Anyone feel sorry for the Pandaren

[Darkeon]

I really enjoy my Pandaren Brewmaster; However it does feel out of place whenever I play with him. Blizzard definitely needs to insert a bigger pandaren population into the factions - unless they are doing it purposedly, trying to forget these actually exist.

[Deleted]

I wish we could have some badass Pandaren Garrosh-type guy in the lore. And in Goblin too. Like muscular goblin warrior guy with an eye patch. Wouldn't that be amazing?

[RangerDaz]

After goblins and worgen's new models, Pandaren are probably next in terms of new models.

I believe that this would be a great opportunity to make faction specific pandaren and give them more faction identity (if this faction system survives Battle for Azeroth's ending), like making new extra visuals (like Blood Elves' golden eyes or Night Elves' dark eyes) that have a more faction representation. For example horde pandaren having more tribal haircuts and features, while alliance pandaren having a more Eastern Kingdoms or Night Elf / Draenei inspired visuals.

There should be more presence and confrontation between the two Pandaren faction leaders, maybe even in Battle for Azeroth. It could happen even in a warfront, why not?

[Toppy]

The problem is the way Blizzard implemented them. They made them basically a Kung-Fu panda joke race that's only about beer. If you look up some of Samwise Didier's Pandaren artwork you can see that he actually made them pretty savage. If they had made them that way they would have been far more popular (these artworks actually were the reason people wanted Pandaren to be playable in the first place). But Blizzard being Blizzard decided they instead needed a popculture reference as a playable race and now we have a race that's only about beer. And the class heavily influenced by them of course aswell.

Incredibly wrong actually. Samwise's more "savage" Pandaren art largely didn't start coming about till after MoP, prior to that they were blatantly asian themed, and of course they predate Kung-fu panda by a significant amount of time.

IE: You're just talking ignorant shit.

[Deleted]

I believe whole pandaren race should be exterminated, maybe make few undead pandarens after and keep them like jesters to entertain Banshee Queen, but that's the best possible outcome for that pathetic joke of a race.

[Sangris]

Incredibly wrong actually. Samwise's more "savage" Pandaren art largely didn't start coming about till after MoP, prior to that they were blatantly asian themed, and of course they predate Kung-fu panda by a significant amount of time.

IE: You're just talking ignorant shit.

I never said Kung-Fu Panda was first. However, Pandaren were not fleshed out until after Kung-Fu Panda released and they did take influences from there. I might be wrong on Samwise's artworks coming before them, because I don't care about the race in the slightest.

It doesn't change the fact that they could have made them a much better race than this joke they are now.

[Aeula]

Nah. They deserve it.

[Price]

No, fuck pandas. Adding them in the first place was a mistake.

I kinda agree with that never got why we needed panda's to begin with.

[Voltsmasher]

Pandaren fit just fine. We have vulpera running around and actual mutant turtles. Not to mention gnomes from the start.

As for their beer loving lore a couple of neutral quests about finding the best brew in the world each expansion would probably fix a bit of their obscurity

[Deleted]

Would have been nice if at some point they have Talanji go to Panda land on a diplomatic mission. Or a ally panda Vs horde panda quest chain. Bring back the wandering isle as a zone or something

[Deleted]

Well... we know it's cause the devs just didn't get around to it. Atm it seems to finally be the turn for gnomes to shine. Pandarens will come back around eventually.

[ashblond]

I don't, because there are still groups/factions/organizations of pandaren back in Pandaria still completely separate from the Alliance or Horde.

If the current Alliance-aligned and Horde-aligned pandaren are unhappy with the state of affairs, why couldn't they just go to their ancestral home? Lore wise, I understand they came from the wandering turtle but Pandaria should be stable by now... lore wise.

Why don't the orcs go back their ancestral homeland in draenor? It is pretty stable by now. There is no reason for them stay on Azeroth fighting alliance, making all these wars, instead of going back to Nagrand.

[Toppy]

I never said Kung-Fu Panda was first. However, Pandaren were not fleshed out until after Kung-Fu Panda released and they did take influences from there. I might be wrong on Samwise's artworks coming before them, because I don't care about the race in the slightest.

It doesn't change the fact that they could have made them a much better race than this joke they are now.

If you think that Pandaren took influence from Kung Fu Panda in MoP then you didn't watch Kung Fu Panda and are just mindlessly parroting what other stupid people have said as the Pandaren have really nothing akin to Kung Fu panda unless "Chinese themed" is something Kung Fu Panda invented.

[snackfeat]

Why don't the orcs go back their ancestral homeland in draenor? It is pretty stable by now. There is no reason for them stay on Azeroth fighting alliance, making all these wars, instead of going back to Nagrand.

Someone have not done the maghar orc scenario.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

The Pandaren problem is simple, they are not the Pandaren we were promised.

To put it succinctly they should have been less Chinese-y and more Mongolian-y.

Does that make sense? They should have been less Kung-fu Panda and more Wu-shu Furbolg.

When you understand this core issue you understand why they don't fit in very well in WoW, and why they are they probably belong in the Alliance only.

[Projectmars]

I think Blizz feels bad for adding them.

for adding in a race that had been requested for years?

- - - Updated - - -

Someone have not done the maghar orc scenario.

If I never do that scenario I can pretend it doesn't happen.

[Re4leader1]

I feel sorry they exist. Just retcon the whole race

[Toppy]

The Pandaren problem is simple, they are not the Pandaren we were promised.

