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  1. #41
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Honestly at this point I'm not deeply attached to either character.

    Sylv's burned children alive in Teldrassil, I don't really care what her reasoning or justification is for that, it's weak and villainbat-y.

    Saurfang needed Anduin to get him to take action, when he could've just left when Rokhan and the others were there, but not gone with them.



    Regardless of what happens with them, the Horde was still complicit in burning Teldrassil and I feel they ruined the WC3 arc and the Horde's 'theme' of "Monster races but not pure evil, there's more to them than that." between what they did with Garrosh and WoD ("DRAENOR IS FREE..." fiasco), and now Sylv


    Is anyone else just... done?
    Sadly, the last few characters I was attached to are dead (Tirion, Varian, Cairne). The few left will never get the big choices (Gazlowe, Gelbin, Baine, Lor'themar).
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  2. #42
    Nope, I am awaiting the outcome.
    If I didn't care about the story, you wouldn't find me playing the game. Tried playing other MMORPGs without giving a shit about the story, couldn't do it.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    But but the highs and lows man the highs and lows lol
    Don't work when you get nothing but lows for several patches and expansions in a row.
    Twas brillig

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoris View Post
    Do we throw in "Don't you guys have phones?" for good measure?
    "Don't you guys own Chronicles?!"

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Prabog View Post
    She built up a Forsaken nation out of nothing, she has repeatedly proven her cunning. For her to do the Wrathgate is the height of tactical and strategic folly, something Sylvanas would simply never do. That being said, if Blizzard has decided to portray her as a moron, so shall it be.
    Sylvanas is also the one who missed a chance to kill Arthas because she wanted to make him suffer and the one who let Genn limp away in Stormheim because she was too upset over losing the lantern to finish him off or something. And the one who got outplayed in early Silverpine.

    I think the writers flubbed here and she didn't order the wrathgate attack. But Sylvanas is only as clever as the writers want her to be at a given moment.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagoth Ur View Post
    Now we're just missing "You think you don't like the story, but you actually do" for ultimate memeing.
    did you forget about Danuser?
    all the memes about forsaken players, embodied.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That depends on the final outcome - if she did indeed order it, and it was successful in killing the Lich King, both the Alliance and the Horde might honor her as the utmost of heroes and the death of a few dozens of soldiers (including Dranosh and Bolvar) might've been otherwise forgotten. It didn't work, however; and so it would be time for her to swing into damage control with the Battle for the Undercity proceeding directly afterward.

    Personally I think she was aware of and approved the development of the Blight (I think that's pretty much a given), but she didn't okay Putress' use of it nor was she was aware of Putress and Varimathras' working together with an eye to overthrow her government.
    Well, it was only a few dozen soldiers in the cutscene. If memory serves Chronicles states that both factions lost thousands of soldiers to the Blight. Sure, killing the Lich King would have softened the blow a lot, but even within the Horde it would (or should at least) still have remained a very controversial move.

    But this is all in the realm of speculation since I doubt Sylvanas actually ordered the Wrathgate, and the Blight was apparently only powerful enough to give Arthas a cough.

  8. #48
    I am Murloc! Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ello View Post
    I've pretty much given up on the Horde. This faction is well and truly lost.
    I feel like a total frigging conartist when I'm recruiting allied races.

    "Welcome aboard, assholes! You're stuck with us forever! Oh, by the way, I wouldn't recommend sending any of your best soldiers (although it WILL be demanded of you and you WILL obey) because they will likely get blight dumped on their heads by us. (:"

    Ever think about why Zul wanted to join G'huun over the Horde? He's probably a WoW veteran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prabog View Post
    She built up a Forsaken nation out of nothing, she has repeatedly proven her cunning. For her to do the Wrathgate is the height of tactical and strategic folly, something Sylvanas would simply never do. That being said, if Blizzard has decided to portray her as a moron, so shall it be.
    It depends on why she did the Wrathgate, though. If she did, there may be an interesting reason behind it. Of course, this is blizzard, so I don't expect that.

