Damage and Healing need to be merged into Spell Power

[satella]

That's a pretty significant change. Classes no longer being forced into a role is a fairly significant change to how things were. It also affects who's competing for what gear, which matters more when there are 40 people in a group. Items that were previously for healers suddenly become relevant to DPS classes. This might throw off balance if a few items end up being super good for magi or warlocks once they gain what was previously healing as SP, then suddenly 10 magi can kill Ragnaros in 10 seconds.

You're actually wrong here. There are a lot more Spell Damage items, and most of the good Healing items are class bound.

Also, the healing items don't have any Spell Hit, Spell Crit or reduce resistances.

It would speed up the gearing of healers a bit (if the dps don't need it) and allow them to use more items that are not class bound (like Tier sets).

[Bhanzai]

You should ask yourself why this change is really necessary.

Were bosses killed with +healing and +damage gear? If the answer is yes then no change is needed.

Were classes like paladins, shamans, priests, and druids in raids? If the answer is yes then no change is needed.

[anon5123]

with a 7.3.5 code base

Okay, so there should be LFR and flying mounts and artifact weapons since it's 7.3.5

[Gaidax]

People are freaking out about HP regen values being slightly off and this guy here wants to make what amounts to rebalancing whole vanilla. LUL

[Chaelexi]

Vanilla is Vanilla, what was asked for was Vanilla... Your proposed change would make it Frankenvanilla, the folks dont want Frankenvanilla. They want Vanilla, and they should get EXACTLY Vanilla.

They are already getting Frankenvanilla aka Classic WoW.

[Zigzee]

They are already getting Frankenvanilla aka Classic WoW.

True but no reason to make it worse.

[Akka]

You wanted Classic.

I don't understand people. You want classic but not really classic. Why the fuck do you want it in the first place if you want the fuck modified out of it?

Pretty sure the people who constantly ask for changes aren't the ones who wanted Classic.
Also pretty sure that this exact same thing was already repeated about one million times, so you're very well aware about it and are just pretending to not see the difference.
So it just seems to be anti-Vanilla trolls who try to paint the pro-Vanilla people in a bad light. Soooo... fuck off ?

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Off Topic... Next Watercooler Ion should ask the community if Personal Loot should be added to Classic.

I hope it's a joke ?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

yes, that's one of the downsides... out of many, Vanilla as it was , is crap.
people are going to get sick of the grind and the fact that it was good because it was new, nothing more nothing less.

So dont play? Seems confusing why you care if others do or why unless it was just an attempt to troll. Pretty flat either way.

[Netherblood]

4). Starting at 1.12 at release and upsetting the balance of how things really worked during early dungeon/raid runs.
5). Color blind mode.
6). Anything else upcoming that hasn’t been announced.
Face it, you’re getting Classic, not Vanilla.

Color blind mode was always a given, why would anyone complain about that? Do people just hate people with disabilities?

While I agree its not 100% true experience with 1.12 patch, 1.12 was still part of vanilla at some point while proposed change wasn't at all.

Also I'm not getting anything, since I'm not gonna play it. I play WoW for raiding only, since no other game can compete with Blizzard in that department. I have played since Vanilla, going back to vanilla raids does not interest me, extremely simple dps rotations with mostly simple fights.

[Eapoe]

Color blind mode was always a given, why would anyone complain about that? Do people just hate people with disabilities?

While I agree its not 100% true experience with 1.12 patch, 1.12 was still part of vanilla at some point while proposed change wasn't at all.

Also I'm not getting anything, since I'm not gonna play it. I play WoW for raiding only, since no other game can compete with Blizzard in that department. I have played since Vanilla, going back to vanilla raids does not interest me, extremely simple dps rotations with mostly simple fights.

Sadly there have been people complaining about color blind mode since it wasn’t in vanilla. It’s pretty sad how diehard some people are for no changes that have no impact on gameplay or feels.

[Pieterman]

Idk why you're asking for a downside since the onus is on you to make a good case for changing it. Note that I said good case. Having certain classes be stronger isn't a good case. It'll make healers stronger, so non healers relatively weaker. It also devalues certain items while making others very much sought after.

Rebalancing classes isn't what Classic is about. It's attempting to re-create a philosophy and experience that isn't available anymore. No pixelperfect copy, but no unnecessary gameplay overhauls either.

[Seranthor]

To be fair, they're making a service GMs used to do integrated into the system. That's less of a mechanic change and more of expediting the process, saving time for CS, and making it easier all around.

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Then why are you posting on a section of a fansite about Classic wow how little you care about classic wow? You have to go out of your way to come here.

Nope... not out of my way at all.. .was on the front page... you know the part where it says 'recent forum posts'

[Deleted]

You've been told by the developers that they will not be making these kind of changes. Yet people like you continue to make posts about these changes you want. I'll tell you right now, Classic is not the game you want then. I'm sorry buddy but you'll have to make due with something else.

Also saying no changes is unoriginal, these posts have been made thousands of times. It's not going to happen.

[satella]

Idk why you're asking for a downside since the onus is on you to make a good case for changing it. Note that I said good case. Having certain classes be stronger isn't a good case. It'll make healers stronger, so non healers relatively weaker. It also devalues certain items while making others very much sought after.

Rebalancing classes isn't what Classic is about. It's attempting to re-create a philosophy and experience that isn't available anymore. No pixelperfect copy, but no unnecessary gameplay overhauls either.

