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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Charles View Post
    Stop lobbying for your braindead class. Bestkeystone.com shows havoc to be by far the best pick in every dungeon on almost all affixes. And on every stream of world first pushers you will see the DH topping overall, and even bossfights, as crit/mastery assas (for dungeons) and frostmages have even less ST than Havoc. Havoc was crazy good since day 1 BfA and was the only dps spec that dodged tuning hotfixes (except 1 trait nerf), for whatever reason.

    If you get out dps'ed by an assassin I can assure you that this is a you-problem. Havoc deserves a really big hit on their dps, the (reverted) eye beam nerf doesn't even beginn to bring this busted spec in line.
    Frustrated Assa Rogue or Arms Warrior?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Charles View Post
    Stop lobbying for your braindead class. Bestkeystone.com shows havoc to be by far the best pick in every dungeon on almost all affixes. And on every stream of world first pushers you will see the DH topping overall, and even bossfights, as crit/mastery assas (for dungeons) and frostmages have even less ST than Havoc. Havoc was crazy good since day 1 BfA and was the only dps spec that dodged tuning hotfixes (except 1 trait nerf), for whatever reason.

    If you get out dps'ed by an assassin I can assure you that this is a you-problem. Havoc deserves a really big hit on their dps, the (reverted) eye beam nerf doesn't even beginn to bring this busted spec in line.
    Go back to LFR.

    And when you feel like learning to play and learning where to get your information instead of going to Noxxic-like sites, try watching streams of top players pushing high keys. Of course DH is up there among the strongest, but that is because it's the strength of the class. Just because dungeons happen to favor that playstyle perfectly, doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class.

    Also I'm actually laughing my ass off at what you said about Assa rogues. You're actually clueless to the core.

    Look, I'm sorry your class is not viable. That's not my fault. Please don't get hurt or upset, okay? Go watch some DrJay/Speed/Seliathan/Naowh and you'll learn much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post

    Eyebeams is core to our rotation and play style. It isn't needed. What is needed is Nerf feel barrage. Sure I can do 60k on trash but if I take barrage that is more like 90k.
    Fel Barrage is a talent though. It's not a core part of your spellbook. If you take it, you don't take ToR which reduces your boss damage and gives you much more burst at the expense of consistent cleave.
    Last edited by Synthium; 2018-11-08 at 11:14 AM.
    Burn it. BURN IT!

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post
    Go back to LFR.
    And when you feel like learning to play and learning where to get your information instead of going to Noxxic-like sites, try watching streams of top players pushing high keys. Of course DH is up there among the strongest, but that is because it's the strength of the class. Just because dungeons happen to favor that playstyle perfectly, doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class.
    I presented you data of keys that were listed on the leaderboards, which is the only thing that the site evaluates (very fitting noxxic comparison... sums up your level of knowledge). And I mentioned the streams if you could actually read. You on the other hand have nothing but your meaningless opinion. My class is very viable in m+, its just that yours is even better and I want to see it nerfed. And this is exactly whats gonna happen. They reverted the aoe burst nerfs only for the reason of everyone getting 3 new class specific traits in 8.1. They will look at how that will play out and this time havoc is definetely gonna be on the radar.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post



    Fel Barrage is a talent though. It's not a core part of your spellbook. If you take it, you don't take ToR which reduces your boss damage and gives you much more burst at the expense of consistent cleave.
    yeah but its the only talent to take for many bosses in uldir, and the only talent to take for m+ Its probably the strongest aoe spell in the game. Combine with eyebeams, probably one of top 5 aoe spells in the game, maybe even top 3. Blade Dance/Deathsweep (so strong you use it on ST) and fel rush, vengeful retreat, chaos nova. We are aoe centric.

    My DH is only 358 and I can literally gather as many mobs as I want to in the world, or am capable of man training and aoe them all down with a few globals and end up back at near 95+% health.

    The only characters that ever compete with my toon on aoe either drastically outgear me (20+ ilvl) or are mages or dhs. Mages and DHs both need to be brought in line with warriors on aoe. Other classes need to be brought up some.

    Demon Hunters need buffs to ST. Only way I can keep up with mages on Bosses is to find as many cleave opportunities as possible.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Charles View Post
    I presented you data of keys that were listed on the leaderboards, which is the only thing that the site evaluates (very fitting noxxic comparison... sums up your level of knowledge). And I mentioned the streams if you could actually read. You on the other hand have nothing but your meaningless opinion. My class is very viable in m+, its just that yours is even better and I want to see it nerfed. And this is exactly whats gonna happen. They reverted the aoe burst nerfs only for the reason of everyone getting 3 new class specific traits in 8.1. They will look at how that will play out and this time havoc is definetely gonna be on the radar.
    Your class is viable it's just that mine is better so you want to see it nerfed so your class is then on top? Your salt is pouring through at an alarming rate. You obviously haven't been paying close attention to aforementioned streams because if you did, you'd know that Havoc is on top just as often as Assa, just as often as Frost (both mage and DK), just as often as Unholy (when in some rare occassions they take it).

