Shadow Changes

[Budong]

*NEW* Mind Blast has two charges baseline.

*NEW* Shadow Word: Death baseline.

*NEW* Mind Spike baseline. Mind Spike blasts the target for Shadow damage, but extinguishes your Shadow damage-over-time effects from the target in the process.

*NEW* Vampiric Embrace restores mana to a nearby healer in addition to its current effects.

*NEW* Void Bolt baseline spell that consumes Insanity.

*MOVED* Misery moved to 15 level talent row.

*MOVED* Void Eruption removed from baseline and moved to 45 level talent row. Now is a cast that consumes Insanity to deal AoE damage.

*NEW* Reaper of Souls added to 45 level talent row.
Shadow Word: Death is now castable on targets below 35% health, and always generates Insanity as though it killed the target.

*MOVED* Auspicious Spirits moved to 45 level talent row.

*MOVED* Twist of Fate moved to 75 level talent row.

*MOVED* Mindbender moved to 75 level talent row.

*MOVED* Surrender to Madness moved to 90 level talent row. No longer has the random penalties for using it.

*MOVED* Dark Void moved to 90 level talent.

*MOVED* Void Form removed from baseline and moved to 100 level talent row. When you take this talent you enter Void Form by casting Void Bolt. Void Form then acts as it did in Legion.

*NEW* 100 level talent Clarity of Power. Your Mind Spike, Mind Sear, and Shadow Word: Death deal 40% additional damage to targets not affected by your Shadow Word: Pain or Vampiric Touch. Also reduces the cooldown on Mind Blast by 3 sec and makes it instant cast.

*NEW* 100 level talent Devouring Plague. Consumes Insanity to deal Shadow damage and then additional damage over X sec. Heals the caster for 100% of damage done.


New talent tree would look like:

Fortress of the Mind--------Shadowy Insight--------Misery
Body and Soul--------------San'layn-----------------Intangibility
Void Eruption---------------Reaper of Souls---------Auspicious Spirits
Last Word-------------------Mind Bomb--------------Psychic Horror
Shadow Crash--------------Mindbender--------------Twist of Fate
Surrender to Madness------Void Torrent-------------Dark Void
Void Form-------------------Clarity of Power---------Devouring Plague

I will spend whatever amount of money that is necessary to get you put in charge of Shadow Priest development at Blizzard ASAP.

[Quack27]

I will spend whatever amount of money that is necessary to get you put in charge of Shadow Priest development at Blizzard ASAP.

Haha well thank you. I know there are plenty of issues still with what i have proposed, but i do like to discuss with people to keep improving the idea so that i can present something very solid.

I know a lot of people think it's pointless and hopeless, but to me even just the discussion of improvements is enjoyable, and if the community ultimately created change that would of course be amazing.

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Yeah, but unfortunately they don't seem capable of actually simming their own talents, so we'll just end up in a situation where void form is either mandatory or garbage and there's still no real "choice" if you are doing any competitive content.

Yes balance can definitely impact choice for certain, however this discussion is more about finding satisfying, enjoyable playstyles.

[Budong]

Haha well thank you. I know there are plenty of issues still with what i have proposed, but i do like to discuss with people to keep improving the idea so that i can present something very solid.

I know a lot of people think it's pointless and hopeless, but to me even just the discussion of improvements is enjoyable, and if the community ultimately created change that would of course be amazing.

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Yes balance can definitely impact choice for certain, however this discussion is more about finding satisfying, enjoyable playstyles.

I used to love Shadow Priest but ever since Void form was introduced I just can't play it. I have tried each expansion but usually can't get past the first few levels. I always just finish leveling with all the catch up mechanisms at the end, although at the moment my SP is stuck in Legion. Not even Knaifu can entice me to keep trying

[Malix Farwin]

I can break down the issues with your suggestions but at a core its breaking tiers that either aint broke or just needed better tuning.

First Tier - You are puting a multi Target Talent in a ST tier, the exact opposite of what Blizzard wants from talent design.

*The first tier needs to mostly stay the same with the only change being a slight buff to FoTM

Third Tier shouldn't change at all, out of all our talent tiers its the most balanced one with a use for each talent in various situations

Fifth and 6th tier should be where you see the biggest changes if yoou wanted to make any changes to begin with.

Fifth tier this is where you can fit reaper of souls while making SWD baseline while keeping AS

6th Tier should be your CD tier and should be able to both synergy with all 3 tier 100 talents and have unique situational use. So mindbender and void torrent should still be there while LI should be merged with Void Form and replaced with Power Infusion. This makes PI for multi-target/AoE fights, Void Torrent good for priority dmg, and mindbender good for ST fights with each talent having specially synergy with each build.

The obious roblem with having surrender to madness where you have it is that it pretty much assumes you are taking Void Form.

[Ophenia]

First Tier - You are puting a multi Target Talent in a ST tier, the exact opposite of what Blizzard wants from talent design.

You're right, we should have instead Shadow Crash on the same line as Shadow Word: Death. Both have the same strength right ?

Blizzard may have said that but there isn't any spec which is balanced this way.

