Why aren't any of the Horde characters DOING anything?

[Knslyr]

Lorthemar during siege of orgrimmar: "Just dare to raise at least ONE of my troops and I will cut you down myself now".
Lorthemar during BFA like lapdog following orders of Sylvanas and Nathanos: "With pleasure blightcaller".

Hey one of my favorite characters in WoW became a mindless puppet He also seem not to mind sylvanas using plague and raising horde members as undead, I guess sunwell viatnamese flashbacks do not disturb them any longer.

He just cared about his troops. He didn't object when Sylvanas asked about the alliance troops.
What was he supposed to object to during that scene? Blightcaller just asked him to get the archers in position.. he was supposed to say no and just let the alliance come in and kill them, inlcluding himself?

Outside the Ruins of Lordaeron she just seems to reanimate their skeletons. And not ressurect them as forsaken.

[dreamfillah]

The problem isn't that they're not doing anything in 8.1, but rather that no one has said anything ever since Teldrassil went poof, other than Saurfang.

The Horde leadership are responsible by compliance for the Teldrassil genocide, which makes them all look like a cavalcade of hypocrites when Derek getting raised is what breaks the camel's back for them.

[Deleted]

I think from the perspective of the other Horde leaders, all Sylvanas has really done so far is use blight in Undercity and burn Teldrassil. Which, yeah, was a dick move, but she was only destroying her own capital and committing a taboo by trying to raise friendly corpses as skeletons. She hasn't done anything Garrosh-worthy yet. They didn't see what she did at the meeting with Anduin, and she killed anyone who could have passed the word on. Nathanos isn't going to say anything, he's on her side. They also didn't see what happened at the burning of Teldrassil, so for all we know she's telling the others it was a necessity of war.

The other thing to keep in mind is that canonically, the Horde is an *army*, made up of grunts and soldiers and generals of all races, and some of them are *fiercely* loyal to the Horde itself, to the point where they will follow their warchief through literally anything. The others may be dissatisfied with Sylvanas' leadership, but they don't yet know who would follow them in a coup and who wouldn't.

[Niroshi]

Because we get 1 hour of story every 4 months and they need to leave something for future patches.

[ls-]

Because for the most part her actions don't really hurt the Horde, sure, she got few of Horde troops blighted, but it's a much better outcome than outright losing to the Alliance, even Saurfang understood that because he couldn't provide a better option, the only alternative was to go full "victory or death!" and actually die.

So what do you want other Horde leader to do? Tell her that she's hurting the Alliance too badly, eh? Her actions might not be honourable, but they get things done.

Now, imagine having Mathias Shaw as your High King, what a glorious battle of dishonourable bastards that would be, that's my kind of AvH war, oh well...

[Deleted]

Because for the most part her actions don't really hurt the Horde, sure, she got few of Horde troops blighted, but it's a much better outcome than outright losing to the Alliance, even Saurfang understood that because he couldn't provide a better option, the only alternative was to go full "victory or death!" and actually die.

So what do you want other Horde leader to do? Tell her that she's hurting the Alliance too badly, eh? Her actions might not be honourable, but they get things done.

Now, imagine having Mathias Shaw as your High King, what a glorious battle of dishonourable bastards that would be, that's my kind of AvH war, oh well...

I've honestly been hoping for Anduin to be either killed or incapacitated and Genn to take over leading the Alliance. Now THAT would be a war to see.

[Tyron]

Lorthemar during siege of orgrimmar: "Just dare to raise at least ONE of my troops and I will cut you down myself now".
Lorthemar during BFA like lapdog following orders of Sylvanas and Nathanos: "With pleasure blightcaller".

Hey one of my favorite characters in WoW became a mindless puppet He also seem not to mind sylvanas using plague and raising horde members as undead, I guess sunwell viatnamese flashbacks do not disturb them any longer. I actually gave up on it long time ago, Blizzard stopped caring about their characters except just a few. Baine being a punching bag, Saurfang instead of challenging Sylvanas to MakGora or something, he hides in Alliance jail in "hopes" of Anduin defeating her????, Lorthemar from independant regent lord, a marvellous strategist, who cares so much about his people, becomes a mindless slave. It's also funny how they said Sylvanas is not Garrosh 2.0 but during Blizzcon stated that Garrosh was an amateur...Morally grey storytelling my ass.