No, the onus is on you good people to counter my arguments with some sound logic, since that's the reason I'm doing this. Having these ideas in a vacuum isn't as satisfying because there can always be something that I have missed, or didn't give enough weight in my calculations.

Lets take a priest for example, since he can only use Cloth. With my suggestions he can, with some effort (time, money, materials), switch into a Damage Affinity, so that he gets the normal amount of Spell Damage from all items with Spell Power, and the same amount to Spell Healing, just like if that item had Damage and Healing on it. This means his Pants of Prophecy (https://classicdb.ch/?item=16814) that would normally have 22 healing on it, would provide around 12 Damage and Healing (22/1.8) in the Damage Affinity. At the same time, if he were to choose a Healing Affinity, his Mantle of Prophecy (https://classicdb.ch/?item=16816), that would normally have 9 Damage and Healing on it, would provide around 16 Spell Healing (9*1.8).

The number 1.8 is the relative worth of Spell Damage and Healing to Spell Healing, according to a normal item budget.

This would allow Hybrids (Paladins, Priests, Druids, Shamans) to choose increased Healing, or increased Damage not through having to obtain nearly twice the amount of items as a Pure but only through a switch. How hard flipping that switch would be is entirely up for discussion, I personally think it would have to have a cooldown of at least 12 hours, along with a Gold cost and maybe a cost of Materials.

The few items that have just Spell Healing on them in the current iteration would not be as useful to Pures since most of them are Class bound, have no Spell Crit or Hit, and most likely have Mp5, which has a high cost in the item budget. On the other hand, the Spell Crit on items that currently have only Spell Damage and Healing would be useful to healers like Paladins for example. Very few healing items have Spell Crit on them.

I hope this clears things up for you.

[Airlick]

as the rest of this subforum will tell you, if you make changes like this then it is no longer vanilla wow. would a change like this help the game? certainly, thats why they did it. like 11 years ago during TBC. but thats not the game youre playing here.

Pretty sure TBC still had separate healing and damage spell power (I remember enchants had more healing power than damage, for one), and even in WotLK gear was still quite heavily itemized for use for either healers or casters. It was much easier to get by without role specific gear since WotLK, but you were still quite heavily handicapped.

On topic, this one change would make Classic Vanilla Remastered and would change absolutely everything about how the game was played. So no, it would never happen.

[Teleros]

It's not a huge change, but it would allow Paladins, Druids, Shamans and Priests more freedom in gear selection.

Yes it is a huge change, and the fact that you haven't seen why... oh boy.

Lets face it, they barely had a clue regarding the item budgets and stat allocation in Vanilla, they were always changing things around and in later patches had to give casters more Spell Damage items, since most only had basic attributes.

What was true then is not true now.

We all know hybrids do not have the capability to compete with the pures in regards to damage, so giving them items that can be used for both healing and damage won't break anything.

doublefacepalm.jpg

There is the ripple effect to consider with this change, and how it could ultimately lead to other changes, that is a factor.

Put it this way: having played a pally back in vanilla, there's a ton I'd love to change to make a Better Vanilla(TM) experience... but ultimately it just won't be the vanilla experience. That ripple effect you just dismiss as "a factor" is actually pretty huge - I mean, Blizzard will almost certainly be putting out new patches for their classic servers to fix bugs and such, even if balance is left unaffected... a change like this guarantees months and months of class balance work, with the associated patches and all the rest. I think I'd rather they use that dev time to work on TBC servers or w/e TBH.

[tikcol]

People are freaking out about HP regen values being slightly off and this guy here wants to make what amounts to rebalancing whole vanilla. LUL

Not slightly.. HP regen is at least double and mana regen is more than double

[satella]

Yes it is a huge change, and the fact that you haven't seen why... oh boy.


What was true then is not true now.


doublefacepalm.jpg


Put it this way: having played a pally back in vanilla, there's a ton I'd love to change to make a Better Vanilla(TM) experience... but ultimately it just won't be the vanilla experience. That ripple effect you just dismiss as "a factor" is actually pretty huge - I mean, Blizzard will almost certainly be putting out new patches for their classic servers to fix bugs and such, even if balance is left unaffected... a change like this guarantees months and months of class balance work, with the associated patches and all the rest. I think I'd rather they use that dev time to work on TBC servers or w/e TBH.

You're not quite getting the Damage and Healing affinity part.

Healers won't get any stronger, they'll just not have to farm two sets of gear for damage and healing. They will be able to change into an Affinity suited to their needs where they get either Damage and Healing from items, or only Healing.

It's quite simple. I explained it in more detail in another response, read that please.

[Lumineus]

A lot of high end gear was already like this. Well, depending on the particularities of what build it is. I remember them trying to change Judgement Armor from str/spellpower to pure int/+healing in a bid to prop Paladin healers up in Naxx without ruining their BG experience by changing the Ret-oriented AQ40 gear. There was a small riot.

[Pieterman]

No, the onus is on you good people to counter my arguments with some sound logic,

-snip-

I hope this clears things up for you.

Nothing needs to be cleared up. You're arguing for changes to rebalance a recreation of an old game. Look up the word recreation. The entire point of Classic is to make it as close to 1.12.1 as possible, not change things because you dont like them.

Idk how you could possibly think that "we" need to convince you that your suggestions are unnecessary. Its not a bad idea, thats why it was done that way in TBC. Its just not vanilla.