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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivinara View Post
    Doomhammer challenged Blackhand to mak'gora so I wouldn't call him a traitor. The rest are traitors, but, depending on your views and who you support, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    Edit: Didn't see Cairne was in there. He challenged Garrosh to mak'gora so he isn't a traitor either.
    That would be what the REAL Saurfang would have done. Not this Alliance boot-licker. Cairne challenged Garrosh without giving a crap about anything else and his death counted to the turning of the Horde against Garrosh.

    But I suppose they couldn't just copy Garrosh's villain story down to the last details, still it would have made a better story than what this abomination that is called Saurfang has been turned into.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    He is a coward (tried to commit suicide twice, then asked Anduin to deal with Sylvanas becasue he is a bitch), and refused to stand up to Sylvanas despite apparently disagreeing with her post Tree burning.

    He betrayed the horde by not killing Malfurion or Anduin, resulting in countless more deaths, as he had a chance to kill 2 leaders effectively dealing a massive blow to Alliance leadership. Why didn't he do it? because of some bullshit honor HE felt (not even like either were unarmed, or not on a battlefield, both times the leaders were fighting the Horde). He values HIS honor above the lives of everyone else on the horde, and for that he can go fuck himself, is a selfish whiny bitch, and a traitor.
    Agreed. Saurfang is the personification of what is wrong with the Horde, actively accepting weakness and going OUT OF THE WAY to be a crybaby. It's outright TREASON what he does and he has been actively sabotaging the Horde this entire time. He deserves to be drawn, quartered, and publically executed as an example of his dishonor for the Horde.

  3. #143
    Herald of the Titans Sluvs's Avatar
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    For me at least, it's not that he is a traitor. The problem, for me, it's that he is the alliance approved traitor. The alliance is quite literally approving a future leader, interfering directly in the horde leadership. At best he is working with the enemy, at worst he is working for the enemy. And that is my problem.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    LMAO, you seem to be ALL ABOUT THE LORE. However, now that it's against you "oh, it's a screw up." Convenient, isn't it?. It looks like you don't play a Shaman, at all.
    I already gave you a source, if you want to directly ignore the lore of the Doomhammer questline and call it a "lore hiccup", that's your issue. You have your "proof" right there in front of you and I can BET you'll ignore it again.
    Bro... The real reason the elements have abandoned Thrall is that Chris Metzen retired from Blizzard. This is 100% canon.

  5. #145
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    He is a traitor.
    you forgot an "S" in front.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by your mother View Post
    you forgot an "S" in front.
    He is a straitor.

  7. #147
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    He is a straitor.
    She is a traitor.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by your mother View Post
    She is a traitor.
    Between Sylvanas and Saurfang only one of these is being pushed and essentially backed by the Alliance.
    I wonder which one...

    I'm sorry, but if you want Saurfang to be Warchief, then you're more Alliance than Horde.

  9. #149
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    Between Sylvanas and Saurfang only one of these is being pushed and essentially backed by the Alliance.
    I wonder which one...

    I'm sorry, but if you want Saurfang to be Warchief, then you're more Alliance than Horde.
    You don't know what it means to be Horde if you support her, Saurfang is the living embodiment of the Horde.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    I think people feel like he betrayed the Horde because he only left his cell when Anduin implied he needs Saurfang's help and not when the Horde player finds him. That was probably the biggest mistake in this entire story. And even if some choose to look past that there's still the issue that it seems like another MoP repeat. You can defend Saurfang all you want right now, I think people already made up their minds.
    Oh, I said at Blizzcon when they announced this expansion it was going to be an MoP repeat because there's no other choice outside of no victor and perpetually having this at the center of every expansion going forward. People are definitely right to feel sour about that, imo.

  11. #151
    One mans traitor is another mans patriot.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Druuge View Post
    One mans traitor is another mans patriot.
    Agreed! Honorfang is a traitor the horde, and a patriot of the alliance.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    Between Sylvanas and Saurfang only one of these is being pushed and essentially backed by the Alliance.
    I wonder which one...

    I'm sorry, but if you want Saurfang to be Warchief, then you're more Alliance than Horde.
    Sometimes your greatest enemy isn't across the battlefield, but right there within your ranks. It's odd that so many Horde players think the leader who has absolutely no care for the living and is purely interested solely in self preservation and converting all life into undead under her own command is the one they should offer their complete and total subservience.

    I don't see anyone claiming the Horde at large are traitors for standing against Nerzhul. Not much difference between Sylvanas' ultimate goals and the Lich King's. You have plenty of canonical text indicating Sylvanas' direct thoughts state she is not loyal to the Horde and sees them more as pawns and tools for her own designs.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Oh, I said at Blizzcon when they announced this expansion it was going to be an MoP repeat because there's no other choice outside of no victor and perpetually having this at the center of every expansion going forward. People are definitely right to feel sour about that, imo.
    There might be. Still it's not the first time Blizzard lied to us, they did it with Garrosh before so I wouldn't be too surprised if they just throw MoP 2 in our face and never talk about it again. However I still suspect that the whole MoP picture is just a diversion and if I were to guess, I think the Horde will lose, Sylvanas will escape somehow, not killed and before Anduin declares world peace and love between all races, the Alliance start fucking up the Horde trying to wipe them out because, well at this point, common sense and that kinda breaks the deal and the Horde underdogs unite again cause, common sense beats "my honor". But I'm shit at predicting stuff.