I just finished playing Thronebreaker and am amazed how CDPR could develop even the smallest characters and make them unique and prominent to the stroy. I guess someone can learn a few lessons or two.

I get your frustration because Lor'Themar is one of my favorite characters, but look at the context of both scenarios. In the SoO Sylvanas wasn't warchief and was about to raise Lor'Themar troops, and in UC Sylvanas is Warchief and Nathanos just tells Lor'themar to take positions in the rooftops to watch their backs. You can't really compare the two.

Also, Thronebreaker is a new (an amazing, can't get enough of it lol) game with new characters. Most Warcraft characters are decades old and have been written by different people.

[ls-]

I've honestly been hoping for Anduin to be either killed or incapacitated and Genn to take over leading the Alliance. Now THAT would be a war to see.

Dunno, I don't really like Genn. Mathias Shaw, on the other hand, openly doesn't care about honour and sees it as a hindrance, just like Sylvanas. They both prefer the end justifies the means approach.

And we both know that Anduin won't die or be dethroned for a long long time.

[Knslyr]

Nobody would care to dethrone Sylvanas except Baine and Saurfang though. Lor'themar would probably try to join the Alliance again, Gallywix will follow whoever pays the most, and Talanji, Geya'rah, Thalyssra and Mayla are all too new to the Horde to lead a rebellion. The Trolls don't really have any leader right now, the closest would probably be Rhokkan and he's just like all the new allied race leaders, not important enough to rally the whole Horde against its Warchief.

I think there is plenty of people. Such as Rokhan, Voss, Garona, and Lor'themar. And it doesn't even have to be a united rebellion to dethrone her, if all stand in defiance and riots breaks out then her Horde will fall apart. But I hope Sylvanas keeps the title of Warchief throughout the expansion and leave the position somehow the following expansion. She delivers some interesting plots and for the first time ever capital cities have been lost.
I don't think the blood elfs will ever go down the path to even consider joining the alliance again. The last time was most likely used as a plot to cement them as Horde.

Whatever happens I hope Baine and Saurfang kicks the bucket though. Baina was never a good character, and Saurfang is getting tiresome.

[Yatagarasu]

He just cared about his troops. He didn't object when Sylvanas asked about the alliance troops.
What was he supposed to object to during that scene? Blightcaller just asked him to get the archers in position.. he was supposed to say no and just let the alliance come in and kill them, inlcluding himself?

Outside the Ruins of Lordaeron she just seems to reanimate their skeletons. And not ressurect them as forsaken.

I didn't say he did something wrong during the siege(Since conflict is already ongoing). I'm talking about his general attitude towards the war and using methods of mass destruction such as plague and destroying citiess with countless innocent people. Why did he say "With pleasure, Blightcaller?" did he enjoy murdering alliance members with plague after helping Sylvanas burn the whole ancient city? Why wasn't anyone objecting the meaningless war? Especially Lorthemar, his city is the only city besides Lordaeron on a basically enemy continent, the war would easily destroy Silvermoon if alliance decides to march forward, and they will, I feel they will make Silvermoon a warfront or some shit. He would never accept that, again, like I said, Blizzard doesn't know how to develop multiple characters at the same time, they always focus on a few while other do nothing. To my surprise even Saurfang said nothing, only because of emergency after that disgusting cutscene with burning of Teldrassil they released a cinematic to soften the blow. They had great pace during MoP to explain why other races didn't object Garrosh at first, since he went mad and more reckless with each patch and not in the beginning. But Sylvanas did basically same if not worse things already, and nobody cares much. And we are talking about a leader of blood elves who wanted to go back to alliance during Garrosh's tenure as a warchief. But now they made a bs excuse because of void elves for BE not to join Alliance aswell.

