"we need Anduin because he embodies anti-toxic masculinity!

[Magnagarde]

Unfortunate he is a lost cause just like many characters on this expansion and I hope the current writers got some new vision foward or takes more feedback like they did with the night warrior scenario.

I honestly don't know whats worse for a writer to do at this point; that she took a character that was somewhat buyable (as I said, I can imagine foolish pacifism being a thing) and completely ruined it by revealing the entire agenda behind why he is who he is or that she uses an entire franchise to push her own agenda and is so open about it.

I could buy and understand the story of a kid growing up pampered in a castle, being tutored by this millenia-old sage tentacle alien that is a pacifist himself and the kid ending up a pacifist in return. But when she writes him the way she does and then tags his name together with that post, then that's a big fat yikes.

[Zandalariprelate]

I honestly don't know whats worse. That she took a character that was somewhat buyable (as I said, I can imagine foolish pacifism being a thing) and completely ruined it by revealing the entire agenda behind why he is who he is or that she uses an entire franchise to push her own agenda and is so open about it.

You know a lot of people just though this was just buzz word for marketing, so another "groups" will take interest in Anduin and to be honest he was boring but at least likeable in the sense you knew where he will stand but him becoming the voice of reason when he is barely 18 years is purely comedical. To be honest this kind of thing will bite them more later but considering we survived with Metzenfest(killing Illidan and Arthas so early was a bad decision) and Knaak trying to push Maiev into Illidan 2.0, mary sue Varian, I still have hope things will go for the better.

[bloodmoth13]

Its one thing to be gentle, hell a lot of characters are beloved for that, but its another to be so fucking compromising, inhumanly understanding and flawless. Hell hes shown to care more for the horde than their own warchief #factionpride.

This is a story about faction war, its not an interesting story when only one faction is playing it. The writing is so fucking horrible because the alliance arent allowed to be written with flaws other than being too good for this world, which leaves all of the conflict to be driven by the horde, even when its completely against their interests. ESPECIALLY when its completely against their interests.

They keep re-using the same formula over and over, and it wasnt even good the first time.

Anduin doesnt need to be sylvanas levels of shit writing to be flawed either. Blizz should have done battle for lordaeron first with anduin being the aggressor. he has a ton of justifiable reasons for doing so (reclaiming for the lordaeron refugees who lost theramore, calia, genn greymane getting vengeance and retaiking gilneas) and the forsaken have every reason to defend. When the undercity is 'conquered' sylvanas gets revenge and over-reacts by torching teldrassil.
We have one faction reclaiming former territory to mend, and the other taking an eye for an eye. Both fit in with each factions mindset and drive the war in a believable way that makes players ask who was right? both factions can be proud (or ashamed) and war is now unavoidable.

Instead blizz are pulling out all the stops to make players hate sylvanas by shitting all over her character and trying their best to make us ok with SoO 2.0. we've already lost what, 3 faction leaders to the alliances 1? then traveled back in time to kill off all other horde warchiefs? its tiresome.

[Magnagarde]

Baine is more of a "Spineless" example, as shown during the battle when he yells at Sylvanas that she left Saurfang to die, and she retorts that shouldn't he go take care of the people escaping instead and he just backs down.

In all fairness, Baine doesn't have "Auntie" to swoop in and do his job (I know Anduin didn't at the time either, but I surmise his character counts on her support and the support of the entirety of the Alliance). Baine doesn't have a number of racial leaders backing him up either, at least not the number Anduin does and most importantly, the Horde is divided ideologically, whereas the Alliance is unified in its demand for justice and retribution over what happened at Teldrassil.

Baine is in a much, much tougher position than Anduin. Anduin had to make the choice that was the most logical choice to make for a leader (with unquestionable support from all sides).

[Kithelle]

Except that's not what she said at all. She didn't say masculinity is bad. She was saying that men should be chastised for showing emotion. That's pretty hard to disagree with.