    Ideally, the reason for orchestrating the Wrathgate event would be something along the lines of:

    - Get rid of Varimathras, he's obviously a bad egg just waiting to spoil and it was probably with ease that Sylvanas had Putress convince Varimathras to turn on her and help with the fake "mutiny"

    - Get rid of any unknown dissenting Forsaken in her city. If her pawn Putress cries "mutiny" and many join, fine, she wants to be rid of them anyway and the Horde and Alliance will do that for her

    - Shitting all over the Alliance and some of their most looked-to heroes like Bolvar while being able to claim she didn't want that (something something crushing hope)

    - Pretty good chance at killing Arthas with the Blight without being responsible for the amount of damage she would be causing in the process(which didn't work out in the end but still may have been the main reason)

    - She didn't have any beef with Garrosh yet that I know of, but he was overseeing operations in Northrend, so fucking up his assault on the Wrathgate may have been the cherry on top for her


    Any of the above with perhaps the exception of sticking to Garrosh is a reasonable excuse for orchestrating the Wrathgate event, really. My money is on wanting to kill Arthas so damn bad that she was willing to do what the Horde and Alliance wouldn't allow - kill the whole fuckin' battle field if it meant killing Arthas too.

    Whats best is, Sylvanas literally got away with it scott-free if she DID do it. Most players had no idea until Afraisabi mentioned it in the interview.

  9. #49
    Deleted
    I'm at a point where I don't trust any of WoW's storytelling anymore. The retcons, the contradictions, the convenient plotholes. Consequentially I'm numb to the entire Sylvanas versus Saurfang thing as well, because I can't see it go anywhere interesting nor meaningful in the long term.

  10. #50
    Such is the purpose of the "screw y'all I'm going on vacation" ending. Make two characters morally questionable enough and some will just pick neither.

  11. #51
    Mechagnome
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    Was a huge Sylvanas fangirl, and an even bigger Night elf fangirl, however in this position they forced me to actively hate one thing I loved because it utterly screwed over the other thing of worth to me in the franchise... and now there is Saurfang. So at this point I literally don't care what they do anymore as there is no way they can placate my misery at their direction.

  12. #52
    Honestly, the story for BFA is just so poorly written. I'm very surprised the way they've done it.

    Edit: Oh and please kill Saurfang, he's overrated and a boring character.

  13. #53
    After the Battle of Lordaeron I gave up on my expectations of consistency, logic or story development. Now I'm in it for the 'cool factor', just want to see what they'll think of next just to get some reaction from the audience.

    I really want to see Saurfang lose mak'gora against Sylvanas and get raised as undead though, because that would be so over the top. Sylvanas can justify it both as a punishment for treason against Horde and as a necessity for being in war and Saurfang being the best warrior they have. Totally morally grey, right? And it would also be such a honorless act against a Horde member which crosses the red line of Horde ethics. Nobody cares if you burn night elf children alive but everyone will be outraged if you kill and desecrate a beloved Horde hero and that includes fans too.

  14. #54
    I like the story so far, it's not bad written. People judge Sylvanas acts but forget that without the fire she started, Kul'Tiras would have been erased by Void worshippers and pirates, Jaina would be dead and G'huun would have been released from its prison.

  15. #55
    Epic! Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoris View Post
    But who knows - maybe they'll do a total 180 that totally blindsides me and makes me care about it, but until then I remain unenthusiastic.
    Trouble with a 180, is that it leaves the story at the other end of the crazy spectrum, where in we get another Kerrigan story ark of Good>Controlled Evil>self motivated chaotic>Evil>Misunderstood>Paragon of good and God of existence..... For me that's much much worse, because if they had just ended up dead it would end on somewhat believable story arc, and who knows maybe they can have some redemption during it. Conversely if they out of nowhere become the leader of all that is good, everyone forgives them for everything they did, and the actual moral/lawful leaders get overshadowed for the "Redeemed" character. That ends up ruining everyone's story, instead of just the one person....

