Is Redemption Of Sylvanas Possible Now?

[Jastall]

I disagree. I think the story still desperately clings to what Sylvanas used to be and how that former, heroic self hasn't been forgotten. This has been made particularly clear by the Blood Elf heritage armor questline in 8.1, where you have Lor'themar reaffirming his respect for Sylvanas and her sacrifice and how much his people owe to her, regardless of the current circumstances. I doubt these bits are dropped for no reason, considered the great impact Sylvanas' having on the plot right now. The building up over her being "irredeemable" seems to exist more create drama and add weight to a potential twist, it's an impression I had all the way back to Before the Storm, where Anduin's words suggesting Sylvanas' impossibility sounded excessively redundant of Garrosh's situation, with the difference that Garrosh proved that when it was too late, Anduin simply believes what he wants to believe.

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Not every villain needs a redemption story but any barely decent villain sure as hell needs a fucking reason to do what it does.

That one passage sounds more to me like an excuse as to why Lor'themar does nothing about her. The only other bit that fits the redemption part is Three Sisters... but then again, not murdering your family in cold blood after planning to do so is not exactly high on my list of virtues.

I do agree that a good villain needs a reason to do what they do, but since they reduced Sylvanas's reason to not dying, it's become real hard for me to care about her in the slightest.

[snackfeat]

Kerrigan killed trillions, so if you consider the end of SC2's story to be "Redemption" for her, then yes... yes she can.

And the end of SC2's story is generally considered to be asinine.

[Byleth]

I don't think she can be redeemed, no. At least not to me.

But it's Blizz, who knows?

[Zulkhan]

That one passage sounds more to me like an excuse as to why Lor'themar does nothing about her. The only other bit that fits the redemption part is Three Sisters... but then again, not murdering your family in cold blood after planning to do so is not exactly high on my list of virtues.

Excuse or not, Sylvanas' tragic past is repeteadly thrown on our faces one way or another, as the Warbringers cinematic did as well. To compare, everything about Arthas that was tied to his former self still depicted him in a negative light, because, in the end, "human" Arthas chose his own path and fell to darkness. With Sylvanas, instead, we're just getting constantly reminded that she has been a victim of someone else's madness, with whatever "evil" guiding her right now having been forced on her in the cruelest of manners.

I do agree that a good villain needs a reason to do what they do, but since they reduced Sylvanas's reason to not dying, it's become real hard for me to care about her in the slightest.

Actually, it's not clear what's motivating Sylvanas right now. "Fear of death" has become a weak excuse after she started a fucking world war.

[Aucald]

Actually, it's not clear what's motivating Sylvanas right now. "Fear of death" has become a weak excuse after she started a fucking world war.

A desire to create an unassailable bulwark around herself due to her fear of death (and the fate that awaits her afterward). The war is only a means to an end, and Sylvanas is both arrogant and psychopathic enough to imagine she will still come out on top.

[bloodmoth13]

fixed it for you

Infracted.

actually yes. it seems horde exist to provide alliance a story where none of their characters develop and just stay consistently good and passive.

[OpieOP]

Yeah its damn sure she'll be redeemed in my eyes! The traits on her azerite armor drops will be amazing, just can't wait to redeem her and get the famed banshee slayer title.

[Whitedragon]

Doesn't need redemption.
She's just winning the war that Genn/Alliance started in Stormheim.

Burn more Alliance towns I'd say!

Winning? as of 8.1 both sides seem to be agreeing that the Horde is weeks away from defeat lol!

[yetgdhfgh]

Yeah its damn sure she'll be redeemed in my eyes! The traits on her azerite armor drops will be amazing, just can't wait to redeem her and get the famed banshee slayer title.

If we get 'Boy King Slayer' title then that will be a fair trade IMO. Especially now blizz is giving us a raid where we have to be members of the opposite faction to fight and loot a boss.

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Winning? as of 8.1 both sides seem to be agreeing that the Horde is weeks away from defeat lol!

Didnt we get a cutscene where Genn pretty much said they will be using Farmers next?

Yes 8.1 doest end that well for the Horde but in a war of attrition where one side can use the dead of the other side that will tip the scales plus if Sylvanas is gonna be a end game boss she will need all the canon fodder 'trash' to make a raid worthwhile and that is if she is even gonna be a end game boss though my brain tells me she is gonna be.

[Whitedragon]

Didnt we get a cutscene where Genn pretty much said they will be using Farmers next?

Yes 8.1 doest end that well for the Horde but in a war of attrition where one side can use the dead of the other side that will tip the scales plus if Sylvanas is gonna be a end game boss she will need all the canon fodder 'trash' to make a raid worthwhile and that is if she is even gonna be a end game boss though my brain tells me she is gonna be.

Because the Horde isn't most likely in the same boat if not much worse by now? remind me again when did they have a chance to rebuild their forces post SoO? The only one who could somewhat claim it is Sylvanas and even her options are getting more and more limited as her Valkir die, she doesn't have the luxury of just having her enemies turn upon death, she actually needs to have them raised. Also of note is even with an equal force of troops, The hordes navy is most definitely weaker now by a large margin, and the Ace in the hole they had to get back at the Alliance (The Tide sage Staff) has been reclaimed by Alliance forces. Lastly we now have the makings of another rebellion in the works to weaken the horde even more.

Also as of 8.1 It looks like VE's can rise the dead as well, not that I think that will be used for anything substantial but....

[OpieOP]

If we get 'Boy King Slayer' title then that will be a fair trade IMO. Especially now blizz is giving us a raid where we have to be members of the opposite faction to fight and loot a boss.