  15. #155
    I guess MMO-Champion should have done Horde/Alliance confirmation before BFA to make such topics pure for discussion, because there are too many alliance prosaurfang players here.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by your mother View Post
    You don't know what it means to be Horde if you support her, Saurfang is the living embodiment of the Horde.
    HAHAHA! An Alliance CUCK is the embodiment of the Horde! Good one.

    Saurfang is acting DIRECTLY against the Horde and is backed by the Alliance. If you can't understand how OBVIOUS that is, then either you're Alliance or you don't understand at all what Horde is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostone View Post
    I guess MMO-Champion should have done Horde/Alliance confirmation before BFA to make such topics pure for discussion, because there are too many alliance prosaurfang players here.
    That much is obvious. Saurfang directly fractures and seeks to ruin the Horde. OF COURSE ALLIANCE WOULD BACK HIM!.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Druuge View Post
    One mans traitor is another mans patriot.
    Considering that Saurfang is working for the Alliance in order to benefit the Alliance, I'd say he's more Alliance than Alliance heroes.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    HAHAHA! An Alliance CUCK is the embodiment of the Horde! Good one.

    Saurfang is acting DIRECTLY against the Horde and is backed by the Alliance. If you can't understand how OBVIOUS that is, then either you're Alliance or you don't understand at all what Horde is.
    Hypothetical: If Sylvanas blighted Orgrimmar so she could turn all Horde members into undead, would that be working in favor or against the Horde?

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Hypothetical: If Sylvanas blighted Orgrimmar so she could turn all Horde members into undead, would that be working in favor or against the Horde?
    False Equivalence. Under the concept of equity, if Orgimmar was killed off in an Alliance raid, then using the bodies to raise and fight for their home once again is arguably what Sylvanas does. Source: Alliance Assault on the Undercity.

    Dead bodies can't fight for the Horde unless they're raised. This is what Sylvanas does, granting greater glory and honor to those that fell actually for the Horde or innocents killed by Alliance to exact justice on their murderers.

    Killing the population of Orgimmar for no reason makes no sense and is an outright fallacy.

  19. #159
    A few things to consider:
    1) Sylvanas is a >female< leader. Now I know that the internet is full of white males in their mid to late twenties(often cited to be typical serial-killer attributes, but that's no longer true), and feminism isn't very strong in most of them, but a female faction leader is a good thing from a gender equality perspective. I think a consistent female leading role in wow wouldn't be too bad. After all diablo is now female, too.
    2) If you prefer Orcs over Undeads, or if you're into painting a world white vs black, of course you can like Saurfang. He IS after all the honorable white knight choice. I'd really prefer to see a 50-shades-of-grey-Sylvanas though(No, I don't want her to meet Christian Grey and start being into bdsm), where her motives are somewhat shady and she's neither all-good nor all-evil.
    3) The cinematic STRONGLY implies(especially by the opened door in the end), that Saurfang is gonna help Anduin in defeating Sylvie. Which would a) pretty much repeat the Garrosh-story-arc and b) imho suck, as the faction-internal quarrel in the horde should be adressed within the horde, not by some whimsy cry baby Anduin
    4) Why is the succession in the alliance so consistent and the horde one is not? Another conflict about the leadership of the horde is unnecessary and annoying.
    Last edited by Grmmppff; 2018-11-06 at 11:18 PM.

  20. #160
    Salty Feline Overlord Beerbill Society's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    LMAO, you seem to be ALL ABOUT THE LORE. However, now that it's against you "oh, it's a screw up." Convenient, isn't it?. It looks like you don't play a Shaman, at all.
    I already gave you a source, if you want to directly ignore the lore of the Doomhammer questline and call it a "lore hiccup", that's your issue. You have your "proof" right there in front of you and I can BET you'll ignore it again.
    Idk why you are upset about it, I couldn't find any source of it just a few forum posts where people speculate this theory but no confirmation whatsoever.

    I did the quest of Doomhammer but I can't remember anything being said about that (I may be mistaken).

    But given the lore we have set, this doesn't make sense, even if Thrall "forced" the elements in AU Nagrand why the Azeroth elements would stop heading his call? Specially if it was to avenge their forced servitude. Is he a shaman no longer? The elements care about orcsh traditions? Or is Thrall himself that choose to never use them because he feels dishonorable?

    They did a lot of a screw ups in WoD and they do acknowledge it, also Metzen needed a reason to leave so it may be plausible to something stupidly forced as this really happened.

    People get way to much sentimental because of a fried orc, Jesus.


    -Update-

    Here found to you since you struggled so much, there nothing in the quest, this is one of the books sharing the weapon history (book 10):

    SPOILER *it have nothing to do with elementals or even honor*

    "Through the years, Thrall wielded the Doomhammer with honor and integrity. However, following his execution of the malign warchief Garrosh Hellscream, Thrall felt conflicted. This internal struggle was reflected in the Doomhammer as well. In Thrall's mind, the weapon that had embodied the ideals of justice and virtue had now come to represent vengeance. "

    You are welcome :3
    Last edited by Beerbill Society; 2018-11-07 at 12:26 AM.


    "... And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers, and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee." - Ezekiel 25:17


    "My name is Legion: for we are many." - Mark 5:9
    My characters :3

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