Does it feel like BM hunters are falling off?

[Zapporius]

It doesn't help that the class/spec attracts nimrods. Like my previous raid leader who simmed at 12K and did 8K on fetid normal where we just burn him. No target switching, no knockbacks, nothing. WowAnalyzer showed his uptime on BW was 49% and he couldn't handle barbed buff stacks either. Go figure.

[Mardux]

But there are ones that require soaks and people running to things. BM Hunters do this without losing DPS moving. i.e. Zul. Hunters are good at turtling in them. If an Orb is in a bad spot on Zek? Hunter. Sure, nothing "requires" a hunter but they make life easier on everyone.

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Where did I say stack? Are you just saying things you want and arguing with yourself now? Lol. You quoted me. Bold the word stack in my post.

You quoted them, can you bold where they said you mentioned stacks? Or are you just going out of your way to be combative on the internet?

[Gasparde]

It doesn't help that the class/spec attracts nimrods. Like my previous raid leader who simmed at 12K and did 8K on fetid normal where we just burn him. No target switching, no knockbacks, nothing. WowAnalyzer showed his uptime on BW was 49% and he couldn't handle barbed buff stacks either. Go figure.

Good thing these kinds of players don't play other classes, right?

[Lodvampire]

1). No spec has any real complex rotation these days. Sure, people can argue BM can press abilities on CD and be okay, but this could be said for any spec. Pressing them in correct order increases dps overall, something else that holds true.
2). Nothing really complex in this, but yes, BM has nothing to worry about as they are fully mobile.
3). This only affects mdps, has nothing to do with BM. Moot arguement for all rdps.
4). This again, holds true for all specs. In all honesty, BM has lower CDs and needs to use regular abilities in a specific order and at specific times to maximize potential. Compare to a Aff Lock with a 3 min CD that greatly increases dps vs a BM Hunter with a 1 min Cd (BW), AotW on 2 minutes, and if you want to discuss BS affecting pet attack speed that could count as another and also influences when you start BW.
Stating BM is some brain dead non complex spec is asinine. Not because it is, but because every spec is exactly that. So many people state BM is brain dead but never point out a class that’s harder and why.
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying it’s not an easy spec, I’m simply stating that so is every other spec I’m the game, even by comparison.

Here are just examples of 2 of the 8 bosses of current raid that even BM need to managed their CD's:
1 - you pop AotW with/ or just BW in Vectis and got the add spawnning from you and you got stuned;
2 - same above in Mytrax and you got the purple orb and need to wait someone get you out (sometimes turning you into a pinball)

[ydraw]

Affliction is easier to play than BM and suffers almost no penalty for movement due to how many instant abilities it has. The mobility argument is bunk. BM's problem is scaling, it's already apparent that we are scaling worse than other classes and we aren't even finished with the first raid tier yet.

I play both classes and Affliction is absolutely easier to play than BM, it's far easier to parse high as an Afflock with no experience than it is as BM. At least on single target.

[AnotherJaggens]

Scaling is killing it. It wasn't doing great against MM when simmed at 8.0, after qol improvements and buffs MM is getting in 8.1 it looks dire. Sadly Blizzard can only focus on one spec per class at a time, so we'll have to wait.

[Deleted]

hilarious passive aggressive nonsense.

It is not a pro point of the class. If there is travel time to the add, the pets will be slow. There is no reason to add "quick burst on adds" as a pro.

This being said there is nothing in the current raid that fast target switching is that big of a deal. Mythic Fetid a bit, depending on the spawn area the pet can travel be slow and delay your KC for a bit. Same as any melee switching to that add.

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if you take a pet with masters call you should be removed from the raid as a BM hunter.

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Just going to say: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...s/19#boss=2134

M vectis one of BM hunter worst fights. Leave your anecdotal evidence at the door please. If your doing that much better then your current raid group, i suggest moving on to another group.