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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfRider View Post
    I like the story so far, it's not bad written. People judge Sylvanas acts but forget that without the fire she started, Kul'Tiras would have been erased by Void worshippers and pirates, Jaina would be dead and G'huun would have been released from its prison.
    ...? How would Jaina be dead? Also If the war hadn't started Zul would have never been freed from Stormwind, and thus never been able to start the cue that ended with G'huun being free...

  16. #56
    The Horde can have a civil war, kill each other, make Baine Warchief, or vaporize into nothingness for all I care. How do you come back from starting a war that ended in genocide? There's no Garrosh who they can pin all the blame on; they were all complicit in so much death and destruction. I dont know what's more stupid. Sylvanas being an unstoppable moustache twirling villain who finds new ways to cross the line, or Saurfang's quest to restore honor for himself and his Horde in spite of being just as guilty as Sylvanas. Either way, the Alliance is going to be forced to put aside their grievances once again, and join forces with their conquerors for the greater good. Anduin will probably build a statue to Saurfang in the middle of Stormwind Trade.

  17. #57
    I’d accept Sylvanas living and a WoD ending if it just meant this expansion could be over already.

    How about an evil time dragon expansion or something?

  18. #58
    Stood in the Fire Dudas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That depends on the final outcome - if she did indeed order it, and it was successful in killing the Lich King, both the Alliance and the Horde might honor her as the utmost of heroes and the death of a few dozens of soldiers (including Dranosh and Bolvar) might've been otherwise forgotten. It didn't work, however; and so it would be time for her to swing into damage control with the Battle for the Undercity proceeding directly afterward.

    Personally I think she was aware of and approved the development of the Blight (I think that's pretty much a given), but she didn't okay Putress' use of it nor was she was aware of Putress and Varimathras' working together with an eye to overthrow her government.
    If she did order it is Varimathras morally gray for trying to oppose her "tyranny" with his own?

    The retcon is so retarded it's not even fun trying to defend or make it work.

    It's just another stupid retcon just to add stuff on the "Let's make both factions hate another warchief. Again."

  19. #59
    It is a F^&%in game. If you really care about the goodness of the leader of the race of the character you are playing in a fantastic game, then you should truly consult a specialist.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2018-11-14 at 04:31 AM. Reason: Received Infraction

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    Trouble with a 180, is that it leaves the story at the other end of the crazy spectrum, where in we get another Kerrigan story ark of Good>Controlled Evil>self motivated chaotic>Evil>Misunderstood>Paragon of good and God of existence..... For me that's much much worse, because if they had just ended up dead it would end on somewhat believable story arc, and who knows maybe they can have some redemption during it. Conversely if they out of nowhere become the leader of all that is good, everyone forgives them for everything they did, and the actual moral/lawful leaders get overshadowed for the "Redeemed" character. That ends up ruining everyone's story, instead of just the one person....

    - - - Updated - - -



    ...? How would Jaina be dead? Also If the war hadn't started Zul would have never been freed from Stormwind, and thus never been able to start the cue that ended with G'huun being free...
    How would Jaina be dead? Have you seen her Warbringers video? Have you played Alliance warcampaign?
    At the end of the Warbringers video she says that she's going back home and she wasn't talking about Stormwind.
    When she first step foot in Boralus, she's condemned by her mother (influenced by Lady Ashvane).
    The only reason why she's alive in 8.1 is because Genn Greymane was on her ship in 8.0 because Alliance was seeking Kultirans' help.
    The only reason why Genn decided to get the Kultirans is because Alliance assaulted Lordaeron and Jaina found them right on time.
    If Sylvanas didn't burn Teldrassil, Lordaeron Battle wouldn't happen and Jaina would have come back to her "Homeland" alone.

    Zul, on the other side, didn't have to be on Zandalar to make G'huun free. He started that plan years ago after the Cataclysm.
    Without the Horde, Rastakhan would have been fooled and assassinated by his own Council and the last seal would have been broken, but the Zandalari would have been invaded by the Blood Trolls.

    We don't know if Zul did anything to end in Stormwind prison on purpose, foreseeing the fate of the battle of Lordaeron. But he didn't need us to achieve his plan, in fact it's very strange that he went with Talanji, because she was suspecting that the council was plotting against her father and she was looking for help.

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