Don't worry mate, he has plot armor, you won't be killing _HIM_ any time soon, but you'll like looting Sylvanas just as I do, at least you'll have to

[yetgdhfgh]

Because the Horde isn't most likely in the same boat if not much worse by now? remind me again when did they have a chance to rebuild their forces post SoO? The only one who could somewhat claim it is Sylvanas and even her options are getting more and more limited as her Valkir die, she doesn't have the luxury of just having her enemies turn upon death, she actually needs to have them raised. Also of note is even with an equal force of troops, The hordes navy is most definitely weaker now by a large margin, and the Ace in the hole they had to get back at the Alliance (The Tide sage Staff) has been reclaimed by Alliance forces. Lastly we now have the makings of another rebellion in the works to weaken the horde even more.

Also as of 8.1 It looks like VE's can rise the dead as well, not that I think that will be used for anything substantial but....

I never said we was in a better shape but you said the Horde was literally weeks away from utter defeat and i say thats not the case at least not now.

We almost killed Jaina and Mettatorque and now we have the full force of the Zandalari we are far from being defeated in a matter of weeks.

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Don't worry mate, he has plot armor, you won't be killing _HIM_ any time soon, but you'll like looting Sylvanas just as I do, at least you'll have to

People said the same thing about Garrosh and we never really got to kill and loot him he just survived and then died in a cinematic and a fight we had nothing to do with.

[Whitedragon]

I never said we was in a better shape but you said the Horde was literally weeks away from utter defeat and i say thats not the case at least not now.

We almost killed Jaina and Mettatorque and now we have the full force of the Zandalari we are far from being defeated in a matter of weeks.

.... I didn't say that... THEY SAY IT IN GAME! on both side.... the lore acknowledges this as fact on both sides, and Nathanos's backup plan was restolen by the Alliance... That's why many players are saying Blizzards needs to have Azshara make a major attack on Alliance forces while ignoring horde, so as to actually even things up lore wise.

As for the full force of the Zandalari, you mean the shambles of their shattered navy? or what ever solders they have left after a devastating cue, a war with the blood trolls, and a successful raid on their city?

[yetgdhfgh]

.... I didn't say that... THEY SAY IT IN GAME! on both side.... the lore acknowledges this as fact on both sides, and Nathanos's backup plan was restolen by the Alliance... That's why many players are saying Blizzards needs to have Azshara make a major attack on Alliance forces while ignoring horde, so as to actually even things up lore wise.

As for the full force of the Zandalari, you mean the shambles of their shattered navy? or what ever solders they have left after a devastating cue, a war with the blood trolls, and a successful raid on their city?

Can you link that so i can have a look at it? I know PTR has a history of changing things at the last minute.

Also yes Zandalar isnt in the best of shape now but how is the alliance in a better shape? We are about to break out Lady Ashvane and the Nelfs have splintered off to reclaim a bunch of trees.

You see from what i have been seeing the Alliance doesnt have the numbers to press home the attack to get the grand prize and thats Sylvanas and you need to kill her to win the war.

[Tortuga234]

At this point this terrible character should just go. Enough of milking the Sly-anus.

[Zora-Prime]

Winning? as of 8.1 both sides seem to be agreeing that the Horde is weeks away from defeat lol!

Last cinematic flat out said the alliance are about to start drafting farmers lol... face it, Anduin's choices on fronts are absolutely moronic.

Neutral Zandalari? Neutral Vulpera?

[ausoin]

Can you link that so i can have a look at it? I know PTR has a history of changing things at the last minute.

Also yes Zandalar isnt in the best of shape now but how is the alliance in a better shape? We are about to break out Lady Ashvane and the Nelfs have splintered off to reclaim a bunch of trees.

You see from what i have been seeing the Alliance doesnt have the numbers to press home the attack to get the grand prize and that's Sylvanas and you need to kill her to win the war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUTjBVWwqiU&t=67s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl6PTChtVXc&t=32s

Bear in mind its unlikely this defeat will actually happen since no faction completely defeated another, even SoO was considered the Horde and the Alliance together waging a battle against a rouge Horde army.

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Last cinematic flat out said the alliance are about to start drafting farmers lol... face it, Anduin's choices on fronts are absolutely moronic.

Neutral Zandalari? Neutral Vulpera?

Zandalari are def not neutral, and the Vulpera are supplying the Horde and the purge squads have been removed thank god.

[yetgdhfgh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUTjBVWwqiU&t=67s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl6PTChtVXc&t=32s

Bear in mind its unlikely this defeat will actually happen since no faction completely defeated another, even SoO was considered the Horde and the Alliance together waging a battle against a rouge Horde army.

So its the alliance who said that and iam sure no military commander has ever said a war would be over by Christmas to impress a leader. Also its Mathias Shaw who said that and now we now he prolly knows alot more than the others *cough letting out Saurfang *cough

Sadly i know how this crap is gonna end cause blizz doesnt have the talent to subvert our expectations and they are just giving us SoO 2.0

[ausoin]

So its the alliance who said that and iam sure no military commander has ever said a war would be over by Christmas to impress a leader.

Sadly i know how this crap is gonna end cause blizz doesnt have the talent to subvert our expectations and they are just giving us SoO 2.0

And Nathanos on the Horde side.

[yetgdhfgh]

And Nathanos on the Horde side.

And does he know all the facts? Does he know the real strengths of the Horde and the Alliance?

Yes he saw what he thinks is a defeat and is making sure the other leaders know now is not the time to go all wobbly and give up.

Ah whatever does it matter we are gonna raid Sylvanas at the end and once again the Horde is back being the losers! Its so obvious how this crap is gonna end that iam tired trying to play devils advocate defending it.

So gloat if you must, dance if you like and no doubt Anduin will say they will end us if we forsake honour for the tenth millionth time yada yada fucking yawn!