That's sort of how hereditary monarchies work though.

But that is what happens with all of the super masculine (Yeah right) Anduin haters...then call him a cry baby and gay. Sad really...

[Magnagarde]

Fired for an opinion on her personal twitter? That's very open minded of you now isn't it

What's being open minded got to do with this? She's a professional writer and should leave her personal opinion out of a franchise. It is crystal clear her personal views have largely impacted the way Anduin is portrayed.

She writes a character, then she shows what she thinks men should be on her "personal twitter" (read can't hold back telling others how progressive she is and how much more progressive everyone needs to be) and then goes back to the writing table, writing Anduin the way she wants him to be. She centers the character around her views and in turn the whole story gets centered around the character. I don't care if she wants all men to be castrated and posts about it on twitter, as long as she leaves it out of the franchises she's involved in.

Numerous people lost their jobs and even had their careers ruined for posting personal views because they were to the disliking of a portion of the audience on social media. Golden should not be an exception if there's equality for all.

[Vulcanasm]

https://mobile.twitter.com/christieg...86529281839104

Thrall too!

Yep, I agree with her.

[Kithelle]

Just pay attention, wow has been leaning towards women leadership. Almost every new relevant character is female.

Taelia fordragon will fall in love with Anduin but he will go out of the closet soon enough.

Just because you had to question your sexuality when you saw him doesn't make him gay...I'm sorry you're not enough of a man that you need to puff up your chest with so much toxic bile that you need to call him gay...doesn't make it true.

[Magnagarde]

And how are those mutually exclusive ?

Not to mention that anduin is pretty much a caricature.

What he meant to say is that stereotypical takes are okay as long as they're made in defense of arguements that are against stereotypes!

It all makes sense now!

Anduin is basically a nice guy who got handed the job of king whether he wanted it or not. Trying to live up to father's legacy, because Dad said "what a king must do". I see him as a bit of an anti-hero, an everyman, if everyman was basically good and had good intentions. Anduin doesn't always know what to do, but he's always trying to do the right thing. For me, that makes him easy to identify with.

The point is that all of that falls flat when the author behind this character's arc posts her personal views about why we need more characters like the one she's writing, directly opening the eyes of the audience of the franchise affiliated to the character and revealing to them why this character is the way it is.

This is when a character and the story surrounding that character lose artistic value, quality and credibility, because it ends up being a self-insertion of a, in this example, very bad agenda that has a negative reputation among those it ends up reaching.

This is possibly the worst thing any writer can do as it alienates parts of the audience from the franchise and characters involved.

[Kreo]

We already have Kul-Tiras full of powerful women, not really the shocker they hire on SJW basis.

[stomination]

He stood up to garrosh twice unarmed, stood up to saurfang, stood up to sylvanas once by him self. He’s A lot of things but spineless isn’t one of them.

He did things that would normally equate to one dead kid. But alas.....writers and plot holes.

[Mormolyce]

Wow look at all the people insecure in their sexuality who are triggered as fuck by this.

Funny thing is, Anduin's character is basically just "decent human being".

They grow up to be pussyies too that wemon can push around and belittle. I know what your up to and I won't give in. SUCK IT!!!!!

Oh boy that was close, he almost stole your manhood!

[stomination]

Just because you had to question your sexuality when you saw him doesn't make him gay...I'm sorry you're not enough of a man that you need to puff up your chest with so much toxic bile that you need to call him gay...doesn't make it true.

Well this is the community that was trying to ship him with the male dragon.

[Mormolyce]

Just pay attention, wow has been leaning towards women leadership. Almost every new relevant character is female.

...What game have you been playing?

[Zandalariprelate]

Its one thing to be gentle, hell a lot of characters are beloved for that, but its another to be so fucking compromising, inhumanly understanding and flawless. Hell hes shown to care more for the horde than their own warchief #factionpride.

