did a squish. I thought they would be more careful with the power creep so that item leveling could last into the foreseeable future. I was wrong.

[Acelius]

I got a friend of mine to try out WoW for the first time recently. He said he was very demotivated, right from the get-go, as the road from 1-120 seemed endless.

I'm sure a level-squish would be beneficial in that regard.

However, with the new scaling tech, ideally they could just decrease the xp needed to level, since you don't out level zones like you used to.

[Pete]

The current business model of subscribers having access to legacy/outdated content works favourably for this idea.
I don't have any objection to it, so long as it is not done in such a manner as to act as a band aid.. it should be something done as a move forward/long term planning as an additional thing, rather than acting as a distraction from the games problems.

Even though numbers aren't what they once were I doubt any of them anticipated this would be doing as well as it is over a decade later, else they would probably gone a different route to begin with (5 level increments each time for example)

[Flurryfang]

Level Squish is proberly the worst way to deal with the leveling problem, not from a player standpoint, but from a design standpoint. Blizz will have to do so much small-work to make it all work, since things can't just be reduced in half and everything will be fine.

I would much rather just prefer a flat 75-100% exp gain from all content before current expansion, since the lvl scaling takes care of any problem with leveling too fast in a zone. This would allow the current system to work, while also heavily reducing the amount of time it takes to level a character.

[nekobaka]

Dont mind it much especially with my hate with the absurd ilvl scaling the devs have turned their backs on.

[exochaft]

I for one, and it seems i'm not alone, would love to see the old talent trees back, in a more worked out state ofc.

Talent trees didn't give you choice. Majority of the talents were just dumb and everyone took the same thing.

why? its not like levels give us skills anymore.

What I feel needs to be looked at is not necessarily changing the talent trees, but an additional way to add power to your character as you level that's not tied to the talents. The problem is two-fold: currently talents/abilities are mostly your only metric of feeling more powerful as you level, and you currently have 119 level jumps that need to make you feel good. One method, as is being discussed now, is to squish the levels so you have less level jumps to make exciting. Another method is adding a system that increases your power every level, or at least makes the player think/feel they're getting more powerful.

As someone stated, you used to get prompts of each of your stat increases when your leveled, but that's gone now... not the stat gain, the game telling you what changed when you dinged. While it may not seem consequential, that was all you had to indicate you gained power beyond a talent point. With how the talents are now (and I'd argue talents are in a better spot), you can't have 100+ talent points to work with. Other games use systems like stat allocation systems, where gaining a level give you, for example, 5 stat points that you can allocate. It doesn't have to be much, but the players feeling like they're increasing their power is necessary. Diablo 3's paragon system (800 and below) is an example of how each time you level you gain power, but ultimately everyone's got the same stuff in the last 3 pages of paragon traits.

[AngryTenko]

I wouldn't mind a squish, but it seems like it'd be a technical nightmare to implement, and more trouble than it's worth. I personally think it'd be more effective to implement some sort of activity that max level characters can do with lower level ones, like island expeditions and timewalking dungeons, so people who haven't hit max level yet can play with their max level friends without the pressure to hurry up and get to max level already.

[Blackmist]

Honestly, I think I'd be OK if they got rid of levelling completely.

We just need a nice intro area and quest chain for each class to introduce core abilities. Unlock specs once you've completed a chain for them too.

Zones could have a basic story quest for them to introduce all the places in them and why they might be important, and then have World Quests once you've done them.

Items could start each expansion at ilvl 100 or whatever, unlocking higher items for each raid and content tier, until a reset for each new expansion resets everything back to 100 again. You could even do that at each season of content, rather than expansion. That would mean not needing huge amounts of catch up gear adding.

[Kolvarg]

I'm ok with it. But just squishing levels won't fix leveling.

At this point I just don't care that much about levels anymore. But if a level squish prevents having a stat squish every expansion, I'm up for it.

[Wild]

EZ solution: Blizzard just makes a new expansion (cos fuck bfa and it cant be saved anyway) and start over at low levels, ez fix!

[Cyanu]

best cure again eye cancer in the game...

all those ridiculous numbers floating over our targets were getting out of hand

[Deleted]

leveling in wow is an nearly unnecessary thing.
the whole game is not designed for leveling, it is the end-game them ost players are interested in.
leveling is there, but it is for the most ppl something that they have to do, not what they want to do.

i would be fine with a cut by 50% so that we would be at lvl 60, but with the same lvl/hr gain as right now.
that would be awesome!

[Surreality]

They never squish it enough. I think they should show damage and healing in percents rather than just raw numbers. The numbers are arbitrary. They don't actually mean anything. I can see the outrage now. Then, after a while it would just die down and eventually be accepted. Just like every other change that's made in life.

[Mixxy]

A level squish would serve literally no purpose. You'd still have the same amount of content stretched over the same amount of played time. The only difference is you'd get stat upgrades or new abilities half as often as you do now.

I can see absolutely no positive in a level squish. There's literally nothing it could do that you can't do easier and faster by just increasing current EXP gain instead.

[Deleted]

I don't think the actual squish would matter to most people. I think the potential fallout is what is important.

If they squish 1-120 down to 1-60, what happens to my level 46 alt with 6 bars of experience in? Does the time to get to 60 now take half the time or the same time? How do we assign talents, abilities, zones, dungeons, etc? Do we still gets mounts at 20/40? When do we unlock flying & epic flying? What are the new level ranges for each expansion and corresponding raids/dungeons? What happens to player power, ilvl, gear, etc?

