Blizzard REMOVED Zandalari Warlocks.

[Marrilaife]

Ps: the only reason it was removed is because Horde is largely favored / popular in PVE, PVP and Lore. Giving more class options in front of the Kul'tirans was bad PR. Just showing even more they love of the Horde.

They JUST added mages to Kul Tirans so that was their chance to say "we added 1 extra class to both sides, enjoy, no favouritism here". Instead now Horde is upset they didn't get an extra class while Kul Tirans did. Hell, Kul Tirans could get a warlock or a paladin on top of it if people still thought they have too few options, and Zandalari keep their warlocks.

People are always upset if you remove stuff, if you add to both sides balance is preserved but no one feels something was taken away.

And contrary to for example class balancing where there's an issue of power creep / arms race, cosmetic options like race + class combos or number of hairstyles don't have this issue, so the more the merrier. (I still wish Nightborne would have more hairstyles, and Lightforged have more skin / hair colour options.)

[Deleted]

They JUST added mages to Kul Tirans so that was their chance to say "we added 1 extra class to both sides, enjoy, no favouritism here". Instead now Horde is upset they didn't get an extra class while Kul Tirans did. Hell, Kul Tirans could get a warlock or a paladin on top of it if people still thought they have too few options, and Zandalari keep their warlocks.

People are always upset if you remove stuff, if you add to both sides balance is preserved but no one feels something was taken away.

And contrary to for example class balancing where there's an issue of power creep / arms race, cosmetic options like race + class combos or number of hairstyles don't have this issue, so the more the merrier. (I still wish Nightborne would have more hairstyles, and Lightforged have more skin / hair colour options.)

I agree. Removing something is NEVER the answer, when you remove something people will always feel like they were robbed of something, they will become angrier and will be less likely to trust you in the future.

In this particular case I believe they should merely have added more classes to Kul Tirans. If they had done that and left the Zandalari as they were, the class/race combo of the game would be 88/88 Horde and Alliance while now it's currently 87/88. I know Blizzard values balance and they made a mistake with this, if they add Warlocks again balance will be restored.

I wish races had more customizations too...I remember Lightforged Draenei had a black hair option once and I was going to roll one with that colour but never happened T-T

- - - Updated - - -

I completely agree. In fact I think class/race restrictions are an outdated mechanic and needs to go completely. All the lore reasons are contradicted by Blizzard themselves. The players who care about lore will be much better coming up themselves with a background about how their character became what it is. Meanwhile for the players who don't care about lore it shouldn't matter anyway.

I wouldn't have said it better! Games like this need to offer a broader choice so that players feel more like they belong in it. The freedom to choose how your character looks like and what they do makes your experience much more unique, at least from my point of view. I don't feel like the story benefits from my Draenei being a Shaman while a my friend's Human character can't. It's something that at this point in time is outdated and needs to go.

[FelPlague]

They have no connection to the fel.

The same way warlock can't transform into demons.

(see, I took a Bli$$ard here)

Ps: the only reason it was removed is because Horde is largely favored / popular in PVE, PVP and Lore. Giving more class options in front of the Kul'tirans was bad PR. Just showing even more they love of the Horde.
The same way Demonology lost Meta after years and having lore warlocks still using it, only because they had plans for DHs.
Then ofc they call BS lore reason not to give / or to cut your class / spec. C'est la vie.

Dark iron got lots of classes while maghar did not.
kultirans and zandalari are the opposite, just how the allied races work, all the allied races share class numbers with another allied race of the opposite facton

[Deleted]

Dark iron got lots of classes while maghar did not.
kultirans and zandalari are the opposite, just how the allied races work, all the allied races share class numbers with another allied race of the opposite facton

If that was such an abligatory thing Kul Tirans would have 7 classes like Mag'har but they have 8, why should the Zandalari then have 9 like the Dark Irons and not 10?

[FelPlague]

If that was such an abligatory thing Kul Tirans would have 7 classes like Mag'har but they have 8, why should the Zandalari then have 9 like the Dark Irons and not 10?

We shall see, if anything they will add another to maghar.
the 4 legion allied races share numbers aswell

[MikeBogina]

No one said there wasn't, there just isn't a lore justification for them existing.

No different than nightborne being a society of magic to the point where the racial only benefits magic dmg yet they can be monks amongst other things. Apparently the reasoning is that the Zandalari have no ties to fel, but what ties do most of the races have with monks?

Its very arbitrary.

Where's the lore justification for all the other races to be monks, the moment MoP launched? Even the Scarlet Crusade had fighting monks.

The difference between all of them and the Zandalari(and Kul Tirans) is that the playable Zandalari(and KT's) come months after we meet up, where all the other races had monks the very moment mop released, not giving enough time.

That even said, monks is something any race can develop, without ever meeting pandaren. It doesn't have to be the same type of monk, just like warriors, any race can be.

- - - Updated - - -

I think they mean so because the Zandalari and pandaren have a long story of conflict and distrust.

Regardless I don't think Monks should be removed from them, I'm all pro-adding classes, not removing them, we should not feel like we need to remove someone's happiness to attain ours.