    Havoc is "OP" in M+ because it mostly consists of frequent pulls of large clumps of mobs usually gripped together by DK tank so they are all hit by EB, which is followed by 8 seconds of really solid cleave in demon form. M+ FAVORS that fucking playstyle. In raids on ST we aren't on top except in fights when you can hit the boss with large packs of mobs every 30 seconds (thus being similar to M+ scenarios).

    You are just whining because your class is supposedly worse than mine without saying what it is because you're afraid I'm gonna make fun of you that you can't outdps Havoc in dungeons. I'm sorry but we are not OVERPOWERED, we are very good in certain situations that happen to be highlights in nowadays meta, and apart from your websites, you don't seem to pay attention to other things whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post
    yeah but its the only talent to take for many bosses in uldir, and the only talent to take for m+ Its probably the strongest aoe spell in the game.
    If you play with Fel Barrage for many bosses in Uldir you're doing it wrong. It's also the talent you take in M+ if you want to pad. I'm sorry but your item level also gives away you're not very experienced.

    Check out Naowh for some good Havoc M+ action and you'll see that most of the times he plays Trail of Ruin when pushing keys. Also quick glance at warcraftlogs and you'll see that Trail of Ruin is the most often specced talent for raids aswell.
    Burn it. BURN IT!

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post
    Your class is viable it's just that mine is better so you want to see it nerfed so your class is then on top? Your salt is pouring through at an alarming rate. You obviously haven't been paying close attention to aforementioned streams because if you did, you'd know that Havoc is on top just as often as Assa, just as often as Frost (both mage and DK), just as often as Unholy (when in some rare occassions they take it).
    Listen, I did not read what you wrote because its a waste of time. You are wrong and you know it. The only reason you sit here trying excuse havoc's opness is because you want to stay in that sweet spot. Havoc is by far the strongest dps in m+ but don't worry, it will soon be over.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post
    Your class is viable it's just that mine is better so you want to see it nerfed so your class is then on top? Your salt is pouring through at an alarming rate. You obviously haven't been paying close attention to aforementioned streams because if you did, you'd know that Havoc is on top just as often as Assa, just as often as Frost (both mage and DK), just as often as Unholy (when in some rare occassions they take it).

    Havoc is "OP" in M+ because it mostly consists of frequent pulls of large clumps of mobs usually gripped together by DK tank so they are all hit by EB, which is followed by 8 seconds of really solid cleave in demon form. M+ FAVORS that fucking playstyle. In raids on ST we aren't on top except in fights when you can hit the boss with large packs of mobs every 30 seconds (thus being similar to M+ scenarios).

    You are just whining because your class is supposedly worse than mine without saying what it is because you're afraid I'm gonna make fun of you that you can't outdps Havoc in dungeons. I'm sorry but we are not OVERPOWERED, we are very good in certain situations that happen to be highlights in nowadays meta, and apart from your websites, you don't seem to pay attention to other things whatsoever.



    If you play with Fel Barrage for many bosses in Uldir you're doing it wrong. It's also the talent you take in M+ if you want to pad. I'm sorry but your item level also gives away you're not very experienced.

    Check out Naowh for some good Havoc M+ action and you'll see that most of the times he plays Trail of Ruin when pushing keys. Also quick glance at warcraftlogs and you'll see that Trail of Ruin is the most often specced talent for raids aswell.
    You are a dumb mother fucker if you think ilvl is expierence. I've been raiding since molten core. Did mc ony zg bwl and aq 40 in classicm. Raided till bt in vanilla and raided heroics through mop. Most of my friends left in mop and I've been raid leading casual groups since then. Cleared both sets of challenge modes when you couldn't just over gear stuff to beat a timer.

    All my item level says is I don't raid heroic on my dh which is an alt. So get your shit straight before you pop off at the mouth

    As for trail, yes it is superior in uldir for most fights. Still got 2-3 fights where it will push you over boomies and mages. Can't say for rogues as we don't bring one on the alt run.we need a couple but only 2 people play them in the guild and the both get taken for main run.