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Again there is always pet travel, other classes don't need pet speed mechanics, they just switch and pew pew. There are times on mythic fetid when that add is 30y or more away...and the pet needs to travel a bit before kill command works. Other range can get into position and pew pew.

Note: this is not saying we cannot do it, it is not saying we cannot do good damage. It just should be scene as a pro compared to other range classes that dont need to wait at all.

Genius comment, you bring up Fetid Mythic then say Master's Call on a pet you should be removed. Master's call is probably the quickest way to keep 100% uptime on both boss/adds if you use it properly for target switching

[elcapone]

Scaling is killing it. It wasn't doing great against MM when simmed at 8.0, after qol improvements and buffs MM is getting in 8.1 it looks dire. Sadly Blizzard can only focus on one spec per class at a time, so we'll have to wait.

I feeling the BM dps scaling issue, I went up 5 ilvls 375 to 379, only couple hundred in dps change, and my parse went lower.

Genius comment, you bring up Fetid Mythic then say Master's Call on a pet you should be removed. Master's call is probably the quickest way to keep 100% uptime on both boss/adds if you use it properly for target switching

I just started on fetid, how does master call help? It doesn't increase speed just movement impairing effects? I dont get slowed but the knockback, i am using the silithid pet tho

[Deleted]

I feeling the BM dps scaling issue, I went up 5 ilvls 375 to 379, only couple hundred in dps change, and my parse went lower.



I just started on fetid, how does master call help? It doesn't increase speed just movement impairing effects? I dont get slowed but the knockback, i am using the silithid pet tho

well the early 5% nerf was pretty much our scaling, now its wrecked

[Deleted]

I feeling the BM dps scaling issue, I went up 5 ilvls 375 to 379, only couple hundred in dps change, and my parse went lower.



I just started on fetid, how does master call help? It doesn't increase speed just movement impairing effects? I dont get slowed but the knockback, i am using the silithid pet tho

If you use it on yourself, or macro it to someone that is positioned closer to the add your pet needs to switch to it's pretty much a charge ability, from there you can use your kill command to get it to the add. Kinda like a double charge, just means you can keep near enough 100% uptime on boss.

[Marvin]

Why do people say that BM is the easiest spec to play atm?
One important aspect to having good DPS as BM is to manage the frenzy stacks. You can't have it 100% of the time at 3 stacks, but you need to maximize the time your pet spends with 3 stacks - and that's not that "easy" since you need to balance it with the other CDs, and not miss out on casting certain abilities, all while not missing casting barbed at 0.2s left on 3x frenzy.

Oh, and GCD doesn't help.. but I guess everyone is affected by GCD.

Thanks!

[Deleted]

Why do people say that BM is the easiest spec to play atm?
One important aspect to having good DPS as BM is to manage the frenzy stacks. You can't have it 100% of the time at 3 stacks, but you need to maximize the time your pet spends with 3 stacks - and that's not that "easy" since you need to balance it with the other CDs, and not miss out on casting certain abilities, all while not missing casting barbed at 0.2s left on 3x frenzy.

Oh, and GCD doesn't help.. but I guess everyone is affected by GCD.

Thanks!

Heard this for ages.. i mained Hunter in Legion MM/BM went DH this expansion.. constantly get told how easy that is also (not saying it isn't)

Leveled my hunter (surv and BM), Warrior (arms and fury) and Rogue (outlaw) all have good gear most 360-380

Single target they are all so fucking easy and very similar.. BM has the stacks which requires more thought.. i'd say survival is easier on ST infact!

AOE.. BM/ARMS/Fury/DH and outlaw are super easy.. with Survival being slightly harder to do well

Most people who cry about specs like BM/Havoc etc being easy should play it and maybe they'd do some decent dps for once if it's so easy

As soon as i get a better 2h then my 380 gun i am going survival full time.. BM fell off badly in raids

[Regalosh]

Heard this for ages.. i mained Hunter in Legion MM/BM went DH this expansion.. constantly get told how easy that is also (not saying it isn't)

Leveled my hunter (surv and BM), Warrior (arms and fury) and Rogue (outlaw) all have good gear most 360-380

Single target they are all so fucking easy and very similar.. BM has the stacks which requires more thought.. i'd say survival is easier on ST infact!

