Favorite Shadow Playstyle

[Exsaven]

I enjoyed the orb mechanic but it was really just a glorified cooldown on Devouring Plague. I much prefer Voidform tbh. More unique and interesting if properly balanced.

[draynay]

mana battery by miles, I loved being support

hate voidform

[Quack27]

mind flay clipping and refreshing dots perfectly was really engaging. it was this odd mix of extremely satisfying when done properly while also stupidly punishing for doing too early (since this was before pandemic was a thing). add dot snapshotting to the mix and well, you have an enjoyable dot class.

that sort of thing definitely wouldn't be acceptable for today's standards, especially considering how much more involved raid mechanics have become. but since raid mechanics were relatively simple to understand and execute, it made all the small good plays you made across the entire encounter really pay off.

MF:I in MoP and CoP with MF:I both felt like good recreations of that sort of playstyle but in a more modern way. void bolting just doesn't have the same appeal as that.

fwiw i still voted for MoP though. MoP had shadow feel like it evolved every tier thanks to new talents (or talents becoming viable thanks to fight mechanics) where as WotLK was pretty much the exact same throughout (except i think with the ICC tier bonus you could have dropped MB from your rotation.) i also didn't play during WoD so unsure how that would have affected my voting.

Really great breakdown, thanks.

Yea, i really wanted to find the options that i have seen talked about frequently, seemed realistic to bring back, and that felt very unique.

I can certainly see that Wrath playstyle feeling good and getting the subtleties of it correct feeling very rewarding.

However also as you said it might not realistically translate today without removing pandemic and bringing back snapshotting, which i think are very unlikely.

Do you think the MoP iteration could still feel satisfying to you today since that's what you chose out of the options i included?

[Aydinx2]

I left off mana battery because that would require a complete redo of mana and healers which I am not looking to discuss in this thread.

WoD Shadow Priest, but that's the earliest I've played it (apparently the MoP SPriests were good).
I miss the shadow orbs mechanic. Yeah it was basicly combo-points/Holy power, but why does every class need to be so stupidly unique?
I'd rather have shared mechanics than a unique one that feels like I'm playing ping-pong.

[Zka]

BC, why is this not an option in the poll?

[Quack27]

IDKY you wouldn't include the older versions.

As interesting as this poll is, it would more interesting to add all the iterations of SP from Vanilla, BC, Wrath, and separate Legion's VF and BFA's VF. That way, you can see what is more in favor over time the more people vote.

Here's why I'd choose Wrath.
Wrath: Ofc nostalgia, but also you had the instant PoM, divine hymn, renew, fh, manaburn, plus same utility as today. IIRC Mass Dispel didn't have a CD either. This was the Devouring Plague version where it can only be one target, your kill target. Also SWD can be used outside execute, less damage, damages you back. Passive regen ofc. You were a complete priest. Numbers were ranged from terrible to good during expansion. I remember ICC trash, all you did was mindsear and just top meters but adds dots to the MSear mmmm. Also the tier bonuses were nice as well, had to look them up again though, just passive dmg and crit increases.

Yes i think i did a very poor job by not explaining more specifically what i was looking for feedback on and why i chose the 4 styles that i did.

I really wanted to focus on feedback for core rotational gameplay. I did not consider utility in this (not that it isn't important, it's extremely important) it's just something i want to discuss separately from core rotational gameplay in another thread.

I left out Vanilla and TBC not because i don't think people enjoyed them (i definitely like the idea of a "support" dps with the TBC mana battery style), but because i do not see a world where those playstyles have a realistic chance of returning.

The four styles i did choose seem to reasonably translate into today's game (albeit with certain tweaks), and are also very different from one another.

Cataclysm-I have seen a lot of people call this the golden age of shadow, and it seems to be the oldest playstyle that could possibly still translate.

MoP- A lot of people talk about wanting those shadow orbs back, and that is certainly a playstyle that would translate today. Having a completely different resource from Cataclysm and Legion makes this a unique playstyle to include.

Clarity of Power- While not as popular as other iterations, there are certainly people that really enjoyed it, and it definitely fits the criteria of being a very unique playstyle compared to the other options.