This is a story about faction war, its not an interesting story when only one faction is playing it. The writing is so fucking horrible because the alliance arent allowed to be written with flaws other than being too good for this world, which leaves all of the conflict to be driven by the horde, even when its completely against their interests. ESPECIALLY when its completely against their interests.

They keep re-using the same formula over and over, and it wasnt even good the first time.

Anduin doesnt need to be sylvanas levels of shit writing to be flawed either. Blizz should have done battle for lordaeron first with anduin being the aggressor. he has a ton of justifiable reasons for doing so (reclaiming for the lordaeron refugees who lost theramore, calia, genn greymane getting vengeance and retaiking gilneas) and the forsaken have every reason to defend. When the undercity is 'conquered' sylvanas gets revenge and over-reacts by torching teldrassil.
We have one faction reclaiming former territory to mend, and the other taking an eye for an eye. Both fit in with each factions mindset and drive the war in a believable way that makes players ask who was right? both factions can be proud (or ashamed) and war is now unavoidable.

Instead blizz are pulling out all the stops to make players hate sylvanas by shitting all over her character and trying their best to make us ok with SoO 2.0. we've already lost what, 3 faction leaders to the alliances 1? then traveled back in time to kill off all other horde warchiefs? its tiresome.

I think they planned that because Metzen was even more surprised than the fanbase for the burning of teldrassil and he worked on that storyline and the cinematic pretty much paints the horde in a totally 180° different than what we got, also the chuck norris meme orc needed some hug and motivational speech to get out of his emo phase and we are getting another setup for the next 2 warchief to die because Sylvanas is almost confirmed and if Saurfang takes the seat, he will endure 1 or 2 expansion before lady Thrall takes control only to do another faction war if Yrel joins the alliance for convenience(her dialogue about burning all the cities of he alliance only because they have draenei on them is pretty much foreshadow)

[PaladinBash]

Anduin seems spineless and weak because his dad was the warrior, he's the priest. He isn't exactly going to go around beating the fuck out of people like his dad. I give shit to him a lot and he deserves a lot of it but people naturally go too far and buy into the memes. He's a softcock but look who else is? Saurfang. Saurfang is wayyyy more softcock. Talks about dying with honour every 5 seconds but that's a bit strange for a dude that's still alive and old at that. His son didn't say "nah it's k Arthas and wander off to talk about his honour", he leapt right in. Died instantly, of course, but that's not the point. Anduin at least has the excuse of being a weak weedy son of a cool dad, what's Saurfang's excuse? What's Baine's? They're even softer yet and while Blizzard never develops Horde characters unless they're made into villains, the only notable things Baine has done is be weak and timid.

By comparison to the other characters of his level, Anduin is not even that bad. It's just that any Light-aligned character exists to be irrelevant (Turalyon, Yrel), job (Turalyon again and Tirion) or be evillllllll and never get a redemption story (Scarlet Crusade, possibly alt Draenei). I'd love a Light-aligned character to start stomping on dicks and move the story forward. It's not going to happen though because Blizzard cannot into Lawful Good.

[Mormolyce]

Great....now I have to wipe the vomit from my screen. Explains why so many male characters in wow are total crap now. This is why I don't prefer female authors tbh.

Male characters are total crap if they don't demonstrate "toxic masculinity"?

This is your brain on bigotry.

[Daevelian]

I think it's quite safe to say that this community has hit rock bottom. Whining over a character having more traits than HUR DUR SMASH ENEMY DRAG WOMAN BACK TO MAN CAVE.

Congratulations, the problem lies not with the story, it lies with you and your inability to accept that the world has moved past your caveman ideals.

[ZazuuPriest]

the problem i have is that women are celebrated for anything they do or anyway that they are. A girl wants to be strong and outspoken... good for her, she wants to be timid and sensitive, thats ok. But if a man is strong and outspoken hes a toxic male. We only celebrate beta boys who like to cry. What a joke

[Wildmoon]

Female characters have really become powerful since Golden came along. Not sure if it's a good or bad thing.