It's a very complex issue which would in many ways be like taking the recent ilvl squish and amplifying it to the max.

It's not really that complex of an issue.

If you are at 46 now and the new max is 60, your character just gets scaled to whateverthecorrespodinglevelwouldbe.

Getting to 60 should obviously be quicker than getting to 120 currently is.

Assigning the talents correctly isn't any more complex than it is now.

Zones can scale the same way vanilla zones scale now. Just think of new numbers to match the xp progression. Ditto with dungeons.

Mounts/flying can unlock in accordance to the new leveling pace. 40 for flying probably be fine for older content.

Power level issues aren't any more complex than they are with ilvl squish. Level squish essentially is just an ilvl squish that makes leveling faster/smoother in addition to nerfing ilevels.

[Mixxy]

It's not really that complex of an issue.

If you are at 46 now and the new max is 60, your character just gets scaled to whateverthecorrespodinglevelwouldbe.

Getting to 60 should obviously be quicker than getting to 120 currently is.

Assigning the talents correctly isn't any more complex than it is now.

Zones can scale the same way vanilla zones scale now. Just think of new numbers to match the xp progression. Ditto with dungeons.

Mounts/flying can unlock in accordance to the new leveling pace. 40 for flying probably be fine for older content.

Power level issues aren't any more complex than they are with ilvl squish. Level squish essentially is just an ilvl squish that makes leveling faster/smoother in addition to nerfing ilevels.

Every line of that just amounts to: "Everything would be exactly the same".

And if that's the case... if nothing changes... why do it in the first place? And you can't just say 'Well to make leveling faster!'. You can do that by simply buffing EXP gains. What can a level squish possibly offer to justify it being done at all?

[Deleted]

A level squish would serve literally no purpose. You'd still have the same amount of content stretched over the same amount of played time. The only difference is you'd get stat upgrades or new abilities half as often as you do now.

I can see absolutely no positive in a level squish. There's literally nothing it could do that you can't do easier and faster by just increasing current EXP gain.

Quicker leveling. A new level would actually feel like a power up as you gain new abilities and such. A completely new player wouldn't feel so discouraged by having to level a whopping 120 levels. <-- that's at least three two big ones.

As for your stat upgrade thing, currently when you level you don't gain any power ups. You just level and keep mowing down the same way all the way through, except things just keep getting slower and slower each level once you go past 110.

[Crudence]

I'm more for turning it into a system like the new profession system:


Classic: 1-60. Each expansion after that has it's own level ranges.
BC: 1-10 BC levels.
Wrath: 1-10 Wrath levels.
Cata: 1-10 Cata levels.
...

Each expansion has it's own levels which unlock specific talents which can't be unlocked in other content. Like: Wrath level 9 unlocks Talent XY.

Content in each expansion unlocks stuff, like:


The Lich King drops a part of a collection item which when completed grants your mount a frozen aura, so all open world mobs around you are slowed when riding. Other parts of the collection can be found all around Northrend.

Stuff you don't need, but nice to have. This would make old content relevant again. Getting loremaster and completing old raids/dungeons of a specific expansion once unlocks legacy mode in old raids/dungeons, so you can farm your transmogs.

I really like this idea. And it would solve the problem they would eventually face, that a new level squish would be needed. As has happened with dmg numbers now twice. I think they need to think more in line with your ideas, alternative, sustainable ways of progression that doesn't warrant a squish over and over.

[dope_danny]

indifferent. Level 1 will always be level 1, max level regardless of number will always be max level. Back when it was 60 that wasn't 'too few' levels or something. It was just when one part of the game stops for a character and another begins. Its not like its some grand achievement to go from 110 to 120 for example. Nobody is like 'wow, what an amazing feat you performed!' its just white noise and a meaningless number. You are max level in WoW or you haven't got there yet. Thats the only way levels matter after you unlock dungeons and bgs.

[Mixxy]

Quicker leveling. A new level would actually feel like a power up as you gain new abilities and such. A completely new player wouldn't feel so discouraged by having to level a whopping 120 levels. <-- that's at least three two big ones.

As for your stat upgrade thing, currently when you level you don't gain any power ups. You just level and keep mowing down the same way all the way through, except things just keep getting slower and slower each level once you go past 110.

-Quicker levelling: Just buff EXP gains. That's quite literally all it takes.
-New levels feeling like big power ups: No. Thanks to level scaling, and the fact that most classes are now designed to have 90% of their toolkit before level 10... that's just incorrect.
-New players being discouraged: That problem would only last for a whole of ten minutes before they realise "Hang on... I'm going up a level like, every two quests. This won't take anywhere near as long as I thought!" In fact, I could argue that that very sensation will leave a player feeling more emboldened to play and level than they would've felt had they just logged on and seen that they need to get to 60.


And as for the second thing, that is solely a problem of level scaling, and a level squish would do exactly nothing to change that. Whether going from 1 to 60, or from 1 to 120... level scaling ensures that the experience would be exactly the same either way.

Look at it this way:
You could take 10 minutes to gain a level, and gain a new skill every four levels, for 120 levels, OR...
You could take 20 minutes to gain a level, and gain a new skill every two levels, for 60 levels.
Either way, the experience is literally unchanged.
And if there's no change, there's no point.