Voidform - This is of course a very unique playstyle from all the other choices, with a lot of players really embracing the playstyle, and a lot completely hating it. I chose Legion instead of BfA because most people seem to feel that Legion was the better iteration of this style.

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BC, why is this not an option in the poll?

As i said in the original, i left off the mana battery playstyle not because i don't think it was really great, but because it requires changes to more than just priest; would require a complete change to how mana, healers, and encounters are designed.

I think its more likely that we see a blizzard TBC server (which would be awesome).

[-aiko-]

It's a toss up between MoP and Legion. Shadow Orbs were a cleaner mechanic than Voidform is but they lack the 'oomph' and class fantasy feel that Voidform brought. Voidform worked better in Legion than BFA because of the amount of time you could stay in it and the super high haste stacks you could build up. In BFA they dropped this gameplay and gave it to Fury Warriors, making Voidform feel...bad. I don't feel much of a difference between having 10 stacks or 30 stacks.

I don't know if I can really choose. If I had a time machine and could go back I'd love to try Shadow Orbs again to see if I could decide between them.

[Quack27]

I also look back fondly on tiers where our support/utility was in a good place. Siege of Org for example, the healing from halo/star was noticeable (malkorok?) and void shift and grip remained 'feel awesome' when used well. VE in WotLK and generally being the tankiest ranged was also pretty good, taking soaks on ulduar council or healing a group in last phase anub'arak for example.

I do look back fondly on WotLK - MoP and I think a lot of that is because the GAMEPLAY focused on DoTs, the importance of snapshotting buffs and refreshing at precise times. The removal of snapshotting and the introduction of 'pandemic' removed a HUGE part of what I considered shadow gameplay, it made no real difference to the base gameplay but lowered the ceiling dramatically.
That said, shadow had issues in WotLK, namely the ramp up time, that I don't miss at all. I think that's also a large part of the reason I never really connected with void form, it felt like a reintroduction of the downsides of WotLK shadow that we'd moved away from.

I also find it hard to separate some of the playstyles from the lore. When I started playing shadow it was all about the mind, mind blast/flay/control and shadow words. In my mind that made us psychological warfare. We were just bullying mobs until we could just tell them to die, the lore equivalent of 'kill urself noob'. There were always issues and mixed identity there, vampiric stuff and plagues should never have been part of our toolkit (imo). The introduction of void / oldgod stuff moved away from how I thought about my Priest. Whilst I understand why they did it, it still took part of the spec away from me.

I don't think we've ever had a perfect tier for gameplay or lore. Each tier, however fun, has had it's gameplay issues and/or balance issues. And it's always hard to really LOVE a spec in a tier when you're bottom of the meters, however well it plays.

Very good feedback. You will see the topics of utility, snapshotting, and pandemic addressed above...tl;dr i wanted to focus on core rotational gameplay in this discussion and not utility, and i do not believe bringing back snapshotting and removing pandemic is that likely and probably would translate poorly into today's fight mechanics.

As far as lore goes, i completely agree that lore and flavor are super important, and personally have other ideas for shadow and other specs that would be very different, however like the above issues i wanted to keep this discussion on core rotational play, and i failed to make that known in the original post.

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It was the best (and last) dot based playstyle it had. It all went down hill from there when they tried to make it a shadow mage rogue with combo points, then we had the horrific mess that was mop and the utter trash cop playstyle. I guess the natural conclusion to that is the voidform.

Do you feel that the Cataclysm style did not do a good job of being a dot based style?

What would you say were the biggest differences between wrath and cataclysm playstyle?

Do you believe removing pandemic and reintroducing snapshotting would translate well today?

Thanks for the feedback.

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This 1000%.

I loved how i could compete with mages, locks and rogues (with legendaries) while I didn't have it.

Did you enjoy this era primarily due to feeling like a strong class, or because the core gameplay was fun? For example, would you still have enjoyed somewhat if you had that playstyle but were a bit further down on the charts?

Is there another style you have more fun playing, but felt useless due to being poorly balanced?

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I had the legendary and a personal DI, while numbers wise SP where one of the best DPS classes back then what i loved about that version of SP was how smooth the class fell

I sincerely don't understand why Blizz fell the need to keep remaking classes, at this point in wow history each spec had a time where they fell perfect, why change something that works? change the numbers so each spec have times to shinny but leave the class fantasy the same if they cant get better then that

When you say felt smooth, could you elaborate? Was it a consistency thing?