[Knslyr]

It was the only real cooldown we ever had, many priests don't like shadowfiend or like it as the semi pet like in cata/wod endcontent.

Its not that everyone wants the exact dark archangel from cata back its more of a synonym for shadow priest cooldown =p
Many prefer a buff as cooldown over a pet that sometimes decides to hunt butterflies instead of attacking the only target available.
Also there was a time when we could have both. Why not again?^^

Also it looks badass. They should just give us those wings in some form as cosmetic as before.

[Malix Farwin]

You're right, we should have instead Shadow Crash on the same line as Shadow Word: Death. Both have the same strength right ?

Blizzard may have said that but there isn't any spec which is balanced this way.

If you actually read you would of seen i said SWD should be baseline firstly. Second, yea there are situations live i would take SWD over Shadow Crash and vise versa so what exactly is your ping there.

Aside from the 100 tier list the rest of these suggestions are actually awful.

[Quack27]

If you actually read you would of seen i said SWD should be baseline firstly. Second, yea there are situations live i would take SWD over Shadow Crash and vise versa so what exactly is your ping there.

Aside from the 100 tier list the rest of these suggestions are actually awful.

In your two posts, essentially all of the focus is on the talent changes. Do you like or dislike the baseline changes (mind blast baseline 2 charges, swd baseline, making voidform a talent instead of baseline, etc)?

Since your first posts says most rows do not need fixing and just tuning, does that mean you are pretty happy with how Shadow plays currently but just think it needs some tuning?

I understand that talent philosophy that Blizzard has mentioned, but I do not tend to agree with it (and they often seem to not agree with it themselves). You even mention having Reaper of Souls and Shadow Crash in same tier which would go away from that philosophy.

For lower non utility/cc tiers, I generally have more of a philosophy of choosing 3 of the 4:
Push a button more often
Have less button pushing
Keep the button pushing the same
Extra button

And even that is pretty general.

That general philosophy difference addresses most of what you said outside of Tier 6 and 7.

Tier 6 is already a cooldown tier (as you mentioned it should be), all have different situational use (as you also mentioned), and all synergize with Tier 7 as far as I can tell.

Why do you say S2M assumes Voidform? S2M generates more Insanity which means longer Voidform if you choose it, more Voidbolts if you choose CoP, and more Devouring Plagues if you choose Devouring Plague. Also gives you that sweet casting while moving effect.

Tier 7- Thanks

[Ophenia]

If you actually read you would of seen i said SWD should be baseline firstly. Second, yea there are situations live i would take SWD over Shadow Crash and vise versa so what exactly is your ping there.

Aside from the 100 tier list the rest of these suggestions are actually awful.

But you're also saying that "there cannot be a single-target talent on a multi-target row because Blizzard doesn't want it". But you failed to realize that Blizzard put SWD on the same row as Shadow Crash and they never had any problem with that, the proof being they didn't took the opportunity of this ""rework"" to correct this.

[Grumpy Old Man]

...me wants...

[Malix Farwin]

But you're also saying that "there cannot be a single-target talent on a multi-target row because Blizzard doesn't want it". But you failed to realize that Blizzard put SWD on the same row as Shadow Crash and they never had any problem with that, the proof being they didn't took the opportunity of this ""rework"" to correct this.

SWD is not a traditional ST trait though, its value is in encounter where there are frequent adds that will die often(examples being vectis and fetid if you are not zerging fetid). in fact, you use AS over SWD in ST and for multi-target and SC for stack persistant AoE encounters. Basically the tree as a whole all has talents to deal with Adds.

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In your two posts, essentially all of the focus is on the talent changes. Do you like or dislike the baseline changes (mind blast baseline 2 charges, swd baseline, making voidform a talent instead of baseline, etc)?

Since your first posts says most rows do not need fixing and just tuning, does that mean you are pretty happy with how Shadow plays currently but just think it needs some tuning?

I understand that talent philosophy that Blizzard has mentioned, but I do not tend to agree with it (and they often seem to not agree with it themselves). You even mention having Reaper of Souls and Shadow Crash in same tier which would go away from that philosophy.

For lower non utility/cc tiers, I generally have more of a philosophy of choosing 3 of the 4:
Push a button more often
Have less button pushing
Keep the button pushing the same
Extra button

And even that is pretty general.

That general philosophy difference addresses most of what you said outside of Tier 6 and 7.

Tier 6 is already a cooldown tier (as you mentioned it should be), all have different situational use (as you also mentioned), and all synergize with Tier 7 as far as I can tell.

Why do you say S2M assumes Voidform? S2M generates more Insanity which means longer Voidform if you choose it, more Voidbolts if you choose CoP, and more Devouring Plagues if you choose Devouring Plague. Also gives you that sweet casting while moving effect.

Tier 7- Thanks

Well lets start with Tier one. The main strength to having double mind blast charges is to synergize with Void Form. It is actually counter intuitive with CoP and DP.

Now as for Tier 6 its the same with DP, getting more DPs off means you will just be clipping the DoT because you will get it too often which again is counter intuitive to DP design. Second, S2M is about staying in void form longer, not getting more abilities off how would you even make it work when the other 2 options no longer have VF.