AOE.. BM/ARMS/Fury/DH and outlaw are super easy.. with Survival being slightly harder to do well

Most people who cry about specs like BM/Havoc etc being easy should play it and maybe they'd do some decent dps for once if it's so easy

As soon as i get a better 2h then my 380 gun i am going survival full time.. BM fell off badly in raids

I agree survival is more easier on ST, especially if you go with 2x Blur of Talons + Coordinated Assault build, which will yield superior single target damage to Wilderness Infusion Build, than surv becomes even more easier to manage, as you don't even have to care about utilizing the different bombs too. The haste scaling is also insane, I'm at a point where raidbot values agility at 2.01 while my haste is valued at 2.41.

But the aoe... it's just too hectic and even if you have WI, it's just underwhelming. Too much effort put into it, which alone wouldn't be bad at all. I mean it DOES feel good to blow up all those serpent stings with a Volatile bomb. The problem is that usually, that's the only time when surv can do some noticeable aoe dmg. Surv is also too reliant on add stacking and good positioning (if adds are not aligned well).

[Deleted]

Why do people say that BM is the easiest spec to play atm?
One important aspect to having good DPS as BM is to manage the frenzy stacks. You can't have it 100% of the time at 3 stacks, but you need to maximize the time your pet spends with 3 stacks - and that's not that "easy" since you need to balance it with the other CDs, and not miss out on casting certain abilities, all while not missing casting barbed at 0.2s left on 3x frenzy.

Oh, and GCD doesn't help.. but I guess everyone is affected by GCD.

Thanks!

Most people i ran into who play hunter and saying how easy and braindead spec BM is have blue logs. Speaks for itself.

[trapmaster]

It has been like this since bc xpac where bm has been superior at beginning of xpac then slowly fall off halfway of xpac then reek at ending xpac (depends on fights)

[Nythiz]

Why do people say that BM is the easiest spec to play atm?

Because it fuels their insecurities.

It's usually either people who get beaten on dps by a BM; "Oh it's because it's a faceroll 2 button class, so it's only logical I lose from them".
or people who tried BM but sucked hard at it and blame it on the fact they don't want to waste time learning such an "easy spec".

Thing is; I play a lot of dps classes. And there really are next to no specs that are really hard to play.
In fact I probably wouldn't even rank BM in the easiest 5 specs to play at the moment. There is quite a lot you can mess up about BM; there is quite of subtle things you can do to squeeze out a couple of hundred of extra dps. That already makes BM "harder" than half a dozen other specs by default.

[MatthewOU2015]

With the nerfing of secondary stats, I dont think BM is gonna be as bad scaling wise.

[maluwato]

heyyy in my opinion it's half of DPS

[Deleted]

BM aint falling off everyone else is just catching up....same with almost every expansion

[Constraint]

BM aint falling off everyone else is just catching up....same with almost every expansion

Erm.. That's literally the same thing. Unless you believe people here are claiming that BM's dps is actually decreasing with gear? Mmk.

At any rate, I'm just holding out hope that MM will be tuned a little higher, especially for cleave fights. BM's nowhere NEAR as faceroll as people claim. Barbed Shot in itself is a very straight-forward mechanic, and the priority system's pretty simple, but very few people actually time everything to perfection, neither spending too much energy on CS to delay a single second of KC dps, nor ever letting energy cap due to poor prior planning etc.

But it's the input lag that kills the enjoyment of BM for me. I swear, if I see KC trigger one more GCD without actually being cast, I'm going to skewer my pet and instantly reroll Warlock.