I definitely like that you have a good feeling about the playstyle outside of just its strength at that time, and i don't know if there's a way that you can break down that feeling more into words.

[Guffnat]

BC, why is this not an option in the poll?

This! Loved the BC playstyle.

[Quack27]

I enjoyed the orb mechanic but it was really just a glorified cooldown on Devouring Plague. I much prefer Voidform tbh. More unique and interesting if properly balanced.

Do you feel like Voidform can be properly balanced?

Would you be ok knowing some fights and world content you will likely feel very weak? Are the times that you feel strong enough to make up for that?

Do you still prefer BfA version of Voidform over other playstyles, or specifically the Legion version?

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This! Loved the BC playstyle.

As i said in the original, i left off the mana battery playstyle not because i don't think it was really great, but because it requires changes to more than just priest; would require a complete change to how mana, healers, and encounters are designed.

I think its more likely that we see a blizzard TBC server (which would be awesome).

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It's a toss up between MoP and Legion. Shadow Orbs were a cleaner mechanic than Voidform is but they lack the 'oomph' and class fantasy feel that Voidform brought. Voidform worked better in Legion than BFA because of the amount of time you could stay in it and the super high haste stacks you could build up. In BFA they dropped this gameplay and gave it to Fury Warriors, making Voidform feel...bad. I don't feel much of a difference between having 10 stacks or 30 stacks.

I don't know if I can really choose. If I had a time machine and could go back I'd love to try Shadow Orbs again to see if I could decide between them.

Great feedback.

Was there something specifically about having the orb charges that you liked, or would it feel just as good to spend insanity in a builder/ spender playstyle?

If the playstyle went back to builder/spender, do you feel like a Voidform talent would be a nice option? Would you rather see Voidform as a dps cooldown?

[Malix Farwin]

tbh with you any version then what we have now.

[Quack27]

I have edited the original post to clarify what kind of feedback i was looking for and why i chose the options that i did. I failed to do this initially, apologies

[kaelix1]

I definitely like that you have a good feeling about the playstyle outside of just its strength at that time, and I don't know if there's a way that you can break down that feeling more into words.

It really hard to explain I guess, I liked that part where you had to manage 3 dots on the target, proper MF clips were important, I remember I was reading forums all the time how to properly improve that, it was a nice felling when i manage to do it properly, having Dark Angel and Shadowfiend up was a LETS DO THIS felling, something like i have when im in meta on my DH, you could say, well whats the difference now? you still have 2 todays, still have MF or MB, i cant really explain it, something is off about current shadow priest, the bust i could do with SWD and DS tier was super, a proper execute, the felling of Mind Spike rotation was superb, right now i fell nothing, no exciment, nothitng, each time im in Void form i want to get out as fast as possible so i can use Void eruption faster

[RedTed]

Whichever was the WotLK style. That one by miles

[Quack27]

imo best spriest was in MoP. as a lot of specs, like surv hunter etc. MoP did a lot right, before that horrible nonsens pruning with WoD started...

What did you specifically enjoy about this style? Was it having the consistent builder/spender gameplay, or was there something else about it?

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i really enjoyed the orbs playstyle

however, i can see why they changed it haha

What was it about orbs that you liked?

Why do you feel they changed it, and why did that change make sense?

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BC->Cata->WoD (CoP)->MoP are my favourites, in that order.

What about Cataclysm did you like? Was it being strong, or the actual gameplay?

How would you translate that playstyle into today's game?

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When we had Shadow Orbs, easily.

Loathe Voidform.

What about shadow orbs felt so good?

[Cockus Maximus]

Clarity of Power all day. Was so sad when they took that away. Love the concept of assaulting your enemy's mind(s), hate DoTs. Second place would probably be TBC mana battery.