    And just so we're clear the good players in the top percentiles are not a valid representation of the massed pushing mid to low keys. most of the people complaining about DHS only see normal and 0-10 keys. If they even manage to get out of the 4-8 prison of garbage players trying to outgear m+ and/or be carried. Those DHS don't maintain an 80+% on blade sweep.if you aren't hitting sweep/dance every 7-7.5s you are loosing value. Then barrage starts to be more valuable.

    The problems just comppind with demonic, every thing we do in demon form cleaves or is aoe. We only have two spells that don't cleave and one of those does in demon form.
    Last edited by Playintrafic; 2018-11-08 at 03:20 PM.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Charles View Post
    Listen, I did not read what you wrote because its a waste of time. You are wrong and you know it. The only reason you sit here trying excuse havoc's opness is because you want to stay in that sweet spot. Havoc is by far the strongest dps in m+ but don't worry, it will soon be over.
    I know you didn't, that's why you are still discussing like a true scrub you are. Also you still didn't say what your main is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post
    You are a dumb mother fucker if you think ilvl is expierence. I've been raiding since molten core. Did mc ony zg bwl and aq 40 in classicm. Raided till bt in vanilla and raided heroics through mop. Most of my friends left in mop and I've been raid leading casual groups since then. Cleared both sets of challenge modes when you couldn't just over gear stuff to beat a timer.

    All my item level says is I don't raid heroic on my dh which is an alt. So get your shit straight before you pop off at the mouth

    As for trail, yes it is superior in uldir for most fights. Still got 2-3 fights where it will push you over boomies and mages. Can't say for rogues as we don't bring one on the alt run.we need a couple but only 2 people play them in the guild and the both get taken for main run.

    And just so we're clear the good players in the top percentiles are not a valid representation of the massed pushing mid to low keys. most of the people complaining about DHS only see normal and 0-10 keys. If they even manage to get out of the 4-8 prison of garbage players trying to outgear m+ and/or be carried. Those DHS don't maintain an 80+% on blade sweep.if you aren't hitting sweep/dance every 7-7.5s you are loosing value. Then barrage starts to be more valuable.

    The problems just comppind with demonic, every thing we do in demon form cleaves or is aoe. We only have two spells that don't cleave and one of those does in demon form.
    You do not raid EVEN HEROICS and you present your opinion like it has weight. You have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about, you keep contradicting yourself and you also talk about around 4 different topics at the same time.

    1. I don't care what you killed in the game where you cast frostbolt for 8 minutes.
    2. You don't raid even heroic, which means you have no idea how to play and you go and tell me who raids mythic and pushes keys what is and what isn't good for high end. You need to learn your place.
    3. Top percentiles aren't representation? So I should play what a normal-raiding scrub tells me to play? Fel Barrage pushes ahead on Mother (provided you do the cheese strat and spawn 20 adds) and Zek'voz. On none of those encounters is it important to play it and it's just OMEGA PADDING. It's not useful damage that will help you kill the boss.

    So, both of you please learn to play and get some arguments to back up your claims instead of telling me how long you have been wasting your time in this game getting no better at all.
    Last edited by Synthium; 2018-11-08 at 03:41 PM.
    Burn it. BURN IT!

  9. #89
    Clearly you missed the part where I said DH alt. I have 3 geared 120s one of which is a dh. The otherone comes in for one fight on heroic (rogue) and the other is our guilds main tank. So quit cotton picking what you want to talk about. And I have not once contradicted myself. You act like everyone who plays this game is a mythic raider. You clearly don't understand that people below the 75th percentile are the majority. They are the ones who spec FB and don't change no matter what the content is.
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  10. #90
    jeesus guys its 5 pages of flaming over a nerf that was reverted within a day (according to blues) let the thread die and move on with your lives

    on a related note :-
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post
    3. Top percentiles aren't representation? So I should play what a normal-raiding scrub tells me to play? Fel Barrage pushes ahead on Mother (provided you do the cheese strat and spawn 20 adds) and Zek'voz. On none of those encounters is it important to play it and it's just OMEGA PADDING. It's not useful damage that will help you kill the boss.
    Fel barrage is not "OMEGA PADDING" on mythic for those encounters, padding suggests the damage isnt needed on the adds, or they're a lower priority than the boss, and you're just doing it raise your numbers, on the contuary the adds on both those encounters are the top priotiry and need to die a.s.a.p so if you arnt running fel barrage you're doing something wrong, now if you ran fel barrage on mythic Zul for example THAT would be padding since there boss damage > add damage
    Last edited by Zeeket; 2018-11-08 at 05:53 PM.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeket View Post
    jeesus guys its 5 pages of flaming over a nerf that was reverted within a day (according to blues) let the thread die and move on with your lives