Tier 5 if you actually read what i said you wouldnt be asking this question so instead of repeating myself i will just copy/paste what i said " Fifth tier this is where you can fit reaper of souls while making SWD baseline while keeping AS"

[Dastreus]

Change title to "proposed shadow changes" or something like that. Super disappointed these aren't real.

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I used to love Shadow Priest but ever since Void form was introduced I just can't play it. I have tried each expansion but usually can't get past the first few levels. I always just finish leveling with all the catch up mechanisms at the end, although at the moment my SP is stuck in Legion. Not even Knaifu can entice me to keep trying

Void form wasn't introduced until Legion.

[Deleted]

Make Void Eruption replace Void Bolt and make in an instant cast.

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Also shuffle talents a bit so aoe talents are on the same row, Dark Void instead of Reaper of Souls.

[huerohueroxxx]

How much time need blizzard to make changes? why ptr changes cant be applied today in live? why they promises reworks in 8.1 and these reworks seems awful?

[Dilbon]

Clarity of Power was awesome for priest healers who occasionally did shadow, no need to learn complex stuff.

[Budong]

Void form wasn't introduced until Legion.

Yes I'm aware. I never said otherwise. I didn't start playing my Shadow priest during WoD until after Legion pre-patch.

[Quack27]

SWD is not a traditional ST trait though, its value is in encounter where there are frequent adds that will die often(examples being vectis and fetid if you are not zerging fetid). in fact, you use AS over SWD in ST and for multi-target and SC for stack persistant AoE encounters. Basically the tree as a whole all has talents to deal with Adds.

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Well lets start with Tier one. The main strength to having double mind blast charges is to synergize with Void Form. It is actually counter intuitive with CoP and DP.

Now as for Tier 6 its the same with DP, getting more DPs off means you will just be clipping the DoT because you will get it too often which again is counter intuitive to DP design. Second, S2M is about staying in void form longer, not getting more abilities off how would you even make it work when the other 2 options no longer have VF.

Tier 5 if you actually read what i said you wouldnt be asking this question so instead of repeating myself i will just copy/paste what i said " Fifth tier this is where you can fit reaper of souls while making SWD baseline while keeping AS"

First I would still ask again; what do you think about the baseline changes as you have not talked to about them much?

2 Mind Blast charges is definitely good for Voidform, however I was thinking about it with Shadowy Insight. Maybe instead of baseline it should be part of Shadow Insight?

With S2M and Devouring Plague you are making a lot of assumptions and not just looking at the general idea. You are assuming for example that DP would be near 100% uptime. If it is balanced in a way that Devouring Plague is not up as often, then S2M maybe the only time you do have 100% uptime.

S2M is currently primarily about staying in Voidform longer, but ultimately it gives more of a resource, so now you can just spend that resource more often such as for more Voidbolts.

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Make Void Eruption replace Void Bolt and make in an instant cast.

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Also shuffle talents a bit so aoe talents are on the same row, Dark Void instead of Reaper of Souls.

Yea it kind of depends on the philosophy. I personally am good with the idea that baseline Shadow can be above average at cleave and single target, but a little below average on AoE (the whole strengths and weaknesses thing).

I think that to shore up a weakness, a spec should need to take multiple talents to become above average, hence splitting up what talent tiers do. Essentially, becoming good at AoE is certainly possible, but you have to take all the talents to do it.

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Clarity of Power was awesome for priest healers who occasionally did shadow, no need to learn complex stuff.

Good feedback, that is not something I ever considered about it.

[Voidwielder]

Get SWD out of Talent tree and bring back 1 min VF cycle.

Perfect.

[Quack27]

Get SWD out of Talent tree and bring back 1 min VF cycle.

Perfect.

So I am guessing Legion was your favorite version of Shadow? What about it did you enjoy so much?

[Voidwielder]

So I am guessing Legion was your favorite version of Shadow? What about it did you enjoy so much?

It was punishing as hell, it pushed me to perform like crazy and when I did get a nice 55-60 stack cycle, it felt rewarding and good. Struggling, pushing and anticipating my next moves at 35-40 stacks to get more was thrilling, I was on the edge, always.

I did not care about the numbers, since for me progress is current HC, whichever key is the highest and that's it.

I am not oblivious to the downsides it had. In lower M+ it was really useless and the ramp up meant lost time which made us unappealing in the PUG world. But I did not care, really. The playstyle felt good, I loved it.

I honestly think it would work quite nicely if they made it a 40 second cycle or so, it would be perfect for pushing +10 keys, especially on Fortified weeks. It would do everything you need, strong executes, strong AoE and we had a talent that gave free SWD charge on some condition, we'd be the best Spawn killers in the game. Of course, the season is ending.
But whatever the next affix will be, it will be trash centred again. Which is where we would shine. As for boss fights? A long VF cycle would be perfect for most bosses - at least half of them. Really only Freehold would be bad, rest have at least 2 bosses where movement is somewhat limited and a long burn is possible.