To put it succinctly they should have been less Chinese-y and more Mongolian-y.

Does that make sense? They should have been less Kung-fu Panda and more Wu-shu Furbolg.

When you understand this core issue you understand why they don't fit in very well in WoW, and why they are they probably belong in the Alliance only.

Care to explain? Orcs are already quiet Mongolian themed, nor were the Pandaren at any point such. Are you trying to say that only #savage races fit to WoW?

[AngerFork]

If I look at this solely from a lore perspective, not really. If anything, it's largely their fault (or at least the fault of their leadership) that they are in this boat still.

In the quest "A New Fate" (where the Pandaren choose sides), Aysa says "...there are yet choices that should not be accepted. Risks that are too dangerous to ever be taken. Decisions that I cannot forgive..." and Ji says "This day seems to be one full of hard decisions. Having the courage to make them is gravely important, for the sake of us all." You can see where both sides should be on fire about this.

For Aysa, I'd think going into Lordaeron without a better plan than Jaina on a flying boat seems like a risk too dangerous to be taken, particularly given how much loss occurred there. But you could also argue that what Sylvanas did to Teldrassil is a decision that cannot be forgiven.

Ji on the other hand might see Teldrassil as a hard decision made by Sylvanas, particularly under her argument of ensuring the Horde lasts rather than just buys time until the Alliance gets stronger. Or he might instead see Sylvanas gaining and growing and realize that challenging her to Mak'gora is a hard decision that he needs to make for the sake of the Horde.

It would be nice to see Blizz explore these options further, but from a lore perspective, it makes me think that the Pandaren leadership on both sides is content to drink beer and let each side fight.

All that said, if my theory about the final "Allied Race" being the other faction's races holds true, the Pandaren would be a perfect place to start. Perhaps the Pandaren come together to fight the real threat, or see their old friends wounded on the battlefield and band together cross faction, or just Ji & Aysa remind their respective leadership (more likely Saurfang/Baine than Sylvanas) what the heart of their faction truly is.

[Toppy]

If I look at this solely from a lore perspective, not really. If anything, it's largely their fault (or at least the fault of their leadership) that they are in this boat still.

In the quest "A New Fate" (where the Pandaren choose sides), Aysa says "...there are yet choices that should not be accepted. Risks that are too dangerous to ever be taken. Decisions that I cannot forgive..." and Ji says "This day seems to be one full of hard decisions. Having the courage to make them is gravely important, for the sake of us all." You can see where both sides should be on fire about this.

For Aysa, I'd think going into Lordaeron without a better plan than Jaina on a flying boat seems like a risk too dangerous to be taken, particularly given how much loss occurred there. But you could also argue that what Sylvanas did to Teldrassil is a decision that cannot be forgiven.

Ji on the other hand might see Teldrassil as a hard decision made by Sylvanas, particularly under her argument of ensuring the Horde lasts rather than just buys time until the Alliance gets stronger. Or he might instead see Sylvanas gaining and growing and realize that challenging her to Mak'gora is a hard decision that he needs to make for the sake of the Horde.

It would be nice to see Blizz explore these options further, but from a lore perspective, it makes me think that the Pandaren leadership on both sides is content to drink beer and let each side fight.

All that said, if my theory about the final "Allied Race" being the other faction's races holds true, the Pandaren would be a perfect place to start. Perhaps the Pandaren come together to fight the real threat, or see their old friends wounded on the battlefield and band together cross faction, or just Ji & Aysa remind their respective leadership (more likely Saurfang/Baine than Sylvanas) what the heart of their faction truly is.

Honestly I feel the most major issue is that the Huojin is an actual philosophy that makes sense. While Tushui is just outright stupidity. Hell it's outed as stupid from the get go: When Ji blew up that ship on the turtle, sure it did a lot of harm but it also solved the problem and they were able to remedy the aftermath. Aysa had no plan, the turtle was already dying, and she critisises Ji for what? Taking a bold move to save the turtle while she was incapable of doing anything?

Huojin is a great philosophy for Horde.

"Always challenge. Always question. In the pursuit of a greater good, inaction is the only wrong."
- Master Zurong

The Path of the Huojin is marked by practical and decisive action. Followers of this discipline believe that morals and ideals are not absolute, but change with circumstances.

As such, a Huojin Master must remain flexible in his or her thinking, always evaluating the greater good.

It essentially states that you have to be flexible in thought and bold in action. That's Horde to the T. Sure it backfires at times, but its better than sitting around doing nothing.

Tushui though?

"Discipline is not a war that is won. It is a battle, constantly fought."
- Master Feng

The way of the Tushui is one of a principled life. Followers of this discipline believe there is a moral certainty to the world: one correct path of right and wrong.

These Values are immutable, and must be preserved no matter what the cost. Even if it means self sacrifice, or painful losses in the pursuit of a higher ideal.

This philosophy states that you should better yourself for the sake of it. But then it soon falls apart by stating that there is a concrete good and evil. Its all about the self, but from what we see in the start zone it also means you ignore anything not the self. Not only does it put everyone into neat little "Good" and "Evil" boxes, it also encourages selfishness: focusing on the self.

The problem is the Huojin philsophy also focuses on the self, but it focuses on the self as it is able to better everything. What this does is leave the Huojin as a morally flexible, helpful, and generally well meaning philosophy. And Tushui as inflexible, ignorant, and selfish.