    on a related note :-


    Fel barrage is not "OMEGA PADDING" on mythic for those encounters, padding suggests the damage isnt needed on the adds, or they're a lower priority than the boss, and you're just doing it raise your numbers, on the contuary the adds on both those encounters are the top priotiry and need to die a.s.a.p so if you arnt running fel barrage you're doing something wrong, now if you ran fel barrage on mythic Zul for example THAT would be padding since there boss damage > add damage
    Technically you're right. But taking Fel Barrage isn't really MANDATORY. Those small adds would simply die as a result of collateral cleave from warriors/frost mages/havoc dhs/dks or whatever you have at this gear level. In our farm raids, I played Fel Barrage on exactly 1 kill and I can tell you that it wasn't really useful damage, our mages would annihilate them really fast. Also my best rank on that boss (91) is done with Trail instead.

    What I mean is - there is a distinct difference between taking something that will allow you to be high on the meters and taking something that does the job you want to do. You can't tell me that 10 people speccing aoe for small adds on Zek'voz is necessary. I find Trail having better ST is better for Voidweavers and boss pushing into p2 so I take it instead. Also Trail cleaves down adds, just slower than burst aoe spell.
    Burn it. BURN IT!

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthium View Post
    Technically you're right. But taking Fel Barrage isn't really MANDATORY. Those small adds would simply die as a result of collateral cleave from warriors/frost mages/havoc dhs/dks or whatever you have at this gear level. In our farm raids, I played Fel Barrage on exactly 1 kill and I can tell you that it wasn't really useful damage, our mages would annihilate them really fast. Also my best rank on that boss (91) is done with Trail instead.

    What I mean is - there is a distinct difference between taking something that will allow you to be high on the meters and taking something that does the job you want to do. You can't tell me that 10 people speccing aoe for small adds on Zek'voz is necessary. I find Trail having better ST is better for Voidweavers and boss pushing into p2 so I take it instead. Also Trail cleaves down adds, just slower than burst aoe spell.
    That's a fair comment, we run with only 2 (sometimes 3) mages and no arms warriors and we reliable push it to p2 before the 3rd set of adds so for us the extra add damage is required, it is dependant on comp, just generaly if the adds are priority then specc'ing fel barrage (if your comp allows it) isnt really padding its putting prio damage where its needed

  13. #93
    Stood in the Fire Synthium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeket View Post
    That's a fair comment, we run with only 2 (sometimes 3) mages and no arms warriors and we reliable push it to p2 before the 3rd set of adds so for us the extra add damage is required, it is dependant on comp, just generaly if the adds are priority then specc'ing fel barrage (if your comp allows it) isnt really padding its putting prio damage where its needed
    I know what padding is in theory, but in my eyes, padding is any excessive AoE speccing that's just been done to make you appear better without actually doing anything to make the fight in itself easier. If you're doing a cheese Mother strat, it's worth because you will be spawning 20 adds, so having a stun and a big aoe spell will be more USEFUL, so there it's not padding. At least that's how I see it.
    Burn it. BURN IT!

  14. #94
    It's really simple. DH is the new class, so Blizzard are keeping them a little bit OP to promote the use of the class. Maybe next expansion DH won't be the king of all traits.

  15. #95
    warcraftlogs also has mythic + https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra.../20#metric=dps

    So all "havoc does most dmg by far" arguments are instantly nullified.
    I don't deny that we are stronk but so are rogues, mages, bommies, locks..

  16. #96
    Hit rogues and I'll be happy.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet View Post
    warcraftlogs also has mythic + https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra.../20#metric=dps

    So all "havoc does most dmg by far" arguments are instantly nullified.
    I don't deny that we are stronk but so are rogues, mages, bommies, locks..
    Yeah, if you look at warcraftlogs statistics in mm+, it shows havoc dh are by far the most represented spec in MM+.

  18. #98
    Eye Beam has been sitting on the chopping block since the expansion started. Surprised it didn't get hit sooner, the AoE burst from it is nuts. That said it's not being nerfed by that much.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    Eye Beam has been sitting on the chopping block since the expansion started. Surprised it didn't get hit sooner, the AoE burst from it is nuts. That said it's not being nerfed by that much.
    It's not being nerfed at all (currently)

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherJaggens View Post
    I'd still very much like them to do something to EB (make it shorter, as example) and compensate to single target dps. Thankfully balancing DH is pretty easy.
    You can spec for Fel Blade instead of Blind Fury?
    Hi

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