Their original conflict happened more than 10k years ago, I can't even imagine holding a grudge of something that happened to my ancestors more than 100 years ago. And the Horde Pandaren are far removed from those pandaren and have been working with trolls for years.

These Pandaren wouldn't and shouldn't have an issue training their new allies and even if they did, every race has monks, so any race can train them in it and since every race(is there one that's not monk?) could be monk at the launch of MoP(even Scarlet Crusade got monks) I don't even think monk is even reliant on your relation with pandaren.

[Baconeggcheese]

Where's the lore justification for all the other races to be monks, the moment MoP launched? Even the Scarlet Crusade had fighting monks.

The difference between all of them and the Zandalari(and Kul Tirans) is that the playable Zandalari(and KT's) come months after we meet up, where all the other races had monks the very moment mop released, not giving enough time.

That even said, monks is something any race can develop, without ever meeting pandaren. It doesn't have to be the same type of monk, just like warriors, any race can be.

I'm kind of confused, this reads like you're aggressively agreeing with me.

- - - Updated - - -

Giving more class options in front of the Kul'tirans was bad PR.

I'm just not seeing it if that was the case, I don't see people shouting horde favoritism with that being the reasoning leading all the way up until they last second removed it.

It seemed all people really cared about was kultiran mages and zandalari paladins, didn't seem like any significant amount of people cared much that one had more than the other.

[MikeBogina]

I'm kind of confused, this reads like you're aggressively agreeing with me.

I'm sorry if it came off that way, I did just wake up xD

I'm just saying that lore-wise, it's actually more believable that a race that officially becomes playable months after joining the faction, then gives it more reason to have classes that it normally shouldn't. For instance, Mag'har become playable the moment they arrive on the planet, so they're classes are restricted to what they would have been when they came over. But say we helped the Mag'har and patches later, they could be playable... it would mean that their younger recruits would have had time to become trainies of a new class.

If you agree with that, than yeah we agree. I do want their to be class combo's based on lore, but once a race joins a faction, it's hard to believe that there wouldn't be new race/class combos.

[Baconeggcheese]

I'm sorry if it came off that way, I did just wake up xD

I'm just saying that lore-wise, it's actually more believable that a race that officially becomes playable months after joining the faction, then gives it more reason to have classes that it normally shouldn't. For instance, Mag'har become playable the moment they arrive on the planet, so they're classes are restricted to what they would have been when they came over. But say we helped the Mag'har and patches later, they could be playable... it would mean that their younger recruits would have had time to become trainies of a new class.

If you agree with that, than yeah we agree. I do want their to be class combo's based on lore, but once a race joins a faction, it's hard to believe that there wouldn't be new race/class combos.

The way wow seems to treat it is that the moment our characters collide with a new race they instantly learn to be the new thing (like in the case of monks) mostly for gameplay reasons.

Which is a part of why most class / race combo restrictions make very little sense. There really isn't consistency there, like in the case of zandalari having monks but not warlocks.

[Mardux]

Yeah and holy shit forums reacted as if alliance playerbase stole a class combo from the horde. Even though majority of playerbase both factions probably doesn't care if more class combos are added, only minority has some opinion for or against.

Personally I am for, more class combos for everyone. I don't get why warriors and hunters should be privileged and have every possible race available but some other classes can't enjoy many of the new races at all.

Blizzard want to appease the alliance playerbase again. What they did accomplished that 3 fold.

We gained something (kt mages, that are all the sudden a thing inthe lore)
Tghe horde players lost something (ztroll locks, cant wait for them to start ghosting npcs and quest objectives because "zandilari have no connection to fel", yet the npcs are there).
We come out on top of horde again (18 alliance bfa allied race combos vs 17 horde bfa allied race combos).

All is right balance-wise when it comes to allied races.

- - - Updated - - -

The pandaren were able to forgive garrosh for destroying the vale.
pretty sure they can forgive som zandalari.

- - - Updated - - -



It removes class and race identity from the game if every race can be every class.
the zandalari are literally 3 classes from being the first race to have access to every class.
they have more class options right now then some normal races.

if they got warlock, they would literally be the race with THE MOST CLASSES as they would have EVERY CLASS except hero classes, making them to first to have every class except hero classes.

Its balances so long as alliance have better numbers? Glad you're so close to admitting you think that.

[Kathranis]

Zandalari were established as having examples of every playable class as far back as the ZG class quests Classic, though the Demoniacs were certainly only tenuously connected to the Warlock class, seeming more like Demon Hunters from the way they were described. We also never saw examples of Zandalari warlocks in-game, unlike with the Zandalari prelates. So, I can get why they would decide against them.

[FelPlague]

Its balances so long as alliance have better numbers? Glad you're so close to admitting you think that.

88 alliance class options
87 horde class options
it is so close, you are really gunna play "ALLIANCE BIAS"

- - - Updated - - -

Zandalari were established as having examples of every playable class as far back as the ZG class quests Classic, though the Demoniacs were certainly only tenuously connected to the Warlock class, seeming more like Demon Hunters from the way they were described. We also never saw examples of Zandalari warlocks in-game, unlike with the Zandalari prelates. So, I can get why they would decide against them.