[Cronovey]

It really hard to explain I guess, I liked that part where you had to manage 3 dots on the target, proper MF clips were important, I remember I was reading forums all the time how to properly improve that, it was a nice felling when i manage to do it properly, having Dark Angel and Shadowfiend up was a LETS DO THIS felling, something like i have when im in meta on my DH, you could say, well whats the difference now? you still have 2 todays, still have MF or MB, i cant really explain it, something is off about current shadow priest, the bust i could do with SWD and DS tier was super, a proper execute, the felling of Mind Spike rotation was superb, right now i fell nothing, no exciment, nothitng, each time im in Void form i want to get out as fast as possible so i can use Void eruption faster

I think part of the reason it feels off today compared to then is the Dark Archangel vs Voidform. Voidform doesn't feel like a proper cooldown; it's so core to using it in the rotation these days that it's not exciting when you get the buildup into it vs Dark Archangel which felt like a proper cooldown back then. Losing SW: Death as a baseline ability that shadow has had since I believe BC is also very awkward; taking something that has been in the shadow priest kit as a natural ability for close to 12 years and making it a talent that isn't even a strong one just feels wrong. Cataclysm also allowed you to play like a proper spellcaster if you wanted to with Mind Spike/Mind Blast instead of being DoT focused, and they had fantastic set bonuses that either changed the way you played in between patches or encouraged proper play (such as reduced CD's on Mindbender/Shadowfiend and buffing Mind Blast damage if both DoT's were up on Firelands tier) or the Dragon Soul set putting a lot of emphasis on SW:Death.

There was a real feeling of cooldown usage back then and having set bonuses made you feel much more powerful once you completed them, in addition to Mind Blast hitting like a truck back then to make up for the lack of burst damage priests had overall. In addition, Vampiric Embrace felt like a legitimate raid cooldown back then compared to something that is basically overlooked these days. In addition, orbs were a thing back then but gave a significant buff to Mind Spike or Mind Blast damage back then; stacking up orbs and lining up your burst with them was a skill-based thing to do if you could line it up with trinket procs, Dark Archangel, or various other cooldowns available to the raid. Mind Blast went from a filler spell that barely did more damage than a Mind Flay fully channeled to a significant part of the rotation, and at the time in Cataclysm also had a Mortal Strike-esque healing debuff built into it, making them a much more viable class to pick into a PvP match as well. Strong damage over long periods, slowing on Mind Flay, healing reduction and high burst on Mind Blast with Dark Archangel, and the durability added by using Inner Fire for armor and spell damage and swapping when necessary to Inner Will for the movement speed increase was a nice bit of flavor which I used in a macro to alternate between the two since only one could be active at a time. Inner Will swap while moving and back to Fire when stopping was another way to show skill at the class but most of the things you can do to show individual skill has been removed other than not letting DoTs drop off.

Cataclysm was the peak of shadow priest for myself for sure.

[Ysil]

CoP. I really, really enjoyed it. Mostly because it required you to play different when you were bursting.

And not different by giving you more haste, more resources or higher numbers. It was different because you played arround the anti-synergy of mind spike and dots to create burst windows where those anti-synergies were irrelevant and you were "unleashed". And the way you felt when you were unleashed was really great also. You spammed a lot of instant casts and saw huge numbers. It felt really great.

[Price]

Clarity of Power all day. Was so sad when they took that away. Love the concept of assaulting your enemy's mind(s), hate DoTs. Second place would probably be TBC mana battery.

do agree on that , that was the playstyle i loved most.

[bluesock]

Do you feel that the Cataclysm style did not do a good job of being a dot based style?

What would you say were the biggest differences between wrath and cataclysm playstyle?

Do you believe removing pandemic and reintroducing snapshotting would translate well today?

Thanks for the feedback.

I think cataclysm was the beginning of the end for shadow priest.

The introduction of Mind Spike is the core of the problem for mostly everything, it removed dots promoting a non dot playstyle.

That is the biggest difference between wrath and cata as well as not doing a good job of being dot based.

Also I have never been a fan of the orbs cause I don't want to be another combo point ranged rogue spec, I think we have enough of that.

I don't think removing pandemic and introducing snapshotting again would be a good idea, its an out dated mechanic and we should under no circumstance go backwards.

Same with people wanting devouring plague (even tho I would love it if it was back) and / or orbs back its jut not the way to go, we need to move forward.

That's not to say I want void form absolutely not, this weird mix of a failed verison of cop is an unfixable unbalanceable mess that needs to go fast.