[Noomz]

If Baine and so many others oppose what Sylvanas is doing with Derek, why aren't they stopping her?

Blizz hasn't displayed her as having more clout than usual with the Horde, while with Garrosh they drew attention to the fact that all through Cata he had support from tauren and trolls despite being 'orcs first'.

Garrosh controlled the orcs, Orgrimmar and the majority of the Horde's military with it.

Sylvanas, even if she has Gallywix's support, has no infrastructure with UC being blown up, her people are displaced, she has no more leverage than any of the rest of the Horde leader's actually give her.

Vol'jin is working on figuring out who did what and why. While we all know that it's Helya that made Sylvanas warchief. Helya is still around and her pact with Sylvanas alogn with her.

[Deleted]

To my surprise even Saurfang said nothing, only because of emergency after that disgusting cutscene with burning of Teldrassil they released a cinematic to soften the blow.

Honest question, how long to you think it takes to create those cinematics? It's highly unlikely they made this on the fly as a response as opposed to having been producing and planning it long before the Teldrassil attack.

[Sorshen]

I like it. It's quickly demonstrating who is REAL Horde and who's an Alliance wannabe (or fake Horde player).

I joined the Horde to play Thrall's Horde post-Founding of Durotar, not this retarded shit writing that's teeming with self-inserts and Sylvanas plot armor masturbation. Spare us the 'fake Horde' bullshit.

[Yatagarasu]

Honest question, how long to you think it takes to create those cinematics? It's highly unlikely they made this on the fly as a response as opposed to having been producing and planning it long before the Teldrassil attack.

There was a 10 second moment about Saurfang saying "They will come for us now, all of them". If you cut this moment from cinematic it changes nothing, just highlights the mistakes or previous cutscene at teldrasil. I think they deliberately added that to the cinematic as a safety pillow. Either that or they are really bad at pacing and presenting what they want, if they really thought players will tolerate Baine and Saurfang silently agreeing with Sylvanas and watching Teldrassil burn. But tbh nothing surprises me after Diablo Immortals announcement.

[Wildberry]

I joined the Horde to play Thrall's Horde post-Founding of Durotar, not this retarded shit writing that's teeming with self-inserts and Sylvanas plot armor masturbation. Spare us the 'fake Horde' bullshit.

Hey, now you know how WCII fans have felt under every Warchief but Garrosh.

[Magnagarde]

What can they do? Open opposition would see them branded as traitors and would get them killed sooner than later. Most of them can't afford to lose Horde support at this stage of war against the Alliance either.

Say, if Baine decided to fight Sylvanas over Derek's resurrection right then and there, do you think boytoy Nathanos and the Valkyr wouldn't have joined the fray? Most importantly, it would openly split the Horde in what is the biggest faction war to date in the MMO's timeline. By starting the war, Sylvanas not only plunged the Horde into open war with the Alliance, but she also conditioned them all to stick by her heel.

[Aeula]

Because High King Anduin Wrynn, first of his name has only permitted Saurfang to act on his behalf. Not Baine or anyone else.

You can't expect Horde characters to act without the consent of the High King of the Alliance.

[Super Dickmann]

Because the Horde are sockpuppets here to service Anduin's narrative, wherein the God-King's prophet Saurfang teaches us all how to be honorable and how war is bad in the war expansion.

[Deleted]

Horde is supposed to fuel the conflict if there aren't any bad guys to kill. That's their only purpose. Take a look at the previous expansion when there wasn't any conflict. I'd take a look up at the Zenedar and see how many Horde aligned people you see up at the stairs and after the Antorus raid.

Literally 0.

[ls-]

Because the Horde are sockpuppets here to service Anduin's narrative, wherein the God-King's prophet Saurfang teaches us all how to be honorable and how war is bad in the war expansion.

Eh? It's obvious that being an Ally puppet is more honourable than being an independent nation that needs no human potential. IDK what your problem is...