There was examples of zandalari warlocks, but they were outcasts, or part of the invading zandalari force.

[kiramon]

88 alliance class options
87 horde class options
it is so close, you are really gunna play "ALLIANCE BIAS"

- - - Updated - - -



There was examples of zandalari warlocks, but they were outcasts, or part of the invading zandalari force.

It’s funny cuz they got Kul Tiran mages by doing the exact same
Thing they used to get rid of Zandalari warlocks.

Kul Tirans: there are a few great examples of Kul Tiran Mages so you can be the class

Zandalari: there are only a few great examples of Zandalari warlocks, so we took the option away

[Seranthor]

Removing the class makes 0 sense specially after being announced at the main WoW panel of frigging Blizzcon. Seriously this isn't particularly hard to grasp.

And if they did not remove the class the least they can so is to come out and say it. People been excited for this class race combination since February or something.

Apparently it IS hard when they say NO, and folks continue to lose their minds over it.

[FelPlague]

It’s funny cuz they got Kul Tiran mages by doing the exact same
Thing they used to get rid of Zandalari warlocks.

Kul Tirans: there are a few great examples of Kul Tiran Mages so you can be the class

Zandalari: there are only a few great examples of Zandalari warlocks, so we took the option away

Kultiran mages had EVERYTHING TO SUPPORT THEM and literally no reason not to.
zandalari have outlawed "evil magics" specially after that hole hakar thing and ghuun and blood troll thing...

there has been many kultiran mages
there has only been one handful of zandalari warlock, and they have all been outcasts

[Seranthor]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281580/...d-vulpera-race

This was posted a long time ago

Are you some how suggesting that EVERYTHING that is datamined (which is what you've offered) has to come into the game? Yes or No?

- - - Updated - - -

While people are complaining about zand locks... I am over here still waiting for a new dk race lol.

Dont hold your breath.

- - - Updated - - -

You have an entire part of the Zandalari Lore dedicated to Demonology thanks to the Demoniacs. I'm not forcing you to accept Zandalari Warlocks but at least don't pretend they don't exist.

I'm not forcing you to accept what Blizzard has said about the subject, but dont pretend they haven't spoken and decided already.

[lordjust]

Kultiran mages had EVERYTHING TO SUPPORT THEM and literally no reason not to.
zandalari have outlawed "evil magics" specially after that hole hakar thing and ghuun and blood troll thing...

there has been many kultiran mages
there has only been one handful of zandalari warlock, and they have all been outcasts

But look at the darkspear warlocks. In lore they're worshipping Bwonsamdi and are witchdoctors, from a gameplay perspective they're warlocks. That's the explanation used when they added warlocks for darkspear trolls back in cata. They could've used the same explanation for Zandalari warlocks because there already were Zandalari who worshipped Bwonsamdi and he's now the loa of the royal family.

If you use the excuse that Zandalari warlocks (demoniacs) are outcasts, then the same thing applies to the darkspear warlocks because they also outlawed the use of fel magic and demons.

[FelPlague]

But look at the darkspear warlocks. In lore they're worshipping Bwonsamdi and are witchdoctors, from a gameplay perspective they're warlocks. That's the explanation used when they added warlocks for darkspear trolls back in cata. They could've used the same explanation for Zandalari warlocks because there already were Zandalari who worshipped Bwonsamdi and he's now the loa of the royal family.

If you use the excuse that Zandalari warlocks (demoniacs) are outcasts, then the same thing applies to the darkspear warlocks because they also outlawed the use of fel magic and demons.

Bwomsombi JUST became the loa for the royal family.
also the ones that worshipped him before were outcasts.
and no, darkspear warlock are perfectly allowed in the darkspear, sorta in the name.

[Verazh]

Bwomsombi JUST became the loa for the royal family.
also the ones that worshipped him before were outcasts.
and no, darkspear warlock are perfectly allowed in the darkspear, sorta in the name.

This is straight up NOT true. There are shrines all over the main city dedicated to Bwomsamdi. His worshippers were not outcasts. Stop making up your own lore to support your argument.

[Mardux]

88 alliance class options
87 horde class options
it is so close, you are really gunna play "ALLIANCE BIAS"

- - - Updated - - -



There was examples of zandalari warlocks, but they were outcasts, or part of the invading zandalari force.

Considering it was perfectly balanced up until we threw our temper tantrums and got them to add kt mages and retcon lore to get rid of ztroll locks.

And there are examples of kt mages, they are/were criminals inside of tol dagor. I guess all the jaina wannabes are going to go learn from criminals inside a prison.

- - - Updated - - -

Kultiran mages had EVERYTHING TO SUPPORT THEM and literally no reason not to.
zandalari have outlawed "evil magics" specially after that hole hakar thing and ghuun and blood troll thing...

there has been many kultiran mages
there has only been one handful of zandalari warlock, and they have all been outcasts

"Everything to support them". As in one npc who had to go to dalaran to learn how to be a mage and a couple of ashvane mobs that are unstable. Lol